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"Game" is too hard


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It's not really a game, just a simulator, but a good one, for sure.

 

Okay, first off, I'm old.  When I was in my 20's and 30's I could learn programming languages, but that was long time ago.  Learned COBOL on punch card machines in the 70's.  Loved UNIX, before Linux came around.  Loved Linux too.  Today, I can't learn LUA, html, etc.  It's just too hard for old people to learn.  I also can't learn the RDMS system, nor the voxelmancy system.  I've tried.  God I've tried.  It's just too hard.  About as intuitive as brain surgery, which I can't learn either.

 

I've been playing since first day of open beta.  Things I enjoy most are designing and building my own ships, then flying them manually.  Don't need no fancy hud.  Definitely don't want auto launch, auto land, auto flight, auto hover, auto anything.  The default hud from the hover chair is good enough for me.  That fancy dementia HUD the fonts are way too small to see anything anyways.

 

Instead of making the game easier, it seems they keep making it harder.  I make alot of ships, and share them with my corp and friends.  Now I can't even do that anymore.  They disabled sharing, something about setting a policy in RDMS.  Jesus Christ, just let me share my stuff again.  Let me worry about the friends I choose, that's my problem, not yours.  At least I can control that much.

 

Not having any fun.  It would be nice to head out and explore something.  Anything.  Asteroid belts.  Remote solar systems.  Been to all the existing planets.  They're all pretty much deserted now.  Lots of graveyards, bases and ships with nobody there.  Kinda creepy.  Dead.  Nothing to do.  All the good stuff mined out.  Ghost town.

 

The only excitement left is hanging out at a market, and watching the idiots come crashing in, because they're too lazy to learn how to fly manually.  They use auto scripts, then cry when their ship crashes.  Watching burning ships gets old too after a while.

 

It's a shame they aren't going to add PVE.  Then you could actually call it a game.  For now, it's just a really cool simulator that multiple people can share.  But it's still too hard.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, pewpewpew said:

Instead of making the game easier, it seems they keep making it harder.  I make alot of ships, and share them with my corp and friends.  Now I can't even do that anymore.  They disabled sharing, something about setting a policy in RDMS. 

 

Did you actually read the information or just glance over it as it appears you missed the part where you, as the creator, get to choose to remove the copy restrictions if you want..

 

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Moreover, the creator of the construct can also decide to come and remove the DRM protection of the whole construct (by right-clicking on the Core Unit), or of one particular Control Unit/Screen Unit if he wants to (warning: this action is not reversible). Make sure, however, to check if the DRM flag for voxels is global or not. If it is, and you add a beautiful sculpture to the construct, you will not be able to copy-paste it out of the construct. You should rather make your own Master Construct for this kind of action.

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When you implement a protective measure, extra steps are needed to remove them yes. You build a ship, right click the core and remove the RDM preventing the new owner from making copies or blueprints once you have transferred ownership which generally need to be done in person anyway. You're right, that is so much harder, i guess it takes you.. a whole 10 seconds at most to remove the RDM protection. /s

 

Also, as you may not be aware, this change is actually not making things harder at all since currently a new owner simply can't make blueprints at all from a construct you created even if they have full access. You can copy over voxels and rebuild the ship but that is generally and for most too much of a hassle anyway.

 

Now if you want to argue that this mechanic does not cover the situation of you handing over a blueprint with this option removed and you would need to travel to the location the owner spawns the blueprint you might have a point. An opportunity might be missed here for NQ.

 

And I say "might" as you assume this is the case and have no confirmation of this and knowing how NQ is not unknown for vague announcement where important details are left out or overlooked, it is well possible that removing this DRM setting before making a blueprint would result in a "free to do what you want" version of that Blueprint for whoever you give it to.

 

So why not instead raise the issue with NQ through a tickets or maybe.. ask  a community manager like @NQ-Naunet who may well have it  in her power to get confirmation of this and/or address it as it woud be a valid concern IMO.

 

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I've been summoned! 👋 Hi!

@pewpewpew , I can absolutely see where you're coming from. I'm sorry you've been having a difficult time with the recent changes! We certainly don't want the game to feel completely inaccessible to those who aren't interested in the coding side of things.

To be more specific, I can see how it might feel frustrating to settle into the groove of one style of gameplay (building and sharing ships), only to have that changed. It sounds like a large part of the issue for you was a lack of information - how do you think we could improve the way we communicate updates like this? :) 

 

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The man has a point! Personally I am qualified to do the maintenance logbook (sign for the maintenance work) of specific models of aircraft, I have real life experience with aircrafts, and there are people that I mentor, and my god, I could not fly in this game! I build a ship according to the game's mechanics and applying what I know in real-life, I right click the cockpit and choose "auto config flying construct", and from there without touching anything, it already crashed! How is this accessible if someone like me with real-life aircraft experience, training, and education cannot even make a plane work in this game?

 

It is not accessible and that is coming from an aircraft mechanic!

 

For example, the weight and balance: how does this work in the game? Where is the C.of.G? Aircraft stalls because of Critical Angle of Attack. Are any of these visualized in the game? Where is the C.of.G if you don't let me know where it is while I'm building in Build Mode? (preferably you want this on the wing on empty weight by design) A.O.A is the angle between relative wind (the direction of flight which is opposite to airflow direction, they are the same line) and the chord line of the wing, Where is that? People here confuse Pitch Angle with A.O.A, they are not the same thing! Angle of Incidence is fixed (wings in this game do not move relative to the aircraft where you fixed it), and there is a fixed A.O.A when the aircraft is on ground because of this. When you are flying and you are changing Pitch Angle, it is this that changes the A.O.A! Pitch Angle will change, you will use Lua to calculate your A.O.A and spit you the information. Where are these information to begin with? If your C.of.G location changes, just like in a lever, it affects your Pitch Angle, Which affects your A.O.A, which affects your lift, which affects the safety of your aircraft and your cargo. No information to work with, so it doesn't matter if I am a mechanic! How can I tell my A.O.A if I don't have the information to use to calculate my A.O.A? How do I do weight and balance if I don't have the information as well?

 

Cannot build and cannot fly! I have a better chance of building my own plane (manned or unmanned) in real-life and make it work successfully than in this game! I hate to break it to you, it is harder than in real-life!

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18 minutes ago, Eternal said:

The man has a point! Personally I am qualified to do the maintenance logbook (sign for the maintenance work) of specific models of aircraft, I have real life experience with aircrafts, and there are people that I mentor, and my god, I could not fly in this game! I build a ship according to the game's mechanics and applying what I know in real-life, I right click the cockpit and choose "auto config flying construct", and from there without touching anything, it already crashed! How is this accessible if someone like me with real-life aircraft experience, training, and education cannot even make a plane work in this game?

 

It is not accessible and that is coming from an aircraft mechanic!

 

For example, the weight and balance: how does this work in the game? Where is the C.of.G? Aircraft stalls because of Critical Angle of Attack. Are any of these visualized in the game? Where is the C.of.G if you don't let me know where it is while I'm building in Build Mode? (preferably you want this on the wing on empty weight by design) A.O.A is the angle between relative wind (the direction of flight which is opposite to airflow direction, they are the same line) and the chord line of the wing, Where is that? People here confuse Pitch Angle with A.O.A, they are not the same thing! Angle of Incidence is fixed (wings in this game do not move relative to the aircraft where you fixed it), and there is a fixed A.O.A when the aircraft is on ground because of this. When you are flying and you are changing Pitch Angle, it is this that changes the A.O.A! Pitch Angle will change, you will use Lua to calculate your A.O.A and spit you the information. Where are these information to begin with? If your C.of.G location changes, just like in a lever, it affects your Pitch Angle, Which affects your A.O.A, which affects your lift, which affects the safety of your aircraft and your cargo. No information to work with, so it doesn't matter if I am a mechanic! How can I tell my A.O.A if I don't have the information to use to calculate my A.O.A? How do I do weight and balance if I don't have the information as well?

 

Cannot build and cannot fly! 

In most games all forces are applied to the center of mass , only exception is the torque to rotate it.I think angle of incidence isn't fixed is dynamic meaning it will give you as much as you need  up to the element limit at certain speed taxing you in drag progresively in the process.

 

COG is shown in the builder menu , it isnt relevant for flight model . You can place the wings where you want .No need to place the wings close to that point they wont create torque to rotate the plane.The biggest usefulness is to place the container hud on top of it because the game consider all the mass in the containers there so turning become easy due to reduced inertia (the cargo its in theory 0) .Just make sure your inertia matrix is somewhat free of xz xy and your life would be much easier.

 

Don't bother with all you know about aircraft, this is a game and plays like such.It's really simple to flight , you don't need your aircraft  knowledge at all.

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5 minutes ago, Hiturn said:

I think angle of incidence isn't fixed is dynamic meaning it will give you as much as you need you need up to the element limit taxing you in drag progresively in the process.

Angle of Incidence is fixed by design (so this number does not change and it is given by design). Angle of Incidence is the chord line of the wing and the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. Longitudinal axis of aircraft can change as aircraft changes pitch, but the wing will move with it because the wing is fixed to the aircraft and the chord line does not change relative to this axis. It is a fixed number because the wing is fixed (it doesn't tilt and no Wing Element in this game can tilt).

 

There are few aircrafts (rare) in real-life which can tilt their wings (variable wings).

 tech-incidence-angles-4.jpg  

If it can tilt, you can vary your angle of incidence, otherwise it is fixed. Almost all aircrafts have a fixed wing, that's why they call it fixed-wing (they don't tilt). Pitch Angle will change as you vary your pitch and you can use this to calculate the A.O.A. using Lua! It is simple man!

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4 minutes ago, Eternal said:

Angle of Incidence is fixed by design (so this number does not change and it is given by design). Angle of Incidence is the chord line of the wing and the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. Longitudinal axis of aircraft can change as aircraft changes pitch, but the wing will move with it because the wing is fixed to the aircraft and the chord line does not change relative to this axis. It is a fixed number because the wing is fixed (it doesn't tilt and no Wing Element in this game can tilt).

 

There are few aircrafts (rare) in real-life which can tilt their wings (variable wings).

 tech-incidence-angles-4.jpg  

If it can tilt, you can vary your angle of incidence, otherwise it is fixed. Almost all aircrafts have a fixed wing, that's why they call it fixed-wing (they don't tilt). Pitch Angle will change as you vary your pitch and you can use this to calculate the A.O.A. using Lua! It is simple man!

I was talking about the game not IRL .

 

I studied aeronautical engineering at university I know how this work you don't need to educate me . 

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this is an attitude indicator.

rca2600-3pitch.jpg

There is a limit to pitch angle before you stall and crash. This is how it works in this game: you will crash test experimental planes to figure out this critical pitch angle and you will put this information on the aircraft's operations manual. 

The "stall angle" information on elements means nothing to me since I cannot use that information. 

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6 hours ago, NQ-Naunet said:

I've been summoned! 👋 Hi!

@pewpewpew , I can absolutely see where you're coming from. I'm sorry you've been having a difficult time with the recent changes! We certainly don't want the game to feel completely inaccessible to those who aren't interested in the coding side of things.

To be more specific, I can see how it might feel frustrating to settle into the groove of one style of gameplay (building and sharing ships), only to have that changed. It sounds like a large part of the issue for you was a lack of information - how do you think we could improve the way we communicate updates like this? :) 

 

I’m a new player as well and finding information on the game is almost impossible. The only option seems to be Discord which is mostly vets talking among themselves. That or YouTube videos which are horrible for specific information and time to information investment.

 

One thing that would make a HUGE difference would be to have an accurate, actively updated wiki with detailed information and player made guides and FAQ’s.

 

The current wiki is really bad. It doesn’t even have basic info like what planets have what ores or the difference between a military engine and a freight. Let alone details on RDMS or Voxelmancy.

 

I understand devs can’t really take the time for this, but bringing in some experienced players to do so would make a massive difference. If you could take steps to actively encourage a detailed and up-to-date wiki I think it would be the single most effective initiative that could be taken.

 

Consider maybe pulling together a circle of players willing to do so and encourage them with some perks like an exclusive “lore master” form titles, in-game skin, etc...

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Eternal said:

Then they give me "stall angle". what is the significance of this to me?

When your movement and the plane has an angle bigger than X different for some parts  stall it may seem like IRL.Some parts have very high stall angles like alierons like 70º wings have around 30º (numbers out of my head but you get the idea) but it is scripted dont expect real life behaviour meaning you wont ascend if you place too many wings point forward and the lift at certain speed is bigger than weight somehow it doesnt happen.I am not sure what happens when u place the wings in an angle I didnt test it but again remember some behaviour might be unnatural its possible that you see that they do not consider that angle and just the plane-wind .You can also see some wings producing lift and others with very little while in identical /symetrical positions.Use the flight toolbar for that.

 

To put you an example the way I reentry in the game is quite simple you enter vertically and as soon you hit atmo you always want as much angle to the vertical before it stalls and further increasing it as your speed vector start getting "more  horizontal" to always have that angle.

 

Press X until forces are displayed and you can toy with it youself.I dont remember now if there is any otherdifference than stall angles for stabs vs wings (using them as wings) for example.

 

For games flight models need to be dumbed down otherwise players wont be able to fly straight or fly at all and cosmetic designs would not be allowed. For example in my ships I use the wings glued to a rear vertical stab , in real life the ship will try to point upwards like crazy, here you dont care and Its better this way.

 

I hope this helps ;)

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26 minutes ago, Hiturn said:

I am not sure what happens when u place the wings in an angle I didnt test it but again remember some behaviour might be unnatural its possible that you see that they do not consider that angle and just the plane-wind .

I was thinking of angling the wings as well. If you don't angle it, how are you gonna get relative wind? In real-life, wings are angled for more A.O.A (enough that you can take-off with it). I don't know what will happen unless I test it in the game. Does it really increase your A.O.A? (more lift coefficient?) I don't know! Things like this has to be tested. It's not about the comparison to real-life but the lack of info.

 

34 minutes ago, Detroitdregs said:

finding information on the game is almost impossible.

This is the problem: lack of info. 

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I don't program in this game (yet), I use the default flight configuration, and my god, the ship is uncontrollable. It is too hard! 

And another problem in this game is the programming: you are modding with LUA and flight in this game is programmed in Lua so you have to understand the flight modules. Too hard man! If I'm not good at programming (and I can program), I can delegate the work, sure I will delegate that through collaboration. What am I gonna do? I will design the airframe, and here is the problem here. You have to voxelmance if you are working with voxels. Too hard and everything in this game is too hard!

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2 hours ago, Eternal said:

I was thinking of angling the wings as well. If you don't angle it, how are you gonna get relative wind? In real-life, wings are angled for more A.O.A (enough that you can take-off with it). I don't know what will happen unless I test it in the game. Does it really increase your A.O.A? (more lift coefficient?) I don't know! Things like this has to be tested. It's not about the comparison to real-life but the lack of info.

 

This is the problem: lack of info. 

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I don't program in this game (yet), I use the default flight configuration, and my god, the ship is uncontrollable. It is too hard! 

And another problem in this game is the programming: you are modding with LUA and flight in this game is programmed in Lua so you have to understand the flight modules. Too hard man! If I'm not good at programming (and I can program), I can delegate the work, sure I will delegate that through collaboration. What am I gonna do? I will design the airframe, and here is the problem here. You have to voxelmance if you are working with voxels. Too hard and everything in this game is too hard!

I use the default too — it varies if you are using a hover controller vrs command seat I’ve noticed.

 

best tip I can give is to either have a strip of voxels coming out of the front and back (center) with an adjustor(s) on each side (up, down, left, right) or to put them in each corner of the ship (up, down and out). You need 8-9 adjusters of adequate size, min.

 

I use (with command seat and Keyboard Controls) the following key binds: W for Throttle up, S for Throttle down, Z for pitch up and C for pitch down.

 

I rebound hover down to my mouse button.

 

The trick to take off is Space(hover up) > Z (pitch up), W Throttle up.

 

Keep A an an D, for turn and correct Yaw with Q and R as needed while cruising. 
 

Feather Throttle up and Down to cruise around 3/4 speed.

 

When landing: Throttle down to 1/4, brake (alt) as needed, Pitch down to get to under 300 meters, and start tapping alt to get under 200 kph, scale down to 100 kph by 100 meters while pitching up to level by 50, brake, Space to hover and throttle to 0.

 

I start pitching down and reducing throttle from 3/4 about 10k out, going down from 3/4 to 0 throttle in proportion from my distance.

 

The key imo is hack adequate brakes and adjusters set up as described. Beyond that it’s all gradually nudging pitch and throttle. 
 

I really recommend not using mouse control or virtual joystick, it can feel smoother but imo offers less nuanced control.
 

Hope that helps make default easier.

 

 

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