Underhook

Yeah, I did a video on Mu and calibration etc and my conclusion on calibration is that it is a slot machine (pokies). It gives the illusion of skill and choice but really its mostly luck. Slot machines (I believe) return about 75% of the money you put in. Thats enough for most people to feel like they are winning and their choices matter. I would not be at all surprised if 100% calibration is achieved in about 75% of cases. Its clever, if it were skill based we would simply do the same thing every time for the 100% guaranteed skill calibration. The system they came up with helps keep players engaged. Which is what gambling is all about. That said, I'm not saying its good game play at all.

I thought I'd better warn people that the adjacency bonus is only profitable it certain circumstances and one of those circumstances is high ore price. My experience is limited but what I have been able to do so far: The total amount of ore in a hex seems to depend on the tier of the ore, so on a planet like Maddis we might have total ore of around 500 to 550 mostly T1 On Ion and Symeon where I have done about 130 scans the total ore count is more like 270. For example my best hex are Ion coal 4lph, limestone 3lph, acanthite 262 lph. and on Symeon cery similar with Garnerite 262. My skills: Mining unit manager: All level 4 except for cal charge vol which is level 3 Improved mining unit manager: Extraction eff level 3, cal charge opt level 2, cal charge eff level 4 Test case 1: So, my site on Symeon has 2 mining units mining garnerite T3. and I have one adjacent hex for testing. Each unit has 100 % calibration Base rate is 106 but the are each producing 112lph. This leaves the hex with a pool of 38 remaining (not worth another unit cal charge?) so 2 units at 112 = 224 ,so, adjacency bonus of 10% = 22.4 lph so 22.4 lph x 24 hours = 537.6 x 7 days = 3,763 litres per week Yester day I put 20K of garnerite on the market for 391 close to the bottom price. However right now the price at market 6 is 271 (yes its big litres) So 3,763 litres x 271 quanta = 1,019,773 which gives a profit of 20,000 quanta if the price drops any more it will be a loss. Test case 2: I dont have T1 mining so I have based this on scans from Maddis. The actual scan is Coal 57, Hema 158, Quartz 36 and Baux 280. Now most people would not mine this so lets get rid of quartz (lowest price) and maybe put the coal and quartz numbers into Baux. So our pretend test hex is Hema 158 and Baux 373 ....... fair? Ok in this scenario 3 units on Baux and maybe 2 on Hema 3 on Baux thats 106 x 3 = 318 leaving 55in the pool. Due to my skills though I'm getting 112 per unit = 336 1 on Hema thats 106 x 1 = 106 leaving 53 in the pool. Due to my skills though I'm getting 112 per unit = 112 So 336 + 112 = 448 lph 10% adjacency bonus will provide 44.8 lph x 24 hours = 1075.2 x 7 days = 7,526 bonus litres Current market 6 prices Baux = 55 and Hema = 51 Baux 5,645 x 55 = 310,475 Hema 1,882 x 51 = 95,982 Adjacency bonus on T1 for 7 days nets total 406,457 tax 1,000,000 - 406,457 = loss of 593,543 Conclusion: If you have low mining skills, in most cases avoid adjacency as it will almost certainly be a loss. If you are mining T1 even with maxed mining skills adjacency will still probably be a loss but might work out OK for very large well managed operations. If T1 ore prices triple from current value then a small profit would be possible. Now of course if you are running a big operation on T2 or above where the adjacent hex also have mining units the loss may be less or could even turn a profit. Just do the math 1st. I would hate to see players doing all the work just to go bust. For my purposes I have chosen to have solo sites mining different ores to try and protect myself from market fluctuations. Please feel free to correct any mistakes I may have made and please add any useful information. Good luck space peoples.

Yes, somebody else also suggested a royalty tax. A common method used in the real world for mining and logging

Wow. I guess that makes sense if you have a lot of quanta and I might have done the same. It would seem this update really favours people who have amassed fortunes. At the start of demeter I had 52 million quanta. Now I have around 15 ( spent a lot on MU etc) and ore prices are dropping.

YES people are not dumb. They are smart people who want to keep their job. Management that encourages and fosters yes people is dumb. I was a fairly new arival at a company and I was in a state sales meeting. The general manager expressed his dismay that people were not speaking up in meetings and that we needed more input from the "team". So, the next meeting when he asked for feedback, I gave some. He tore strips off me and told me I was an idiot. He started giving me a funny look because ....... I was laughing uncontrollably.

I (1 account) had 16 territories (not including Sanct) before Demeter and now I have 11 but may need to reduce that to 10 (5 are currently HQ). I dont use adjacency currently as ore prices dont cover the cost. I might get more territory if ore prices go up. I was essentially holding a territory in many planets so I could move depending on wars etc. I didnt realise how far off territory war was. With that said, if ore prices keep dropping I may have to remove them all. I put 20K of garnerite on the market last night at 391 (just a bit higher than the lowest price, this morning the price is 271 (large amount)

I feel this is a good new player experience. It leads us to learning about moving between markets and Sanctuary and Alioth without a ship. It also leads us to realise just how good being able to compact a small ship/racer is. Also I feel you missed learning about some of this stuff because you had friends giving you a ride etc. When we are on our own, with no ship we tend to learn these things before we end up in a bad location.

Yes it will be interesting. Those of us who were building or providing services now have tax to pay and ore to sell. Not sure how many players who never used to sell ore will now be selling ore. The changes in the economy be fun to watch.

Known as a royalty tax which is what many countries charge mining and logging companies

no

Been doing some scanning and the issue you have raised here is major but I would really like confirmation of the problem from a few players. So, is it definitely the case that if our mining rate exceeds the amount of ore in the pool we can not mine? If thats the case it is definitely broken. Why? 1) lets say I find (and I just have) a hex with 105 limestone and 104 acanthine. I am incapable of mining this because my base rate is 106. 2) This means that upgrading our skills to increase our mining rate actually excludes us from mining many sites? So, can anybody else confirm this? Ok, I'm editing this post because I got it wrong. We can still use a mining unit that has more rate than pool available. As far as I can tell the only fault is that the yellow tag is displayed on a working unit. The yellow tag is a good idea on a unit that is not currently turned on as it warns us that the unit is capable of mining more ore than is in the pool but it should not appear on a unit that is already turned on and drawing its maximum.

Who are you asking then?

OK, maybe I'm wrong then. The reason I thought that was. I looked at my unit. Then I upgraded a skill then I looked at my unit again to see what changes each skill was making to rate etc. After doing that a bit I upgraded most skills to level 4. I looked at my unit again and that yellow tag appeared. Also I noticed that my efficiency had dropped from 100% to 95%. I assume the efficiency would go up with next calibration. Anyway back to the yellow tag. I assumed (maybe wrongly) that the yellow tag was indicating that my rate would go up either upon calibration or upon lifting and replacing the unit (yes I was reapplying my skills to the construct). Have you been able to get rid of the yellow tag yet? EDIT Sorry, didnt read your post carefully enough. So you placed it post skill upgrade. Hmmm, I got the yellow box but (im far away now) from memory I had way more in the ore pool that I could possibly draw. Anyway, its for sure an issue that need fixing.

Thats not elaborating

good

An extremely talented youtuber has created a video to help fellow space peoples who may be having difficulties understanding how the new Demeter mining system works. I think his name is Underhook Anyway, so this post is not just a video promotion a couple of important details regarding the new system have become apparent. 1) Calibration skills are extremely important. 2) Adjacency bonus is probably not worth it unless: 2a )you have mining units on every one of those tiles 2b) your calibration skills are very good (since the bonus is applied to the final ore pulled and not the rate) 2c) Ore prices are good. 3) Multiple units do not compensate for poor calibration skills. Lets say our pull rate is 105lph and our ore pool is 220. After calibration with low skills we might actually be extracting 50Lph. However our mining unit is still drawing the full 105 and we still only have 115 remaining to be drawn upon. So the maximum units we can have for that ore is 2. The only way to increase our yield is through calibration and other skills.

I think I know whats happening here. So as I'm sure you know by now your mining unit pulls its full rate from the ore pool even though the actual ore extracted is usually wat less. Your probably saying to yourself I know that but I'm pulling 112 and bauxite has 118 remaining in the ore pool. BUT .... see that little yellow symbol next to your 112L I'm pretty sure that indicates that you have upgraded you skills since you last calibrated this unit. I would not mind betting that your new skills will have you pulling more than 118. Thats why its saying you dont have enough. It is a bumer though that a skill we have to invest in actually ends up reducing the amount of ore we can mine. This does need to be fixed. A unit should be able to operate even if its maximum possible draw is above the available pool.

Not very, you? I live in Australia a country with perhaps some of the strictest consumer law in the world. The Australian ACCC is the only reason STEAM offer a refund for games.

Thanks, I tried looking at the unit and right clicking various options but could not see the cooldown. I am not the most observant person in the world so I probably just missed it. Funny thing with the taxes. If we just put the territory down it seems to give us a week but as soon as we put anything on it it changes to 3 days. So, maybe they did actually think about this and I got heated over nothing.

You can if its alpha

I do not blame you. I came back a couple of weeks ago after a 9 month break and I'm still trying to decide whether or not I wasted my money. I'm treating the current situation as a challenge and see where that takes me. When you say that the developers dont respect our time I agree. I dont think its personal. They have a job to do, which is implement their vision of the game. The big problem they made for them selves (that really causes all the problems) was declaring beta. They should have just launched but left it as alpha, because, well it is plainly alpha, I'm pretty sure the devs know its alpha and they are just treating us players the same way they would normally treat alpha players. Its just that our expectations are that the game is beta, because, they told us it was beta.

I kinda see where your coming from, it seems you thinking about the game in its current state which is very, very far from completition. I suppose the intention (probably the original intention) is that one day orgs will fight for ownership of planets and so, the only players able to live their will be players from the controlling org. When you think about it what did players with bases on Jago think was going to happen to them when territory warfare began and the planet was no longer a safe zone. Now for somebody like Markee Dragon well he might have had a chance with one of the biggest orgs in the game but lone players?

Could you please tell us with some explanation, what you believe is the biggest success of the Demeter patch and what you think is the biggest failure of the Demeter patch.

Thank you Additional question Is there any way to tell how long we have left on cool down?

1 statement and 1question Statement: Its a bit rich charging me 500,000 to put down a TU, then 3 days later charging me 1,000,000 tax when all I want to do is remove the TU I placed in the wrong location but I cant due to cooling off. I guess I'll just abandon the units but it sucks. Question: How long is the current cooling off period for a TU. I think its a week but not sure?