Mordgier
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Posts posted by Mordgier
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31 minutes ago, Iorail said:
Now you understand, and also why we can’t explain how. But so you and others are aware there is a second exploit involving docking and flying away regarding the weight of what was docked (I was able to ferry away a test M core ship with 1500 t total weight on an L core ship that weight it 46t) and that one has also been reported with video proof, and that’s all I can say.
And that is exactly why I say people exploiting this are the ones that are going to kill PvP/PIracy for the rest of us. But the kicker is, I don’t have to fly it to the PvP zone to take possession of it either, I can do it on my own claimed hex (the other exploit)
I'm well aware of the docking weight exploit and see it abused regularly, it's infuriating as it's allowed a certain org to ferry their entire pvp fleet around the system for essentially free using ultra light warp platforms with their entire pvp fleet docked to it. It's absolutely bullshit.
It's also been reported back in Alpha...
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3 minutes ago, Leogradance said:
It is quite unlikely that whoever did this actually transported the ship to the pvp zone. Too situational, cumbersome and not economically convenient.
I will not explain how to do it. Only if NQ asks me.
I discovered it by accident and "the whole" ship exploded, not just the core.In the case we are talking about, they have claimed the territory.
15 min, in the meantime they brought what is needed and set up the thing. As soon as they completely claimed the territory, they blew up the ship, repaired the useful parts, dismantled and threw the rest.It didn't take them hours. Too risky.
What if the player returned? If was inside the ship? They had wasted a lot of time and resources for nothing.Don't be naive.
Anyway, are all useless talking again.
Its an exploit. Explaine how its irrilevant. Safe zone must to be "safe".
Any other consideration is frying air
Fair, but we had literally force docked ships and flown them to pvp zones and I'd like to be able to keep doing that. We were not aware of any exploit to destory it in tile, and had we been, we still wouldn't have done that. We would lock the ship in with voxels on our carrier to prevent the player from flying it of and just hauled it away then used the missiles on the hauler to blast it, repair it and fly it back to be scrapped.
So like I said, I think it's fine to have to fly the ships to a pvp area. I do agree that smashing it in tile is an exploit simply because I think destroying it in a non pvp area is an issue. MOVING it to a pvp area isn't.
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You literally had a MOD come into this thread and basically tell you in a nice way that you aren't getting an answer and to deal with it.
I am not a MOD so I don't have to be as nice.
JC has better things to do than to put your paranoid minds at ease. Go find something else to freak out about, ideally in a game that's not DU.
TIA
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7 minutes ago, Anopheles said:
Love too, sounds like a idea I'd want to crash into at speed. Alas, I cant explain how to do an exploit.
Didn't know this and not how we had been stealing ships - and yeah I would consider what you're describing definitely outside of the intended mechanics.
So I will amend my stance - Claiming a tile to destroy the ship IN that tile without dragging to a pvp zone is an exploit. Force docking it and dragging it out to a pvp area to pop it isn't.
The later requires far more effort and also forced the theif to venture into a pvp zone and put themselves at risk.
The former does not.
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11 minutes ago, Dashivax said:
What did your unkillable guide character do in the game world? Nothing but talk to players correct? Never physically interacted with the game world in any way correct? In fact you were PREVENTED from doing so correct?
Do you honestly not see the difference? You are describing exactly the rules that are applied to every GM or DEV or Guide in every MMO ever made. Except this one apparently? I don't know we still haven't gotten an answer.
Correct - we had a very different set of rules - but the rules of the game world did not apply to us.
The rules of the game world do not apply to JC.
Him owning 37 tiles does not impact your gameplay.
Get over it.
This isn't the T20 eve scandal. There is zero impact. Just uninstall if you're salty about it.In fact, if you comment that you're uninstalling - I'll make another DU alt to cover the loss of your sub and the stupid drama you create over non issues.
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Just now, Dashivax said:
Oh my mistake, I was just pointing out that like most of the other defenders in this thread you are starting off by saying you don't care about this but then immediately offer the explanation that it must just be for testing. The truth is we don't know. Just because YOU think it could be for testing doesn't mean no one should care and it doesn't matter and we shouldn't ask.
So what you really mean to say is, you don't care what the developer does, you don't care if this is not for testing, you don't care if actually another player owned one of those tiles and got booted out of it by JC to clear the land for his purposes whatever they may be. So if you get banned tomorrow for no reason you definitely won't be complaining on discord or reddit right away because the developers can do whatever they want right?
I think I understand your position now.
My position is, I would like to know to what extent the developers plan to use developer tools to impact the game world using their player characters in the future, before I commit more time and money to this game.
What hyperbolic nonsense.
JC didn't boot anyone from 37 tiles. JC didn't ban anyone because he got bored.
He claimed 37 unclaimed tiles on a world with thousands of available tiles.
That's it.
It doesn't impact you.
You don't deserve an answer.
If you think you are entitled to one, feel free to uninstall.
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6 minutes ago, Halanok said:
Have any of you actually played other MMOs before???
Have you?
How does the 37 tiles claimed impact you?
How did my Guide character in Anarchy Online being literally unkillable impact you?
If you have issues with what JC is doing - uninstall and cancel your sub as JC is basically this game.
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4 minutes ago, Dashivax said:
When they create a character and log it into the game world, and perform in game activities on that player character, what other definition is there?
NQ-Name isn't a player character. It's a dev account.
NQ- can teleport at will anywhere - and what you think JC mined the ore to build his castle??? Get real.
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9 minutes ago, Dashivax said:
If a developer is also playing the game as a player...
Stop.
He ISN'T playing it as a player. NQ- is not a player.
How hard is this to grasp?
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7 minutes ago, Zamiel7 said:
It's for this reason that I honestly think it's a good idea to just keep Alioth free of PvP, and this is coming from someone for who PvP is the top interest/priority. Honestly, I'd even be okay with the current safe zone that includes Madis and Thades remaining free of PvP. The planets outside of the safe zone are currently better for finding resources (especially higher tier ore) and when things like asteroid mining and such are introduced, there will be even more reasons to travel outside of the safe zone.
But, this isn't (yet another) topic about PvP or the safe zone, so I'll leave it at that.
I don't even see this as a pvp vs pve topic.
My main focus is pvp. I want this game to have flourishing pvp areas full of reasons to go there and full of risk. I love the rush of pvp and I don't think DU will be complete with out it.
At the same time I fully understand that to thrive this game needs safe areas where people can play minecraft in space.
I want players to go to pvp areas because they are lured there by tasty ores not because the area they built suddenly became hostile.
Ultimately this uncertainty about where we should be building is driving people away and creating tons of org drama. Our own org has spent days bickering about investing into our space base, sanc base or moon bases because we just don't know which is best to invest in. Sure the moon bases is easiest to build up - but what if it becomes a pvp area? Sanc is the hardest, but safe forever for sure and the space base in a complete unknown....
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15 hours ago, Leogradance said:
Flying pig in DU? Too easy
Mate... really: destroy a core in safe zone without go in pvp zone are really easy.
5 minutes?
30 seconds.
In a tile owned.
This isn't a mechanic that I'm familiar with.
My stance is that hauling the ship away is legitimate.
IF there is a way to literally destroy the core in the safe zone, then I agree that THAT is an exploit.
Destroying elements in a safe zone crosses the line in my opinion. NQ has said that we are allowed to manipulate and move foreign constructs in owned tiles - but has said nothing about destroying the in the claimed tile.
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1 hour ago, Elrood said:
You may be surprised... as noone know if and how much of alioth will be pvp zone.
Unless of course you have some insight knowledge, better than last JC interviews.Honestly that was my biggest frustration with the interview.
JC needs to give players clear direction NOW on where is and isn't safe forever. It seems that he himself does't have his mind made up.
This is a huge issue - we have people who are building up on sanc because they are expecting Alioth to go pvp. These people are at a massive disadvantage from Alioth based players because Sanc players must haul all their ore in while Alioth players fly a few grids out and dig out much of what they need.
If it turns out that Alioth goes pvp, the players who built on Alioth expecting it to remain safe are salty.
If it turns out that Alioth stays pve, the players who built on Sanc have wasted days and tons of space fuel hauling ore from Alioth to Sanc just to keep their production running.
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23 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:
What do you mean? Explain the logic behind it being dangerous?
Feel free to give RL examples.
100k is insignificant overall and I don't think that particular aspect is harmful.
I DO think that there need to be money sinks in the game. Currently there just aren't enough. You do not normally buy from NPCs so the money is currently injected into the economy via NPC buys and the 100k daily but money does not exit - so the volume of money in rotation continues to increase - and with that the value of it decreases.
The minimum value of quanta is currently pinned by bot sell orders.
Effectively right now the economy and value of money is artificial and not player driven. On a long enough timeline the game does risk people building up bank accounts to massive that they can just buy things they need at will.
This is also affected by the fact that items are never destroyed, so while people are currently saving up for some high end gear like warpdrives, once they purchase those, they effectively have it for life.
In short, items need to be destroyed and we need money sinks. Parking fees etc...
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You will need to use a container hub to link your containers and then link to the hub.
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16 minutes ago, PureKickAss said:
Well, ain't this a pvp based game? You will be getting tricked, baited manipulated, lured, pirated etc. For me it looks legit tactic to be used to destroy, loot other players equipment. You are getting 15 min warning to gtfo, otherwise deal with consequences.
If the newbie zone dispensors that give you 1L of coal for 10k are OK so is stealing ships 'abandoned' in unclaimed tiles.
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6 minutes ago, Iorail said:
I’m not even going to waste any more time here, But don’t say you was never warned.
Who are you to be issuing warnings?
I don't see an NQ tag.
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22 minutes ago, Iorail said:
Let me spell this out for the few of you who still think this is EVE 2.0, it’s not, get over it. You want EVE, go play EVE.
Second, it was already stated on the DU Press Discord that just because NQ is not talking about exploits and punishments, it’s not going to happen. They where very clear that they are going to take action against players abusing game mechanics, specially duping items and such, but not limited to that only. The information is there in black and white, and they even stated that there will be a general public announcement soon enough once they close the loopholes.
Third, you can not interact with any construct anywhere, including the PvP zone, that don't belong to you using the maneuvering tool unless it’s inside a tile claim by you, for obvious reason, or the construct’s core is destroyed. So the ability to “dock” a ship using that to another ship with the soul purpose of “stealing it” is not a valid game mechanic or an intended one, just a side effect that will be remove soon enough and screw over the legit player that will now get harassed by people parking huge cubes on their property. But I’ll explain this down below for those of you who still think this is all legit gameplay.
And last, just because you can do something in a game doesn’t mean that is legal, some stuff is not intended and it’s simply either a bug or an exploit. And if you find it, stop using and reported for review or continue to abuse it and face the consequences of your actions later, it’s up to you. NQ has been very clear that the safe zone is just that, a safe zone devoted of any PvP where people can be safe to leave their items. I’m all for PvP and I can’t wait for it to be worked on and expanded but this is not PvP at all. People found a way to circumvent a game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage, which is the very definition of what an exploit is. Territory PvP or actions are not part of the game right now, but like I already mention here before, there are 4 ways to get around this that allows players to steal ships, or destroy Satic/Dynamic/Space cores and steal everything anyone has, even on Sanctuary Moon or the markets or inside safe space which again, has been stated very clear to be safe areas that people can leave their stuff.
I’m not here to tell anyone to do or not do something, if you think you are right, go right ahead, just don’t come crying when actions are taken and the game changes for the worst. We can’t discuss moderation actions against players on this forums either, but believe me, action has been taken already against some players that continue to circumvent game mechanics for their advantage. Just go to the regular DU discord and ask in general chat, people will tell you.
I’m also 100% sure that what the OP think happens wasn’t really what happened. The tile was claim to be able to use a current exploit, because of the weight of the ship itself and the cargo weight, because His ship, M Core according to him, wasn’t maneuvered into an L ship to take it away to the PvP zone at all, it was destroyed right there and dismantled on that tile, and that took the 15 minutes to claim the tile and maybe another 5 minutes to destroy and repair the core and maybe any red elements necessary to fly it away, that is it. I’m all up for PvP and piracy but this wasn’t any of that. I want the game to evolved like everyone else but not based on exploits.
>Let me spell this out for the few of you who still think this is EVE 2.0, it’s not, get over it. You want EVE, go play EVE.
Very interesting opinion - perhaps you should listen to NQ live streams more where they constantly talk about EVE and how they draw a lot from it.
> it was destroyed right there and dismantled on that tile
Yeah and pigs fly. If that is indeed what happened - sure exploit - bad bad. Whatever.
>Third, you can not interact with any construct anywhere, including the PvP zone, that don't belong to you using the maneuvering tool unless it’s inside a tile claim by you, for obvious reason, or the construct’s core is destroyed. So the ability to “dock” a ship using that to another ship with the soul purpose of “stealing it” is not a valid game mechanic or an intended one, just a side effect that will be remove soon enough and screw over the legit player that will now get harassed by people parking huge cubes on their property. But I’ll explain this down below for those of you who still think this is all legit gameplay.
What you are doing here is making assumptions and jumping to conclusions.
If I am allowed to claim a tile and move constructs within it, there is no logical reason to believe that I cannot claim a tile for the sole purpose of manipulating the constructs within that tile. It's not an instant action. There is a 15 minute warning - and plenty of opportunities after the fact the recover your ship.
If I am allowed to move constructs into docks, there is no reason for me to assume that this is not acceptable.
Once again - do not leave large ships in unclaimed tiles. That is it. This isn't hard. I have never left my ship in an unclaimed tile when I logged off. You too can do this.
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3 minutes ago, Randazzo said:
You assume the value of the cargo has any bearing on it.
What?
You think that people are going to bother popping down a claim to steal a crappy ship?
Once again you make it sound like people are able to just click your ship into a pvp zone.
The effort required is significant.
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1 hour ago, michaelk said:
This will only get worse, but hopefully they start deleting claims from people that played for 20 minutes and stopped right after they plopped down their territory unit...
"Well the rest of the game is even worse" isn't really a great angle, here. If new players have to spend longer and longer to get started, that's definitely a problem. Can you imagine how bad it will be in a year? Or if the game actually became popular?
Complaining about ever-increasing monotony at the start of the game isn't demanding "instant gratification"... no need for value judgements, especially at the point where players haven't yet experienced other parts of the game.
Personally the reason I find travel via Speeder at the start of the game so bad is that everything is so incredibly ugly. There's nothing to look at during this phase of the game...just 90s era terrain textures, tree-like models, and unroofed mini factories.
There are absolutely parts of the new player experience that I think desperately need help.
For example, Sanctuary as a whole is a trap because you cannot mine unclaimed tiles and it's not hard to mine out your own tile. So newbies end up clicking 20L rocks for hours when instead had the game told them to go set up a claim on Alioth they would be far better off. Oh but now they don't want to rebase in Alioth because they built their factory on Sanctuary...MOVE IT
The starting package is abysmal.
They should get some free basic industries, a handful of s crates, a refinery, metal worker and an m assembler at start would help tremendously. Sure sure you can buy all that easy but noobs don't know to and spend days handrefining and handcrafting things and complaining that it all takes too long while the reality is that they could have bought all their starting industries to jumpstart their production for the 100k they got.
Teach newbies to turn their hovercraft into a plane. Hovercraft are useless in this game and inferior to planes.
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12 minutes ago, Randazzo said:
Cool, what about every other new player who has been told by the game that it's safe to do so in the safe zone?
It's just a chickenshit tactic that you and several others are trying to legitimize so you can steal while avoiding pvp in the process.
I don't believe the game tells you anywhere that you can safely leave your stuff in unclaimed territory.
Also - the 'new player' doesn't have anything worth the fuel to haul it off to pvp space. It's a non trivial task.
More new players have lost their ships to the "No Fly Zones" - go report those for griefing instead.
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50 minutes ago, Randazzo said:
That's a big part of the issue, there is nothing to be done. It can't be dealt with. There is no recourse or retaliation possible, which is precisely why it's done. It's people who can't do actual pvp and so resort to grief tactics.
Don't log out your ship in unclaimed tiles.
You have now dealt with it.
Easy.
Do you have any idea how long it takes to steal a ship?
First of all, the territory has to be claimed and you get a 15 minute warning. You can move your ship during those 15 minutes.
Second even if you log in and your ship is already being hauled away to be scrapped, which in total may take quite a bit of time and is not trivial, (we need to make a pad that is big enough for your ship AND can break atmo with your ship strapped to it), you can respawn on the ship and simply fly it off. Even if they built a cage around it on the pad you can fetch it.
You have plenty of tools available to prevent your ship from being stolen. Failure to utilize these tools is on you.
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All these people here complaining, are the same people who died in eve high sec and lost their minds because they were in 'safe space'.
If I see a big fat ship on an unclaimed tile - I'm claiming that tile and stealing your ship.
Deal with it.
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Please explain why you think that it's harmful.
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You know shift Pg Down or Page up advances or backtracks the tutorial right? It's like the first thing it tells you.
Why does NQ-Sophon own 37 Tiles on Alioth?
in General Discussions
Posted
The fact that JC has not shared his lua code for the breakout game in his castle is an outrage!