battlespork

Let's remember they've been working on missions since before 0.24. That's 6-7 months to push out a skeleton of a system -- so it isn't like this is some fresh feature they barely had time to work on. 
 
Personally, I don't really get it. I don't have hours to spend slowboating and am not interesting in paying for a game just to AFK. It's not a screen saver.  
 
The idea that the warp restrictions were done to "encourage pvp" makes very little sense to me. How is that a balanced game design? Investing hours slowboating is enough of a cost without the risk of total loss (+ lost collateral) -- if there's going to be risk, it must be balanced relative to the cost. Time is always the most important currency in an MMO. 
 
Slowboat hauling isn't going to incentivize new players to renew their subs.
 
There are gamers that like this sort of slow experience...but not enough to build an MMO out of in 2021. It's like their design mentality is permanently stuck in 2003. 
 
That said, at least the skeleton of a mission system is finally out! Hopefully they can iterate on it quickly now that the foundations are done. 

The only thing that saves this burning dumpster fire besides removing all ill gotten schematics or a rollback is to flat come out now and say there will be a full wipe before release. Seriously NQ, you need to own this one way or the other. Either tell us all it doesn't matter cause it's all getting nuked downed the road anyway, or act like professionals and fix it.

Most of us paid money for a subscription under different impressions. And for the last few months (the entire time I've been playing) crafting anything and everything you want has been part of the game. For most of us that's part of the appeal. Now if the devs want to change that it's perfectly fine, but they, and you, need to understand that they will become subject to the same market forces that they claim they want in their games. Specifically that people will pay for a product that they enjoy, and they wont pay for a product they don't enjoy.

Now it doesn't matter what the original intentions for the game were. The bottom line is that if your customers are demanding something and you ignore them, your customers will leave and give their money to somebody else. If this update is popular then the revenue stream for the game will remain intact, and even grow. If it's unpopular then it will shrink. If it shrinks long enough then the company goes out of business and the game goes away. Shouting at the people paying for a product that they don't understand that they were never intended to enjoy the product the way they were is only going to help push paying customers away.
 
You also don't seem to understand that the devs are trying to force us to participate in the market without first establishing a good revenue stream. We're a few days into this update and I'm still trying to find ways to interact with the market in a meaningful way. I haven't seen much. If the intent was to be able to manufacture something basic for a little while to generate revenue until we can afford to set ourselves up for more complicated manufacturing then the system is already broken. Basic Pipes are selling for half the cost of the materials to make them. Now I'm not a super savvy market type guy and I haven't put a ton of time into this (I can't, I have real things in the real world I have to do) so it's possible (probable) that I've missed some opportunities. That doesn't change the fundamental problem: lack of a revenue stream.

People don't participate in markets unless they have disposable income. Right now there doesn't seem to be much disposable income, so there isn't going to be much participation in the markets. Right now what I am seeing for myself and hearing from others is that the only people who can really *do* anything in the game are those of us who already had a bunch of "stuff" sitting around and some capital built up. I can afford the schematics I need to make my fuels and honeycombs, which means I can still build a few ships and start flying around. Allowing me to actually buy the schematics I need to make fuels. People who haven't been playing as long are just stuck with nothing to do.

And like has been mentioned ad nauseum there are blockbuster games and expansions coming out right now. Elite Dangerous Odyssey is available for pre order, and already does everything this game claims to be a goal minus the designing your own constructs stuff. Which you claim is not actually supposed to be a thing. Cyberpunk is out. Pissing off your customers is one thing, but pissing them off when there are a bunch of new shiny things on the market to distract them is a *really* bad idea.

The *only* thing that makes this game stand out at all is being able to design and build our own constructs. If that was never supposed to be available for any but the elite few, then why would anyone not just keep playing what was already out there? AGAIN, it does NOT matter what the original intentions were. Not all unintended consequences are bad. If your paying customers really like one of the accidents in the game development, consider it a happy accident and move on. Time will tell, and subscribers will vote with their dollars.

Most of us paid money for a subscription under different impressions. And for the last few months (the entire time I've been playing) crafting anything and everything you want has been part of the game. For most of us that's part of the appeal. Now if the devs want to change that it's perfectly fine, but they, and you, need to understand that they will become subject to the same market forces that they claim they want in their games. Specifically that people will pay for a product that they enjoy, and they wont pay for a product they don't enjoy.

Now it doesn't matter what the original intentions for the game were. The bottom line is that if your customers are demanding something and you ignore them, your customers will leave and give their money to somebody else. If this update is popular then the revenue stream for the game will remain intact, and even grow. If it's unpopular then it will shrink. If it shrinks long enough then the company goes out of business and the game goes away. Shouting at the people paying for a product that they don't understand that they were never intended to enjoy the product the way they were is only going to help push paying customers away.
 
You also don't seem to understand that the devs are trying to force us to participate in the market without first establishing a good revenue stream. We're a few days into this update and I'm still trying to find ways to interact with the market in a meaningful way. I haven't seen much. If the intent was to be able to manufacture something basic for a little while to generate revenue until we can afford to set ourselves up for more complicated manufacturing then the system is already broken. Basic Pipes are selling for half the cost of the materials to make them. Now I'm not a super savvy market type guy and I haven't put a ton of time into this (I can't, I have real things in the real world I have to do) so it's possible (probable) that I've missed some opportunities. That doesn't change the fundamental problem: lack of a revenue stream.

People don't participate in markets unless they have disposable income. Right now there doesn't seem to be much disposable income, so there isn't going to be much participation in the markets. Right now what I am seeing for myself and hearing from others is that the only people who can really *do* anything in the game are those of us who already had a bunch of "stuff" sitting around and some capital built up. I can afford the schematics I need to make my fuels and honeycombs, which means I can still build a few ships and start flying around. Allowing me to actually buy the schematics I need to make fuels. People who haven't been playing as long are just stuck with nothing to do.

And like has been mentioned ad nauseum there are blockbuster games and expansions coming out right now. Elite Dangerous Odyssey is available for pre order, and already does everything this game claims to be a goal minus the designing your own constructs stuff. Which you claim is not actually supposed to be a thing. Cyberpunk is out. Pissing off your customers is one thing, but pissing them off when there are a bunch of new shiny things on the market to distract them is a *really* bad idea.

The *only* thing that makes this game stand out at all is being able to design and build our own constructs. If that was never supposed to be available for any but the elite few, then why would anyone not just keep playing what was already out there? AGAIN, it does NOT matter what the original intentions were. Not all unintended consequences are bad. If your paying customers really like one of the accidents in the game development, consider it a happy accident and move on. Time will tell, and subscribers will vote with their dollars.

I have to agree with several of the posters here - this game is not turning out to be in the bill of goods we were sold.  The sandbox elements are being replaced with a much more hard core economic model which definitely appeals to some (look to Eve which I also played for many years) but, honestly, I already have a job which pays better and is more fun than this is to play so *why would I keep paying a subscription* for a less fun job?

So, this my concrete feedback is for the devs:
* If you are eliminating the sandbox-ness - that is, the ability for people to be able to *largely* produce at least some level of ships and bases entirely on their own or within a small group for fun - then explicitly come out and say so, and make it clear in your marketing literature.  It was not clear to me when I signed up, and obviously it was not clear to many other players, thus the brouhaha.
* Publish a concrete plan for your economy.  This change feels *haphazard* at best, it's so massively disruptive.
* Remove this game from *public* beta.  It isn't ready for that yet.  This is either late alpha or early, private-beta level given the kinds of qualitative changes you are making.  I feel you are unnecessarily risking your consumer base by confusing and disappointing them.
 
As a fellow game developer, I truly wish you the best of luck, and I'll keep watching but from the sidelines for now.

Most of us paid money for a subscription under different impressions. And for the last few months (the entire time I've been playing) crafting anything and everything you want has been part of the game. For most of us that's part of the appeal. Now if the devs want to change that it's perfectly fine, but they, and you, need to understand that they will become subject to the same market forces that they claim they want in their games. Specifically that people will pay for a product that they enjoy, and they wont pay for a product they don't enjoy.

Now it doesn't matter what the original intentions for the game were. The bottom line is that if your customers are demanding something and you ignore them, your customers will leave and give their money to somebody else. If this update is popular then the revenue stream for the game will remain intact, and even grow. If it's unpopular then it will shrink. If it shrinks long enough then the company goes out of business and the game goes away. Shouting at the people paying for a product that they don't understand that they were never intended to enjoy the product the way they were is only going to help push paying customers away.
 
You also don't seem to understand that the devs are trying to force us to participate in the market without first establishing a good revenue stream. We're a few days into this update and I'm still trying to find ways to interact with the market in a meaningful way. I haven't seen much. If the intent was to be able to manufacture something basic for a little while to generate revenue until we can afford to set ourselves up for more complicated manufacturing then the system is already broken. Basic Pipes are selling for half the cost of the materials to make them. Now I'm not a super savvy market type guy and I haven't put a ton of time into this (I can't, I have real things in the real world I have to do) so it's possible (probable) that I've missed some opportunities. That doesn't change the fundamental problem: lack of a revenue stream.

People don't participate in markets unless they have disposable income. Right now there doesn't seem to be much disposable income, so there isn't going to be much participation in the markets. Right now what I am seeing for myself and hearing from others is that the only people who can really *do* anything in the game are those of us who already had a bunch of "stuff" sitting around and some capital built up. I can afford the schematics I need to make my fuels and honeycombs, which means I can still build a few ships and start flying around. Allowing me to actually buy the schematics I need to make fuels. People who haven't been playing as long are just stuck with nothing to do.

And like has been mentioned ad nauseum there are blockbuster games and expansions coming out right now. Elite Dangerous Odyssey is available for pre order, and already does everything this game claims to be a goal minus the designing your own constructs stuff. Which you claim is not actually supposed to be a thing. Cyberpunk is out. Pissing off your customers is one thing, but pissing them off when there are a bunch of new shiny things on the market to distract them is a *really* bad idea.

The *only* thing that makes this game stand out at all is being able to design and build our own constructs. If that was never supposed to be available for any but the elite few, then why would anyone not just keep playing what was already out there? AGAIN, it does NOT matter what the original intentions were. Not all unintended consequences are bad. If your paying customers really like one of the accidents in the game development, consider it a happy accident and move on. Time will tell, and subscribers will vote with their dollars.

Most of us paid money for a subscription under different impressions. And for the last few months (the entire time I've been playing) crafting anything and everything you want has been part of the game. For most of us that's part of the appeal. Now if the devs want to change that it's perfectly fine, but they, and you, need to understand that they will become subject to the same market forces that they claim they want in their games. Specifically that people will pay for a product that they enjoy, and they wont pay for a product they don't enjoy.

Now it doesn't matter what the original intentions for the game were. The bottom line is that if your customers are demanding something and you ignore them, your customers will leave and give their money to somebody else. If this update is popular then the revenue stream for the game will remain intact, and even grow. If it's unpopular then it will shrink. If it shrinks long enough then the company goes out of business and the game goes away. Shouting at the people paying for a product that they don't understand that they were never intended to enjoy the product the way they were is only going to help push paying customers away.
 
You also don't seem to understand that the devs are trying to force us to participate in the market without first establishing a good revenue stream. We're a few days into this update and I'm still trying to find ways to interact with the market in a meaningful way. I haven't seen much. If the intent was to be able to manufacture something basic for a little while to generate revenue until we can afford to set ourselves up for more complicated manufacturing then the system is already broken. Basic Pipes are selling for half the cost of the materials to make them. Now I'm not a super savvy market type guy and I haven't put a ton of time into this (I can't, I have real things in the real world I have to do) so it's possible (probable) that I've missed some opportunities. That doesn't change the fundamental problem: lack of a revenue stream.

People don't participate in markets unless they have disposable income. Right now there doesn't seem to be much disposable income, so there isn't going to be much participation in the markets. Right now what I am seeing for myself and hearing from others is that the only people who can really *do* anything in the game are those of us who already had a bunch of "stuff" sitting around and some capital built up. I can afford the schematics I need to make my fuels and honeycombs, which means I can still build a few ships and start flying around. Allowing me to actually buy the schematics I need to make fuels. People who haven't been playing as long are just stuck with nothing to do.

And like has been mentioned ad nauseum there are blockbuster games and expansions coming out right now. Elite Dangerous Odyssey is available for pre order, and already does everything this game claims to be a goal minus the designing your own constructs stuff. Which you claim is not actually supposed to be a thing. Cyberpunk is out. Pissing off your customers is one thing, but pissing them off when there are a bunch of new shiny things on the market to distract them is a *really* bad idea.

The *only* thing that makes this game stand out at all is being able to design and build our own constructs. If that was never supposed to be available for any but the elite few, then why would anyone not just keep playing what was already out there? AGAIN, it does NOT matter what the original intentions were. Not all unintended consequences are bad. If your paying customers really like one of the accidents in the game development, consider it a happy accident and move on. Time will tell, and subscribers will vote with their dollars.

Most of us paid money for a subscription under different impressions. And for the last few months (the entire time I've been playing) crafting anything and everything you want has been part of the game. For most of us that's part of the appeal. Now if the devs want to change that it's perfectly fine, but they, and you, need to understand that they will become subject to the same market forces that they claim they want in their games. Specifically that people will pay for a product that they enjoy, and they wont pay for a product they don't enjoy.

Now it doesn't matter what the original intentions for the game were. The bottom line is that if your customers are demanding something and you ignore them, your customers will leave and give their money to somebody else. If this update is popular then the revenue stream for the game will remain intact, and even grow. If it's unpopular then it will shrink. If it shrinks long enough then the company goes out of business and the game goes away. Shouting at the people paying for a product that they don't understand that they were never intended to enjoy the product the way they were is only going to help push paying customers away.
 
You also don't seem to understand that the devs are trying to force us to participate in the market without first establishing a good revenue stream. We're a few days into this update and I'm still trying to find ways to interact with the market in a meaningful way. I haven't seen much. If the intent was to be able to manufacture something basic for a little while to generate revenue until we can afford to set ourselves up for more complicated manufacturing then the system is already broken. Basic Pipes are selling for half the cost of the materials to make them. Now I'm not a super savvy market type guy and I haven't put a ton of time into this (I can't, I have real things in the real world I have to do) so it's possible (probable) that I've missed some opportunities. That doesn't change the fundamental problem: lack of a revenue stream.

People don't participate in markets unless they have disposable income. Right now there doesn't seem to be much disposable income, so there isn't going to be much participation in the markets. Right now what I am seeing for myself and hearing from others is that the only people who can really *do* anything in the game are those of us who already had a bunch of "stuff" sitting around and some capital built up. I can afford the schematics I need to make my fuels and honeycombs, which means I can still build a few ships and start flying around. Allowing me to actually buy the schematics I need to make fuels. People who haven't been playing as long are just stuck with nothing to do.

And like has been mentioned ad nauseum there are blockbuster games and expansions coming out right now. Elite Dangerous Odyssey is available for pre order, and already does everything this game claims to be a goal minus the designing your own constructs stuff. Which you claim is not actually supposed to be a thing. Cyberpunk is out. Pissing off your customers is one thing, but pissing them off when there are a bunch of new shiny things on the market to distract them is a *really* bad idea.

The *only* thing that makes this game stand out at all is being able to design and build our own constructs. If that was never supposed to be available for any but the elite few, then why would anyone not just keep playing what was already out there? AGAIN, it does NOT matter what the original intentions were. Not all unintended consequences are bad. If your paying customers really like one of the accidents in the game development, consider it a happy accident and move on. Time will tell, and subscribers will vote with their dollars.

Most of us paid money for a subscription under different impressions. And for the last few months (the entire time I've been playing) crafting anything and everything you want has been part of the game. For most of us that's part of the appeal. Now if the devs want to change that it's perfectly fine, but they, and you, need to understand that they will become subject to the same market forces that they claim they want in their games. Specifically that people will pay for a product that they enjoy, and they wont pay for a product they don't enjoy.

Now it doesn't matter what the original intentions for the game were. The bottom line is that if your customers are demanding something and you ignore them, your customers will leave and give their money to somebody else. If this update is popular then the revenue stream for the game will remain intact, and even grow. If it's unpopular then it will shrink. If it shrinks long enough then the company goes out of business and the game goes away. Shouting at the people paying for a product that they don't understand that they were never intended to enjoy the product the way they were is only going to help push paying customers away.
 
You also don't seem to understand that the devs are trying to force us to participate in the market without first establishing a good revenue stream. We're a few days into this update and I'm still trying to find ways to interact with the market in a meaningful way. I haven't seen much. If the intent was to be able to manufacture something basic for a little while to generate revenue until we can afford to set ourselves up for more complicated manufacturing then the system is already broken. Basic Pipes are selling for half the cost of the materials to make them. Now I'm not a super savvy market type guy and I haven't put a ton of time into this (I can't, I have real things in the real world I have to do) so it's possible (probable) that I've missed some opportunities. That doesn't change the fundamental problem: lack of a revenue stream.

People don't participate in markets unless they have disposable income. Right now there doesn't seem to be much disposable income, so there isn't going to be much participation in the markets. Right now what I am seeing for myself and hearing from others is that the only people who can really *do* anything in the game are those of us who already had a bunch of "stuff" sitting around and some capital built up. I can afford the schematics I need to make my fuels and honeycombs, which means I can still build a few ships and start flying around. Allowing me to actually buy the schematics I need to make fuels. People who haven't been playing as long are just stuck with nothing to do.

And like has been mentioned ad nauseum there are blockbuster games and expansions coming out right now. Elite Dangerous Odyssey is available for pre order, and already does everything this game claims to be a goal minus the designing your own constructs stuff. Which you claim is not actually supposed to be a thing. Cyberpunk is out. Pissing off your customers is one thing, but pissing them off when there are a bunch of new shiny things on the market to distract them is a *really* bad idea.

The *only* thing that makes this game stand out at all is being able to design and build our own constructs. If that was never supposed to be available for any but the elite few, then why would anyone not just keep playing what was already out there? AGAIN, it does NOT matter what the original intentions were. Not all unintended consequences are bad. If your paying customers really like one of the accidents in the game development, consider it a happy accident and move on. Time will tell, and subscribers will vote with their dollars.

You don't have to have LvL 5 but if you want the freedom to craft what you want when you want without having to rely on others then yes you do. With the introduction of uncommon, advanced and rare versions of most elements, people aren't going to spend millions on lower tier schematics just to craft something that no-one will buy so you will need to go for the top end schematics to stand a chance at making the ridiculous amount of currency needed to buy schematics.
Working back up to crafting everything myself will take time yes but it was already taking a huge amount of time mining ores, waiting for production to finish, working out designs around the limited voxel system.  In the last 3-4 months of Beta, playing the way I have( the way I wanted to)I amassed a grand total of 6 million. This will buy nothing and the only alternative now is to buy everything from the markets.  I started playing the game as a Space sandbox, building ships exploring and alike, now  the driving goal is just to make currency in the game. This is just boring as hell and will dictate anyones playstyle. If you can't afford an item you can't have it, so you grind, eventually make something and try to sell it, if it doesn't sell your screwed. Analzye the market you say? What fun!
As for being 'supposed' to do something, where does it say that? Where does it say that Omni factories don't belong in the game if someone wants them? This just makes it a more linear experience, step 1. Do this, Step 2. Do this etc  and a boring grindfest playing the markets which are going to be completely controlled by larger Orgs either scalping high prices or undercutting smaller crafters because they have a surplus of elements.  So much for the Sandbox idea and 'Dream it, Build it'. 
 

I'd also like to add that from a purely economic standpoint markets are *already* worth our time for most items. I'm sure that I'm not alone in feeling that I avoid markets primarily because of travel time and dealing with the lag at the market. I'd rather spend a few hours setting up my factory to make things than deal with making trips to the market.
 
Currently in real life Amazon is proving that forcing people to travel to brick and morter stores is a failing business model. Surely in the distant future this will remain true..

I'd also like to add that from a purely economic standpoint markets are *already* worth our time for most items. I'm sure that I'm not alone in feeling that I avoid markets primarily because of travel time and dealing with the lag at the market. I'd rather spend a few hours setting up my factory to make things than deal with making trips to the market.
 
Currently in real life Amazon is proving that forcing people to travel to brick and morter stores is a failing business model. Surely in the distant future this will remain true..