Novean-61657

Ore distribution is fine when combined with Asteroid mining.

Schematics are fine, they are even adding talents to the system... Ores are fine. STU, if you are talking about the Sanctuary Territory Units, they have been fixing that manually for the last month (from what I understood from Deckard during the stream). I do not expect a systematic 'fix' for that as those only are given out once (unless they intend to change that), so manually fixing those would probably be the most efficient use of resources. They are still fixing it, with a release date for 1.1 of December at the earliest, I expect that the STU issues will be resolved way before 1.1 releases... You might not like Schematics and Ore distribution, but it looks like these are not changing, no matter how hard people cry. The markets say way more then crying player could ever say. Prices are good all over!

Decent money in DU: - Industry - Asteroid Mining - Automining - Harvesting - Trading - Mission running - Makings designs of ships/structures and sell the BPCs - Sell tile scans - Do x for y quanta for other players, move stuff, voxel stuff, remove a mountain, etc. - Sell you're 'put down' talents for ships, industry or mining units... There is a TON of ways to make quanta in DU, some more effective then others. You can do casual stuff to make a little quanta, but if you want to scale it up, expect to spend a LOT of time and quanta on it doing the same thing over and over again! Repeating the same thing is boring as F! But in the end it'll often give a big payout... You also do one thing a lot, to safe up for another or doing it BIGGER... You don't want to do any of that, then DU isn't the game for you. Looking at the prices of ore, not just T1, but T2-T5 (the whole spectrum). I'm thinking that ore distribution both on tiles and on asteroids is just fine! I would even go so far as to say that higher tier ores are kinda cheap!

It needs to be GIANT Space Hamsters! Otherwise it doesn't count... 😉 Boo!

My 'solution' for this is to build up a serious stockpile of schematics and just chuck in enough to keep them running for a week... But that's a LOT of quanta being tied up in schematics!

We now have something we didn't have during beta: One use Schematics. I spend about 2 million quanta per day per account on Schematics. And not even talking about taxes on tiles...

This is also my issue. The planets are NOT mentioned at all in the patch notes for 1.1 an 1.2, that is extremely concerning when the time between 'release' and 1.1 is 2-3 months, at this rate the phase 2 planets would only show up around April to June 2023 at the earliest... And that is just Phase 2 planets... The stuff for 1.1 is extremely disappointing as well. I absolutely understand that KS backers should get priority after 6 years (I'm not a backer), but you've got 2-3 months for the patch... I like the Element recycling, wondering on the exact implementation. Schematic skills are a bit Meh! What exactly will those do? Repair units being able to use scrap sounds glorious! Again, the speed of 'feature' updates, bug fixing and support speed is very worrisome!

From the mouth of Deckard during the live stream: T1 bot orders are supposed to refresh, they are currently not, but that will be 'fixed'.

Over the last week I've seen certain people putting boxes over other people's ships. So others can't claim the ships when the construct is abandoned. Today I even saw that on used constructs, people need to do really weird stuff with their voxels to get access to their ships. Apparently some are now so bold as to just box up ships they like... I reported one instance of this happening, but the response time on these kinds of things is so long, that I haven't bothered since. My understanding is that this is not allowed. I've heard others say that this is a banable offense, but I don't know if this is actually the case. And I also wonder if these are just people that are expending a cheap alt, bought with with cheap DAC or a one month sub. If this is a banable offence, NQ please also ban all the known accounts from that person.

Have you actually scanned Madis and Thades completely? What about Jago and Teoma? What about the other outer planets we're expecting over the next couple of months? Why would a (new) player even need a T2-T3 tile? You can far more easily mine T1, sell that and buy your T2/T3 ore, especially for a new player that is the way to go imho. There are almost 260k tiles on Alioth, no way that someone has scanned them all! Less then 15k tiles have been claimed, that's less then 6% of Alioth! Less then 4% has been claimed on Thades... Do some math and think how many man hours would have been spent scanning Alioth to scan it all, how many Territory scanners you would need, when in the last four weeks someone would have had access to one scanner, then two, three, etc.

I wonder how many people are actually working on the ticket backlog. It might be a lot less then we assume... I suspect that tickets are being handled in order of importance and age, how important is your ticket compared to someone that can't log in or other issues that totally block play?

Typical? Maybe not, but many of such players are around and we're just tiny compared to others, especially those that operate collectively in orgs. Are those large numbers? Sure, but certainly not unattainable. It's not so much a 'brag' but more an indication about the immense T1 ore hunger that is in DU, even after 18 months in beta with mega nodes, automining, duping, etc. the amount of T1 ore being bought was huge! What I'm operating at is exponential growth, 99% of what I use is T1, 100% of what I sell is T1. Guess what I auto mine and harvest... You guessed it! T1 ore... For a long while I ran missions to pay for schematics and taxes. Then I started to over produce TCUs and Mining Units L and sell them at market. I now no longer run missions... Knowing how things work is a pretty big advantage for returning players from beta (and even then I get a ton of stuff wrong). But I also am not spending the amount of time on DU I did in beta... I'm not talking about that for no reason, it shows things from my (and others) perspective. My problem with a lot of the comments in the forum (and other places) is misinformation, limited perspective, and/or limited experience. A poster that talks about 10q/L (or less) T1 ore... Do I need to say more? Talk about NPC buy orders at a time when their influence is no longer relevant? Do I need to go on?

You forgot the most important part: "On ALIOTH!"... Open the planet view of the outer planets, look at some of the clusters, take particular not of who owns what... DU is a puzzle, industry is one of the bigger puzzles in DU. Schematics (0.23) required a bit more planning (and grinding for quanta), the current schematics require way more planning, especially when you expand quickly and to higher tier levels. Does the schematics make the game more fun? Not really... At least not for me. It throws even more limits at us, all those limits NQ have introduced since the start of beta instead of expanding the game, they've just removed more stuff and put more limits on it. But it might make DU more playable by smaller groups and single players in later stages of the game. BUT imho DU needs to be around for such an amount of time for that to be noticeable and that might be a problem. During beta we've seen many things that at first look seem OK, until they aren't. Removing things like schematics will impact the game in unforeseen ways, that most people playing now either don't care about (all about me right now) or don't have a clue about what kind of issues that will bring (and happily gripe about those issues when they show up)...

That imho is an absolutely insane motivation. Not only does that not work like that in game(s), it also doesn't work that way in RL. Sure many wars are fought over economic gain, but how many wars had other primary motivations? Nationalism, expansionism, insult, hatred, religion, etc. People are motivated by way more things then economic gain, because economic gain is for many not the goal in life, but a means to an end. If we are only motivated by economic gain, why even play this game? There is no economic gain in it for you. So people pvp in games more often for something else then economic gain, because the pvp loop can often be not as profitable as other loops. Now, if you want to drive territory warfare, you do want to make it worthwhile. To a certain extend the Alien cores do that with the alien goo they give you, you need for things like Warp Beacons... What exactly is territory warfare exactly going to give you? Folks might fight over certain resource flowers, but I expect that the cost of taking it and keeping it far outweighs any economic benefits. There's going to be a LOT of additional mechanics and systems in place before that is ever going to happen, the big issue imho isn't the actual pew-pew, but why even bother beyond pew-pew and that requires game mechanics that are not connected to normal RL motivations. For example, fighting battles, tanking and keeping territory might give you prestige. Prestige could be another currency you can buy stuff with, like org cosmetics or it can give you benefits at certain levels, possibly it would require multiple motivating reward systems in place before it becomes a viable activity... Which could again seriously skew the economics in the game.

T1 ore at 10q and below and using the term 'fools' in the same sentence? I wonder who is who... It is still early game (less then four weeks) and most if not all Alioth T1 NPC buy orders are gone. Yes, there are still hundreds of millions on the starter moons around Alioth. But at the moment it isn't really feasible to fulfill those enmass. Personally I only recently started making larger buy orders (or buying directly) of T1 ore because I only recently had the cash for it. The quanta making machine only recently achieved critical mass, previously all my quanta went to schematics, taxes and a few BPCs (that made my life easier). Now I could spend 10M quanta on T1 ore buy orders. Why is that important? Because I'm not the only one and that directly translates to more competition on buy orders. We're mostly running on a thin safety margin, we don't (yet) have millions of T1 ore in reserve. So if we don't get those buy orders fulfilled the factory stops running, if the factory stops running no product is made, no products to sell. I already noticed stiff competition on Bauxite orders this weekend and now. I'm running ~40 mining tiles (and still expanding) with 120+ T1 autominers and my factories still need more ore (mostly the ore that I'm not mining). I'm also still expanding my factories and any stock isn't sitting on the shelf for weeks (yet, that will happen eventually though). Everyone is still expanding, using mostly T1 products. Initially I was expecting that I would move to the outer planets at the end of the month, but with all the time/gate keeping NQ is doing with the Schematics, I'm not yet there (I can do it, certainly, but not as effective as I expected). Sure there are people and corps that are far beyond my (meager) production capabilities, but there are far more that are not even close to there yet. Eventually I'll move from Alioth to the outer planets, to do T2+ automining and others like me will follow. Less T1 ore in the economy, and more people wanting to buy it, with more funds to buy it. To use it ourselves for building stuff (ever expanding), selling stuff, and trading stuff. At the end of beta I was buying millions (if not tens of millions) of T1 ore at above 25q. How much do you think the bigger orgs and more dedicated players will need? The buy bots will all be gone eventually, unless NQ resets them. I honestly don't see T1 ore for long below 25q (buy orders), with Quartz maybe as an exception... Why spend any rage on this mechanic that we all expected in some form or another.... I'm already happy that they don't respawn after every patch!

Market 6 during early beta was busier then it is now imho. the last six months of beta was pretty much dead due to people not wanting to play in a non-persistent universe (wipe announcement). Yes M6 is busy, yes I sometimes need to go looking for an open terminal. But I've seen situations in beta were there were lines at the terminals... Yes, I want all those planets/moons back. The reason I'm currently active at M6 is because I'm building up my manufacturing/mining capacity. The same situation as early beta, just highly accelerated and more massive. Honestly what's driving me at the moment is the opportunity to move to a new planet when they are re-released. I don't yet know if I go with the second/third wave of planets or wait for the last wave , but colonizing I will do. But I understand that pvpers want a DU 'easy mode'. Less places were people can be, more like shooting fish in a barrel... 😉 I'm more of a pvp avoid-er and I can tell you from beta that more planets/moons means less ambushes as pvp corps can't keep every planet/moon/route interdicted 24/7.

No they don't. What you assume is that in an MMO you can do all content without player interaction, there's a huge flaw in that! Yes, there's an issue with Alien Goo at Alien stations, but that's not what you're talking about. You want ore? Buy it, pick it up (harvesting), auto mine it, asteroid mine it. Each has it's own 'gameplay' loop, you're only focusing on one loop you can't get to do on your own terms... There are issues in DU, many, many issues! This is not one of them...

The roadmap: Seems like Phase 04. I was under the impression they wanted all the planet phases implemented this year. Take this with a kiloton of unrefined salt (as I can't seem to find the specific references and refuse to spend a huge amount of time looking it up): End of October: Phase 02 (Sinnen, Sicari, Talemai) End of November: Phase 03 (Simeon, Ion) End of December: Phase 04 (Lacobus, Feli) I feel you're pain, I spend a LOT of beta on Lacobus... And as always, what NQ says and what NQ does can be completely different things... 😉

Some people have DAC from the Kickstarter, others are buying that DAC with ingame quanta, others paid less then €60/year/account during early beta and bought a couple of years for that price... I'm curious what the account 'population' will do when all the DACs and the cheap 'prepaid' subscriptions run out...

That is not completely true I seem to remember, there were certain points during beta that some bot orders were refreshed, while others were removed completely (like those for intermediary products). The question becomes, will NQ refresh those same orders during some event or patch? And even if they say NO now, they have a history of doing YES later... But I saw this weekend that the Quartz NPC buy ordere were almost completely gone (800k left at one market)... So it's a bit of a moot point, unless NQ in their infinite wisdom resets the NPC buy orders (intentional or otherwise)...

I just did some math and even doing T1 on Alioth the 'intended way' will net you more profit then 'hacking' it...

@W1zard A couple of points: - With max skills you can get ~50 charges per week, per account. That's 500 charges or 500 times you need to play the mini game per week, during beta I did this (for a while) with 4 accounts (200 charges per week). That took me around 7hrs/week (including travel time, excluding harvesting ore). Here you need to do the mini game, pickup the unit, place the unit, repeat. Doing that 500 times per week is ~17.5hrs, then you need to harvest the stuff, double that amount. That is almost a fulltime job (35 hrs) doing that 'trick' with 10 accounts... - You also make mistakes during the minin game, so that 100% yield isn't 100% (although it can be very close to that after getting the hang of it). - I don't know exactly the numbers on T5 ore (automining yield), but with your numbers and the price of T5 being 330+q/L, I had more profit mining T2 (during beta) the intended way then doing it the 'hacky' way. I need to do some math, but maybe that even can be done with just T1 on Alioth... - If you produce almost half a million T5 per week (extra), what do you think it would do with the prices? They would plumet even more, the market/industry isn't geared to so much T5! Can it be done? Sure! Is it fun/wise? Probably not... Does it limit price coughing, absolutely! 😉

*facepalm* There are 'game mechancis' that you need to consider: #1 If you want high value minerals in pvp space, you don't stay for an hour unless you're heavily armed! #2 Maybe see if there is some sort of frequency for asteroids mining in save space... #3 Be already in place relatively close by when that happens, in a fast ship... #4 Quickly get the higher value ore, take the time with T1 ore in save space... #5 There's a LOT of T1 ore in save space asteroids, if you mine that, sell it, you can buy higher Tech ore from the market... Stop expecting NQ to make a game just for you, they are making a game that (they think) appeals to different kinds of people. Learn how the mechanics work, and play with those! I'm not into pvp myself, but the potential that it is there is what attracted me to DU (and EVE). During beta I spend a LOT of time between planets in pvp space and getting that working correctly is it's own challenge to figure out and I like that puzzle.

IF schematics go, rewards for missions need to go down, significantly. A pretty penny of that missioning income is being spent on schematics, if costs for schematics go, massive inflation is going to happen. Something like 1/10th of current mission rewards. For most starting single players, anything beyond T2 is almost impossible. Prices for T3+ ore on market either inflate or stay the same, but the quanta income goes down significantly... Is the current Schematics 'system' an absolute pain? Absolutely, you need to micromanage even more! Especially for the T1 Product You can go through 500+ schematics per day per machine... But if you pull on just the Schematics 'system' you'll be pulling on other systems as well, missions, challenges, land taxes, buying/selling/trading, etc. NQ is gating 'content' and 'achievements' like crazy! You finally have a bit of quanta, nope! You have to spend it on taxes and Schematics... Back to the quanta grind for you! 😉 If you're playing a single account solo, you'll ALWAYs be at a disadvantage, that is the whole premise of the game. That you can actually single account solo is the reason why I'm even here in the first place. That I'll never compete with large orgs, is not an issue. I don't play EVE to compete with GOONSWARM... Having multiple accounts did make my live in DU easier and allowed me to keep up with what I wanted out of the game. Sure that is 4x the subsription, but back then the subscriptions were cheap! But I heard in the first week there was an org already deploying a Space Core L, which requires so much planning and coordination in that first week, that I can't help but be impressed!

In what kind of fantasy universe did you expect anything else? You know... It's puff, puff, pass. 😉