Cataclyzm Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Hello i am wondering if it is planned now or in the future to have any type of first person shooting aspect within the game/added to the game and if so would we be able to engage others in zero gravity shootouts? and also will we be able to exit the ship mid space? gyurka66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Hi.Game's based on a tab-targeting system. While a first person shooting, twitch-monkey reflexes gameplay is not part of the game, taking cover will be a thing to not be turned into a cheese-wheel from bulletstorms Cheers! SegaPhoenix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusNerdius Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Yeah.. this is definitely not a first-person shooter. SegaPhoenix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I've seen the devs say combat will be targeted. Do you have a quote that states it will be tab-targeting, specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusNerdius Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 While I don't normally link to a wiki, this one has sourced info - I didn't see anything about tab targeting specifically, but that it would definitely not be FPS-style. http://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Combat#cite_note-1 Dygz_Briarthorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Yep. Thanks for the link. I'm not completely ruling out tab-targeting. It seems common for people to assume targeted combat inherently means tab-targeting. I've never seen the devs state tab-targeting, so I'm anticipating that the devs may have some other form of targeted combat in mind. I'm trying to keep my eyes peeled for the devs to mention tab-targeting, specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 It would be very strange to have ships than can leave a planet and travel seamlessly to any world in the universe that fuel and time would allow, but have people barred from leaving ships while in space. The specific questions seem to be: Will players have provisions for space-walking, running on the outside of ships and/or have some form of jet pack to maneuver in space if jettisoned off a ship while in space? Will we have to manage oxygen in-take while space-walking? How will the survival aspects of DU impact space-walking? (Also has me wondering about distress calls to help find people stranded in space. Can we craft one-person spacecrafts in space the same as we could on a planet if we have the necessary materials in our inventory?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwingz Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Actually in a developer interview JC used the words a "Lock and fire" type of combat. "Similar to Eve". Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I've seen the devs say combat will be targeted. Do you have a quote that states it will be tab-targeting, specifically? How about the Kickstarter video? :V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Actually in a developer interview JC used the words a "Lock and fire" type of combat. "Similar to Eve". Hope that helps. it's the layman's term, not all people in the world know what the heck tab-targeting refers to It alludes to the 80s, back when you clicked on an enemy in a turn-based game, opened a tab and attacked them. While the context in which is is applied changed, the concept is stil lthe same. The game uses statistics and attributes to determine damage . In EVE, the attributes and skills still remain, and you click on the enemy and choose actions accordingly beyond that. The Devs though, seem to go for an active lock-on tab-targeting. The rules of damage still are the same, only you can control WHERE the attack will go on the enemy's body. A form of active lock-on tab-targeting, is Fallout's V.A.T.S. combat, where you can use stats like luck and skills and perks to determine the chance of hitting the enemy, but you can choose which part of th body you go for. Same rules apply here, using the mining / deploying mechanics of the voxel engine, weapons can lock-on where to focus fire on an enemy ship. Now you know why it is referred as tab-targeting Decker02 and Neosphaler 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neosphaler Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I hope this system will work on earth and allow Earth-combat !Just thinking about the possibilities of this system with city created by players, it can be really good and allow the creation of some epic moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwingz Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 @captaintwerkmotor Hehe I know what tab target is my good man. I've been around for quite some time. But still very nice write up. Quite informative. Anaximander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Lock and fire does not necessarily mean that you cycle through nearby targets in a manner similar to tab-targeting. @Falstaf I'll double-check the Kickstarter vid. Thanks! Neosphaler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttley Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I must say I'm mightily disappointed to learn of this. In my stupidity, I had thought that sub-system tab-targeting only applied to larger vessels as this is what they were talking about in the Kickstarter video. By larger vessels, I was thinking corvette class and above. (How NQ drew distinction was something for them to figure out). My assumption was that smaller ships (like the one in the video) and FP would have the ability to turn into a traditional FPS shooter. I just hate the idea of spamming the F keys. It's one reason I could never get into EVE or WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwingz Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I understand but as explained by JC there are limitations to the tech. You cant have the game as presented at the scale DU is going for without making some sacrifices. FPS combat is one of those. As far as I understood JC when he was explaining it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Around mark 7:45 of the Kickstarter vid, Jean-Christophe says, "...combat will be a lock and fire approach..." "The ship battle system will be a lock and fire system, as well." It could be a translation issue, where they are translating the French term for tab-target as lock and fire when they speak English.. But, for me tab-targeting is using the tab key (or some other key) to cycle through nearby targets rather than some form of manual aim. For instance, in NMS, there seems to be a lock assist. I don't have to be precise about my aim to lock onto a target, but I do have to move the reticle reasonably close by. With tab-target, the enemy could be behind me. I don't have to aim at all. I just hit the tab key and cycle through whatever is near me. If you know of a different moment where the devs mention tab-targeting specifically, please share. gyurka66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttley Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I understand but as explained by JC there are limitations to the tech. You cant have the game as presented at the scale DU is going for without making some sacrifices. FPS combat is one of those. As far as I understood JC when he was explaining it. True. Though I must admit to being so initially disappointed that I was (maybe still am) considering revoking my pledge. That's not a "change the game or else..." kinda threat, btw. It just seems like I'm now buying into a very different game. I must go off and meditate upon this new knowledge and choose my path accordingly. To the meditation lair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I must say I'm mightily disappointed to learn of this. In my stupidity, I had thought that sub-system tab-targeting only applied to larger vessels as this is what they were talking about in the Kickstarter video. By larger vessels, I was thinking corvette class and above. (How NQ drew distinction was something for them to figure out). My assumption was that smaller ships (like the one in the video) and FP would have the ability to turn into a traditional FPS shooter. I just hate the idea of spamming the F keys. It's one reason I could never get into EVE or WOW. No. The Avatar Vs Avatar ground combat is up for debate as of how it will work. It won't be a slugfest of standing still, that's for sure, but compromises must be made for a massive 10,000++ battle and the server blade not cracking in half. Neosphaler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Lock and fire does not necessarily mean that you cycle through nearby targets in a manner similar to tab-targeting. @Falstaf I'll double-check the Kickstarter vid. Thanks! You thought TAB on tab-targetting meant the button Tab used in WoW, didn't you? No, the Tab part of tab-targeting refers to a tab / catalogue of your avatar's stats. When I attack you in WoW, on my end the game calculates my strength , attack power and then my weapon's attack speed to determine the output. On the receiving end of my attack, the game rolls dices for dodge and parry, then it calculates the armor and mitigation bonuses. Like keeping track of stats on a pen and paper RPG, you keep a tab on those stats. Tab-targeting in general, refers to a stat based combat system, instead of a physical projectile / reactionary combat system. Well, lock-on and fire is essentialy active lock-on. Yoey already have the mining / building model in the engine, they only need to adjust it for weapons and add delay times for th effect with the different variety of weapons involved, similar to a fireball being cast in WoW and flying thourgh the air. The receiving end can deploy their shields or w/e they can do to mitigate the damage as long as the attack is "flying" through the air. Welcome to the amazing world of game development, where hiding server delay is an art onto itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decker02 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Looking forward to seeing how this shapes up; perhaps we'll learn more once they release the stretch goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 http://www.gamespot.com/forums/pc-mac-linux-society-1000004/mmo-combatmanual-action-vs-tab-targeting-29390792/ Tab Targeting: Typically called such because you can use the tab key to cycle through the available targets to lock on, click or hotkey your skill and it magically affects the target you selected, no aiming required... all you typically need to do is be facing in that general direction. These games typically feature a HUGE assortment of skills/abilities for you to choose from for your combat needs. Pretty much every old school MMORPG used this as well as later ones such as WoW, Rift, SWOTR, and pretty much any other one pre-Tera you can think of. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/938738-guild-wars-2/63800380 What is the problem with tab targeting exactly? it is simply pressing a button to toggle through targets. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1322649-Tab-Targeting-popularity-skill-and-the-future-of-MMO-combat-systems Out of the other big fighting games, The Old Republic kept tab targeting as did Rift, and Guild Wars 2 has a sort of hybrid system wher you tab target your enemy and don't have to aim abilities... https://eu.portal.sf.my.com/comments/5592fd05ac72e41b4e430531?page=17 TAB target destroys any reason at all to usee other forms of targeting. It ensures that you will always shoot at what you want. Why actively aim when you may miss when you can just tab to them and always fire at them? it cuts out a large portion of what makes action combat desirable in MMOs. https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3341/recent-feature-or-mechanic/view/page/2 Tab targeting (automatically aiming your attacks at an enemy) http://massivelyop.com/2016/02/14/mmo-mechanics-eight-annoying-mmorpg-mechanics-that-grind-my-gears/ 1: Tab targeting This one made it to the top of my fiancé’s list, and I can’t say I disagree: Although I do appreciate hybrid systems that employ tab targeting to a smaller degree, I don’t think I’ve often found such a bland, just-because mechanic as tab targeting. There’s nothing intuitive or imaginative about tab targeting, and I’m kind of glad that more exciting action combat mechanics are now in vogue. I feel as though action combat is more immersive, and I understand the geography and the nature of enemies much better when I am required to navigate fluidly around them to avoid hits and take aim. The popularity of tab targeting might be dwindling, but it’s still common enough to have made our list. http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/16283909065 This is the main problem with tab target. Sometimes you have to tab four or five times to get to the mob right next to the one you were just hitting and sometimes the mobs you tab to aren't even on your screen yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 http://www.gamespot.com/forums/pc-mac-linux-society-1000004/mmo-combatmanual-action-vs-tab-targeting-29390792/ Tab Targeting: Typically called such because you can use the tab key to cycle through available targerts to lock on, click or hotkey your skill and it magically affects the target you selected, no aiming required...all you typically need to do is being facing in that general direction. These games typically feature a HUGE assortment of skills/abilities for you to choose from for your combat needs. Pretty much every old school MMORPG used this as well as later ones such as WoW, Rift, SWTOR, and pretty much any other one pre-Tera you can think of. LOL , okay, the GameSpot. 99% console games xD. Tera is the exact same thing as WoW, only you use a mouseover tab-targeting. But you are such a peasant in WoW, you probably don't even know what a mouseover macro is xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusNerdius Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 You thought TAB on tab-targetting meant the button Tab used in WoW, didn't you? No, the Tab part of tab-targeting refers to a tab / catalogue of your avatar's stats. When I attack you in WoW, on my end the game calculates my strength , attack power and then my weapon's attack speed to determine the output. On the receiving end of my attack, the game rolls dices for dodge and parry, then it calculates the armor and mitigation bonuses. Like keeping track of stats on a pen and paper RPG, you keep a tab on those stats. Tab-targeting in general, refers to a stat based combat system, instead of a physical projectile / reactionary combat system. Well, lock-on and fire is essentialy active lock-on. Yoey already have the mining / building model in the engine, they only need to adjust it for weapons and add delay times for th effect with the different variety of weapons involved, similar to a fireball being cast in WoW and flying thourgh the air. The receiving end can deploy their shields or w/e they can do to mitigate the damage as long as the attack is "flying" through the air. Welcome to the amazing world of game development, where hiding server delay is an art onto itself. Captain is actually right here, tab targeting as a game development term commonly refers to exactly what is mentioned. Tab targeting in reference to using the tab key to switch between targets came later, when games like WoW used them. So while technically both are correct usages of the term, I feel pretty certain that the use of the term in relation to DU is certainly what Captain is referring to. Besides, as Captain pointed out - using the tab key to target in WoW was the casual / lazy way of doing it. Mouse-over was so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I think what continues to be demonstrated is that the devs have not used the term tab-target. The devs refer to lock and fire. "Lock and fire" does not inherently mean "tab-target". I don't think the origin of the meaning for tab-target is as pertinent as current common usage. Especially for an MMO. I prefer to use the terms the devs use. But, the OP can draw his own conclusions from the perspectives we've shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 You can have it both ways, in both Defiance and Tabula Rasa those games play like a shooter but it is masking the mechanics which is traditional stats based roll the dice to see if you hit, the only thing you did by aiming was select your target it did not simulate actual bullet phyiscs. Cover might be interesting should be easy to estimate how much cover your avatar has based on its proximity to voxels. Dygz_Briarthorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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