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Hi everyone!

 

In this topic I want to discuss with all of you a topic of 3rd party interface extensions, or to be precise, 2 concepts:
1) API for extracting in-game information
2) API for modifying player interface

I will start from vision DU team is trying to achieve. Sandbox in its truest sense, DU first and foremost trying to be not a predefined experience, but a world with a set of rules defining how it works (with many of them being in place to make life in world enjoyable). It is unknown what end experience in world will be, and will ultimately be decided how player community organises itself. All cities, all factions, all markets, laws, interactions and social standarts are going to be built by players, and devs have no idea what those will be by design (although they are trying to influence it in enjoyable direction). This is basicly what emergent gameplay means.

 

And now we move to the topic of User Interface. Naturally, DU team can only build interface for mechanics that they know everything about, so this will be our basic gathering, ship building and piloting interfaces. But very little is known about what actual player interactions will be. For example market, pretty basic structure, but we don't even know what will end up as curency. Will it be some in-game curency? or barter through some common resource? or perhaps pure virtual curency managed by player bank, that is directly tied to game time(PLEX)? On top of it all, market trading requires very sophisticated interface. Product price and volume history graphics being simpliest esential tools for example.

 

Thats why I propose implemeneting API that will allow playerbase to design tools for those tasks. For example, it can be simple addon for traders, that records all transactions and sends to some server, that puts it all together and gives open information to traders in form they need. And it all being managed completely without DU team supervision. Another example can be security rating system, that records aggresive actions against players who use, and creates database of players and organisations to watch out for.

 

We can also take it one step further, and allow complete customisation of in-game UI. For example, players piloting ships can use 3rd party interface, that outputs whatever information in whatever way, that is most convinient for them. Players who afraid of being ganked can have extra window feeding them info whenever another ship enters sensor range, other players may feel vital ship statistics should be better visible and chose such UI, and many would want to have just super cool looking ship interface.

 

That is why propose implementing API for extracting information from objects and player, what they can see and feel, as well as API that would allow to replace objects UI with 3rd party one.

 

Cheers!

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Well, yes. That would be sweet if some guy could create a modified version of the U.I. IF the devs somehow miss the mark on that. The point is, you mean you want API's so people can create chart threads on sites, keeping track of player activity, prices and so on. I can back that idea, something like a real-time stock exchange price catalogue.

But I don't think that there will be a bajillion of skills and need for target tracking on the screen for interfaces to be customised by players, unless you mean a cosmetic change. I mean, in WoW, a custom interface was needed because arena combat was very intense when it came to keeping track of enemy cooldowns and your cooldowns, while maintaining focus and focus-of-focus tabs was a must for macro to play well, especially as a healer. But in Dual, the problem is that the whole "skills" system will be more of a passive thing than actively involved. The way I see it, you can make an add-on for a commander to send to others who have the same add-on a message for a predetermined maneuver. That would be awesome. 


Unless the devs make the interface customisable on launch and you will only be left with making the chart-threads sites :P

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I will also back that ideal. I am working on a website currently and having that sort of tool available to developers within organizations would be very handy. It would be really nice if NQ could make it so there is different things within the game that can be affected by an external database that Org administrators can modify. For example, a automatic security clearance to certain parts of a base depending on your level of access set by the Ligates of your Organization. Some stuff like that would be really handy.

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I'm against API and developed game statistics. Part of this game that I really like is that everything is player run. I firmly believe that if a org wants a statistic they need to do the research themselves. This makes in-game data WAY more valuable. It also adds a whole new dynamic to the game: media, and data collection orgs. If you want to know something like, a ship count on another org, the value of a company, or what areas are highly active, you should have to do the research yourself. Like the real world. 

 

The reason for this, secrecy. If my org builds some crazy secret weapon, it's not fair that someone could look at statistics and data to determine a correlation. Immersion includes secrecy. 

 

I know that it is really convenient to have that data on hand via websites and programs. So, my counter which includes an API of sorts. 

            - It Should be player built

            - It needs to be able to communicate effectively

 

So, my solution is a really expensive item, Quantum Computer (QP), that runs LUA, non destructive, scripts, server side not client side with an instruction governor. It should be only available to organizations, and it should be able to communicate to the constructs run by that organization, and be able to send, not receive, to the web. 

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Quote

Français :

Je soutiens à moitié cette idée.

Oui, il faudrait que l'on puise personnalisé son interface.

Non, crée une API externe qui récolte et trie les donnés.

 

Je rejoins @mrfrazz sur l'absence de secret d'une telle méthode. "L'Information est le pouvoir, Le Secret la clé de la victoire."

Et une telle API détruirait cela.

Si vous voulait savoir qui fait quoi, crée un service d'espionnage.

 

Après NQ pourrait communiquer certaine donné trivial hors du jeu, sur une page WEB dédié a ça. Par exemple, les courbes de marché global d'une ressource, et les variations locales des prix.

Mais pas donné l’accès direct aux joueurs.

 

Cependant, l'idée d'une interface personnalisable est excellente.

Je ne joue pas a EVE, mais du peu que je sais, on peut tout (mais vraiment tout) personnalisé. Et on peut ensuite enregistré et partagé cette configuration.

L’interface de DU est gère par Coherent GT, un système basé sur de l’HTML5, du CSS3 et du JavaScript, la base de (presque) tous les sites Web, donc beaucoup de monde connaisse et maitrise ses Techno.

NQ n’a qu’a crée un système Input/Output pour l’interface, crée une interface par défaut, puis donné les outils a la communauté.

En clair les maitres mots de DU :

"Un jeu crée par les joueurs."

 

I half support this idea.

Yes, it would have to be customized its interface.

No, creates an external API that collects and sorts the data.

 

I agree @mrfrazz about the lack of secrecy of such a method. "Information is power, Secret the key to victory."

And such an API would destroy that.

If you want to know who does what, create a spy service.

 

After NQ could communicate some trivial data of the game, on a dedicated WEB page to that. For example, the global market curves of a resource, and local price changes.
But not given direct access to the players.

 

However, the idea of a customizable interface is excellent.

I do not play at EVE, but from the little I know, you can do everything (really everything) personalized. And then we can save and share this configuration.

The DU interface is handled by Coherent GT, a system based on HTML5, CSS3 and JavaScript, the basis of (almost) all websites, so many people know and master their Techno.

NQ only created an Input / Output system for the interface, created a default interface, and then gave the tools to the community.

In short, DU's master words:

"A game created by the players."

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6 hours ago, mrfrazz said:

I'm against API and developed game statistics. Part of this game that I really like is that everything is player run. I firmly believe that if a org wants a statistic they need to do the research themselves. This makes in-game data WAY more valuable. It also adds a whole new dynamic to the game: media, and data collection orgs. If you want to know something like, a ship count on another org, the value of a company, or what areas are highly active, you should have to do the research yourself. Like the real world. 

 

The reason for this, secrecy. If my org builds some crazy secret weapon, it's not fair that someone could look at statistics and data to determine a correlation. Immersion includes secrecy. 

 

I know that it is really convenient to have that data on hand via websites and programs. So, my counter which includes an API of sorts. 

            - It Should be player built

            - It needs to be able to communicate effectively

 

So, my solution is a really expensive item, Quantum Computer (QP), that runs LUA, non destructive, scripts, server side not client side with an instruction governor. It should be only available to organizations, and it should be able to communicate to the constructs run by that organization, and be able to send, not receive, to the web. 

 

only because there is an API, doesn't mean you get ALL information out of it. People can restrict it (like in EVE) to only show so much information.

It makes your life way way way easier if you have access to the APIs of YOUR people (in your org, your spy network,...whoever wants to share it) via some 3rd party program instead of having to share every bit of information via some google drive or player hostet server.

 

Those programs are ofc limited to whatever the API is capable of - you can't pull exact locations of ships in EVE for example.

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2 hours ago, Lethys said:

 

only because there is an API, doesn't mean you get ALL information out of it. People can restrict it (like in EVE) to only show so much information.

It makes your life way way way easier if you have access to the APIs of YOUR people (in your org, your spy network,...whoever wants to share it) via some 3rd party program instead of having to share every bit of information via some google drive or player hostet server.

 

Those programs are ofc limited to whatever the API is capable of - you can't pull exact locations of ships in EVE for example.

Then what data do you propose? I see maybe an application for determining personal player info. Like skills, money, maybe ship status. I see nothing wrong with an API like that. As long as you can only view localized data and it provides no info on others would I find it fair.

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3 hours ago, mrfrazz said:

Then what data do you propose? I see maybe an application for determining personal player info. Like skills, money, maybe ship status. I see nothing wrong with an API like that. As long as you can only view localized data and it provides no info on others would I find it fair.

 

The API that I think most people are envisioning is more on the management side of ORGs. Things that I can imagine is membership management, including a extension to the role management that can be integrated with existing role management systems most orgs have developed into their websites already. It can also be useful to calculate certain stats about an org like player count, amount of land owned, and others things that are not without the common player being able to discover on their own. I agree that APIs should be restricted to certain information, but to restrict it to show only your own information would be pointless as most players are not going to actually be using the API themselves directly.

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