devu
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Posts posted by devu
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Scrap Mechanic analogy can be found here as NQ is adding those elements when you can use connect tool to create logical interactive connections. Yeah.
Lua is more like low level access to those parts when you can script your own behaviour. It's more like Technic computer mod known from Minecraft. It is also using LUA. It provides an API to each functional block that you can script and use methods it can provide. I believe API itself will be documented and provided so the community can turn this into usable scripts other players can reuse. But because API simply expose functionality of each block then can easily prevent things like automated drilling or things they think may have an negative impact on economy or game play. -
Reddit is the last source of information for me to go to as a gamer around specific game.
There is many other modern ways to stay in touch and prosper as community and have online presence than this.
I don't understand why reddit, only because being quoted by some mainstream media, is perceived as 'more trusted' source of information as any troll can have account there and anywhere else as he see fits.If this very situation started to look like a struggle the best we can do as community is simply ignore it.
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It's funny how definition of Alpha/Beta dev cycles has changed the meaning in people minds once all those early alphas became a norm. If you are victim of steam, please go to Wikipedia and search for what that actually means. I know, it almost feel like traditional old school thing, testing game before is ready and let people in. Why NQ need that?
2 reasons:
1. Very nature of the MMO game of this type. New server technology they have to stress test it and be absolutely sure it will run well on final release. In order to do that they have to bring people in.
2. Make people become a tester at the same time asking for money to help to fund the project and making no. 1 reality.
Everyone is free to skip that process, wait for final release and start game for free trial before making any decision. But many of us here love the project so much that even if you are not having a time to participate in testing you can donate to help this project. Access to Alpha/Beta in this case is just nice bonus to have
But the vision and plans for fully released game are clear and as I understand, many scepticism around monthly sub model, there is many pros and cons. But in this particular type of MMO it makes perfect sense and is nothing new. EVE was a success story and well tested well over a decade. Proved there is big audience willing to go for it. But people need more as always. Voxels and user generated content is the thing of this decade and we need more immerse experience of sci-fi MMO. EVE is on decline not because of the payment model. Because struggling to keep up with latest trends and at some point they would need to start from scratch in order to do so. This is where DU comes in.
- Shockeray, huschhusch and Lord_Void
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Once again, I'm pretty sure he meant 'we retrofit' new type of engines not we made new 'Retro' engines
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Indeed something that was talked over many times. One of the most interesting aspect yet only tests will show the scale of the problem.
My easy solution to the problem was:
Drop on the ground whatever you dig up. Only use valuable resources.
Forcing people to think twice about mining operations. If there is a hole there will be a hill. Moving tones of dirt/rock should have consequences.That will help to slow down degradation of terrain.
If you are troll trying to dig massive holes around some nice place you will have to shift that material somewhere. Not make it magically disappear.
And that idea has nothing to do with compressing technology to pretend you can carry few tones in your pocket. Yeas you can store more in relatively small area, but when put back on the ground it should have the same volume as original.
Destroying terrain on large scale, or degrading it that way will take time. But still, possibility to repair it is there.
Otherwise any planet sooner or later will start looking like an apple core.
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Not sure why you call it magic, because if I understood correctly by the look of it, it is trying to mimic Reaction Control System, RCS thrust engines.
It helps to keep/correct desired trajectory and momentum of the vessel. Why JC would call it Retro on the video? No idea... maybe it was misunderstood for :retrofit
Quoteadd (a component or accessory) to something that did not have it when manufactured.
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I wasn't even aware each account may have up to 3 avatars. Where did you get this info from?
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NQ usually don't support tedious mechanics that are irrelevant to the gameplay, so I doubt they'll ever force us to dump dirt on the ground.
Well, mining by hand is tedious and they justified it by not damaging gameplay. And in this case force us to dump unwanted stuff back into the environment would also justify protecting game-play against damage caused. Territory control would help to regulate a lot too.
But think about it for a second. If I will be allowed to dig any material in no time and throw it away on the spot, or even with small cool-down I bet plenty of people will start to do underground bases. We didn't arrive on new planet to rat ourselves like we hiding from sun
. Many still will do that but in order to carve underground city you will need to shift massive amount of material from one place to another. That matter will not be lost. If it does planet will be like a Swiss chees in no time.And speaking of server performance. If they allowed to dig voxels thousands of players at the same time, there is no difference between forming vs digging a voxel. It is the same load on the server. If I'm busy putting voxel back I'm not digging, I can dig and build at the same time. To compare to the guy who dig all the time and throwing stuff away that must have a physical representation and have an extra calculation behind it.
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I would love to see realistic physicals in-game whether its materials science, orbital mechanics, or physics, as long as it doesn't stress the server and the client. On the other hand, I feel like that would drive away the players. I mean, just look at Star Wars vs Star Trek. The general public doesn't like sciency things. If you look at the popularity ratings of KSP here, https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%2Fm%2F0h68f9g, the game reaches 100 interest when Pewdiepie played it. There is a reason why you see all those "Math sucks" posts on the internet. Face it, we are going to have to dumb down(though not so much that people will treat this like Minecraft and Roblox) to reach out to a wider playerbase.
Just saying, China has actually put a wooden (ablative) heat shield on its spacecraft which has worked.
https://vintagespace.wordpress.com/2016/12/05/can-a-wood-heat-shield-really-work/
Not so sure about it, let me disagree and speculate on it for a while.
Look at the audience game like EVE (keep in mind long runner MMO) attracted. Back in 2003 it was considered highly geeky for students with VISA's. Yet it managed to attract thousands and kept them going for more than a decade. To master the interface, items, possibilities... that was overwhelming experience for anyone having a go with 2 weeks free trial. Yet the managed. The day I saw USERS ONLINE 60,000+ I was never the same person again
. And guess what, those players were asking for more! They needed challenges to keep game attractive.SE, nice concept but hey! engineering sounds scary, math, some moving parts, wait I'm too dump to design spaceship that actually fly! Game in bad shape, laggy, lots of problems still after more than 2 years in development. But here is a thing... audience it attracted? Students mostly, adult males around 40 trying to realise their childhood dreams. They screaming in desperation because that voxel simulation promised so much more. I was running SE server myself for more than 9 months, writing mods etc.
I have not seen a single child, most of people I could talk to were educated even asking for more realistic mods, more challenge because believe me or not SE has no goal or sense at all. You just get in, dig, build. crash and repeat. Everyone out there building ships to fight but they ending up fighting bugs and so called clang.
Yet it attracted thousands of people who do know math, programming, those who don't, they were eager to learn. And finding it fascinating. After a while asking for more.
It all depends what audience you targeting.
for EVE it was obvious, visa was preventing kids going there. For SE well my job is to make sure my kids will love math. Judging young generation they dumb is not fair, there is plenty of young people out there I would be ashamed to argue with. My 9 years old boy already giving up Minecraft slowly because his daddy prefer to play SE. And he likes to play with daddy, it's funnier.
Maybe I'm wrong, but judging by the audience of this forum so far I don't feel like I'm surrounded by kids afraid of the game being too hard because too immerse or realistic. I see quite opposite. People asking for more because they already know. We for sure don't want this game to be boring. And having some shortcuts is unavoidable sometimes for sake of game-play. But teaching kids that Steel is made out of Iron and drop the coal from equation... maybe this is our fault, this is how we making them stupid. If they growing with stupefied version of games.
Somehow we were ok to fiddle with our C64/Atari to find new cheats, read some hex code and figure out how to imagine those pseudo 3D pixelized lines showing me some ship in Elite on Amiga 500.
I do hope NQ taking this into account, what audience they attracting already. They kind of building the game they would like to play themselves. Realising their dream too. They all grown ups and educated people. We do not need to be treated like stupid kids for sure. And I do not believe this is a case here. And for the same reason we will understand all shortcomings or sacrifices they have to make due to technical limitations. The last thing I would accuse NQ for is that they are not pushing for a deep and immerse game play because they kind of did mile stone already with the concept itself.
The day I read dev-blog, I knew what kind of people are behind this project and that was 95% of my decision behind backing this project to be honest.
The day I saw crafting demo, and steel was iron+carbon I knew I was right with my choice
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Welcome on board and dive in
And yes, those possibilities, the holy grail of the games that was forming a dream title in our heads from years, by looking how technology is changing, amazing package is emerging!
I get your disappointments caused by other titles. When comes to NMS I never was on hype train, nor own that game. Maybe was lucky to read about it before hype started and there was enough information to suggest this is going to be game for lone wanderers. When the lies started to spread I was aware.
So I would recommend you to dive deep into this forum, dev diary and watching those videos closely.
NQ is very careful about not letting our imagination to fly to high.
This is indeed a dream game for many of us here but we know the consequences and limitations as well. Not letting hype yourself with stuff, keep expectations reasonable will not let you down.
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Yeah, I still feel random despite of pledging Gold, but no shady business going on here I can assure you
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Yeap, corrected, done, lets move on
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That's the frigging point I am making. Space Engineers' collision works on comparing block to block on collision. This systme I am proposing is NOT about VOXEL DEFORMATION. It's about STRUICTURAL INTEGRITY - aka , "fall damage" for ships. This systme is not about using a ship like a "drill" to breka a nother ship's voxel armor. This is about G Tolerance.
They already have Momentum and Inertial forces and surface areas. They already have Angular Velocities, they already have Center of MAss. But what? Adduing a simple mechanism of "if you go from X speed to 0 m/s you take damage to "Structure" " is "resource taxing" ?
You think that atmopsheric entry mechanism is "less taxing" for figuring out damage? No. it isn't. It's the EXACT same thing I suggested only for acceleration limits - which works both ways, decceleration is acceleration in the opposite direction..
NQ has no excuse for not having G Tolerance mechanics. Nobody will ever convince me they don't omitt the mechanism to make the game have no risk for bad pilots - which is why people will SHRED the game's cognitive dissonance on reviews.
I can see Bluedrake42's 1 hour long rant and all the 1 hour long rants from al lhis buddies on his network who like beating a dead horse.
Well all they shown on latest dev diary video was reentry effect. Not really confirmed something is happening to your construct as consequence unless I missed something.
But in overall you got me convinced to the possibility of using already existing params to work out what should happen to the bodies to prevent idiotic paradoxes.
Thinking from programmatic point of view is not that big deal. If the server needs to keep track on your movement and send/propagate this back to players every single time you change direction, acceleration, another information about.. you died, got damaged by exceeding G Tolerance should not be a problem per se.
The only one, in this circumstances would the rubber-band effect when you having a hiccups with your connection. Server is trying to interpolate and predict your new position and the adjust it immediately. Then a difference between when you drop a sync with server and new position would suggest, you actually exceeded max G. And I personally thing, this is the only thing prevent them to go for it.
It is this kind of thing we know from FPS cheat detectors. Like punkbuster back in the days. When you had a lag and you were kicked by punkbuster because it interpreted your movement as impossible speed and started to look as you are using some cheats to teleport.
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Many of your questions are answered in the first 30 minutes of this video (although the quality is kinda of meh) from the dinner in San Francisco during GDC:
Yeap, and this is what worries me. (26:00) Hundred of cubic meters of matter destroyed in no time dissolved into void.
JC himself mentioned it is a tricky part, and looks like they still working this out, or they were.
I only wish that matter will not be able to disappear, what volume you dug up should remain. Even if for game-play they introduce some compressors for 1 person to be able to carry much more that you would expect, if you don't want dirt or rocks, you will be force to dispose it, form a hill somewhere or simply put back to the hole you dug up so the damage to the environment will be minimal.
Sure, some people may not care about it, but there will always be someone who does. Building cities, planing them, even dirt will play a crucial role. I don't know... you would like to build a road systems, flatten a canyon etc form a hill whatever. This volume would be needed. And it will preserve the overall volume of the planet.
If the mineral distribution would fit of the model we know from Earth
Here is the template:
Element name
Symbol
Percentage by weight of the Earth’s crust
Oxygen
O
47
Silicon
Si
28
Aluminium
Al
8
Iron
Fe
5
Calcium
Ca
3.5
Sodium
Na
3
Potassium
K
2.5
Magnesium
Mg
2
All other elements
1
Table 1 The elements in the Earth’s crust
Clearly we going for Iron/Aluminium/Silicon/Magnesium and the 'other elements'. Being able to preserve the rest of crust, bu forcing players to shuffle it around there will be no noticeable damage to the planet even if we manage to dig it all up.
It's actually a shocker for me that 47% of Earth crust is Oxygen.
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I see the trajectory of my joke was just off by a bit to get it. :|
Don't worry it was read by some but when I picture that video clip... not sure if this is what I want to spend my free time on
so double sarcastic joke here. -
Thanks @ATMLVE for this reminder. I actually re-watched the video and read that stuff again.
But yeah it looks like what they call veins is just a terms to describe ore existence rather its physical formation.
I'm more interested about that unwanted dirt and rock aspect. They have shown us on the videos early game-play one or even asteroid base build how easily you can dig big holes. Obviously in dev mode they can pull anything from thin air but I do hope it wont be a case in game.
Sure, all that unwanted material must be shifted transported as well and that should be a logistic challenge as part of the mining operation. In some games we already have it. Like in Space Engineers for instance all that useless rocks, people building special ejectors to get rid of it and shoot it into the pace. Because game engine deletes all flying objects after some maximum number is being reached it means you can vaporise big portions of matter. That creates a lot of destruction of the surface and make long running servers unplayable.
But the way they implemented it is.. well.. bad. I think that any voxel should exist in 2 states. The physical one you can pick from the ground and put it back with the same volume. And as representation in your cargo. They invented 3rd state, so when you collect voxel, it has cargo representation, but when you throw it back it becomes a physical item that only looks like rock and it's size grows with the volume. So you have massive problems when your cargo blows up. Because it can suddenly produce a Little asteroid inside your ship. It never matches the actual volume. It's almost like when you collect voxels you compress them.
But hmm... now if we can grab that voxel and put it back, we have to do it by hand. Blowing up the cargo would need to be locked down or impossible even. Because you would need to represent it's content somehow. And having massive amount of rocks floating around is not a good solution for a server.
This whole thing is not that trivial as it seems. I would say, if it will try to mimic reality it needs to be well thought. If not it will led to careless surface destruction with no consequences. So this is why I wish NQ could respond to this. What and how they actually planing to deal with it.
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Hi @All @NQ
Some other discussion of discord channel triggered me to as this question.
How is the mining will be implemented exactly?
So far we know you have a scanning process worked out.
We know with the our mining tool will be able to extract volumes of matter when you located your deposit.
that brings 2 questions:
1. How the ore deposits will be positioned... as a veins stretching over some lengths on certain depth? Or simply blobs of it in random locations and depth.
2. Once we located the ore, to get there we will need to dig trough dirt and useless rocks. What will happen to this material? Will be able to magically get rid of that unwanted material or more realistically to get rid of, means deposit in other place.
Personally I wish the second is the truth. That would create logistic challenges and even help to keep Alioth in better shape. Because nobody will shamelessly dig holes all over the place and simply destroying it into void. It should be transfer of any matter. If your inventory is full of dirt you have to go somewhere else and form a hill out of it to empty your inventory. If you need to move your valuable resources they physically occupies the same volume of space as it was laying in the ground.
So what is your plan in regards to this?
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Indeed, at this point most of the stuff going on on this forum, it's just that:
1. pure speculations about things we don't know.
2. random ideas about things we wish to be there but it's hard to say if they make sense because there is way to many things we don't know yet and that brings us back to square 1.
But is fun and who knows out of this rumble maybe some of it triggers NQ to came up with something interesting for us in future implementations.
But I am pretty sure when they read our disputes and arguing with each other they have more info about, they must lol a lot
I only hope we all stay calm and civil about all this because at the end of the day it suppose to be fun. We should focus on bonding more for sure.
This community is creative and vibrant already, no question about that
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Yeap, I said that myself, it's a game. So no point of taking things strict or literal as we can conclude.
It was my whole point of this little debate
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It was an org which built it and organized it but that doesn't mean we're all part of them.....
And after surviving the biggest cataclysm in our history we decided to jump to build separate orgs, divide and conquer and go to war to kill each other... yeah
I just hope NASA will never send any of you to Mars with such attitudes
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If we all came in one ship and under control of one organisation why we even fighting, why creating organisations to set as apart, like with memory loss we don't even know who we are and where we came from. I found this part less believable to be honest
And our story rely on section Mysteries that is part of Lore Bible. So even far stretched, it's a mystery...
I know it's just a game and Lore Bible as any bible will have many interpretations
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Well.. I could add to this.
I know some disagree to the made up scenario of Homeless. But we came to Alioth on our own. Our ancestors were scientist and engineers working on construction of Arcship. But were lied to and left behind. We have been sent to final mining mission to gather resources. It was deliberate plan to send us away.
AS you were told, the knowledge of Kyrium was lost... one of our biggest mysteries. Technology that helped us to get here. But our record shows, our ancestors, who were building arc ship knew about it. They knew how to modify our ship and send us to pursuit Archip. They probably were the only ones that knew that technology. Perhaps it was part of the plan to leave people with that knowledge behind.
Later on when we joined arcship, woke up from cryo sleeps, memory loss, I know some of you could experience longer term effects and become confused. but perhaps you were not on the arcship but we prefer to call ourselves... Homeless
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We are not playing a game yet. My prediction is, the current setup has nothing to do with the one we will see upon launch of the game.
There will be reality check because conditions may be so much different from what most of us has in mind.
People joining orgs today goes by social media behaviour factor. Kind of sheep behaviour, meaningless value to org. Just raw numbers and the only good it can serve is to bound some people together.
If I can predict anything is that some of the active names here and now will remain that way. Influencers so to speak. But getting used to current setup is irrelevant for next 2 years.
You can hardly name any of org to be an empire today. They know and posses nothing, so they can provide and serve the same back to their people.
- Anaximander, Kuritho, Vyz Ejstu and 2 others
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WAR, what is it good for?
in General Discussions
Posted
In short, for profit. Losses stimulates economy. Everyone is throwing more resources and money to build a war machine.
But as many like about DU being a PVP game and simply it's fun for many to blow things up. There is group of people who love the idea of single shard MMO when you can simulate large scale social and economical mechanics. Sure war can be one of it. But not for society that is trying to build cashless economy.
I'm not delusional, it will be hard with bunch of trigger happy people but that very fact would approximate difficulties of creating such society in RL.