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spaceDJ

self replicating robots

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Do you want the Borg? coz that is how you get the Borg

you got'em already. you cannot escape, resistance is futile.

 

On a side note, there is a way to make those a balanced part of the gameplay:

 

make them extremely difficult to balance (make replication factories super heavy, make limitations on the cpu usage etc... this would limit it quite a lot but would still be possible. i think it could be a good 'end game-ish' feature that would allow an overwhelming power to emerge and disrupt existing politics, create coalitions, force trust, forge alliances until the threat is over. It would be the best motivation there is: destroy the borg.

 

they would evolve in parallel, with real actual evolutive AI (not as complicated as you may think). evolutive AI can be extremely powerful if well evolved, but really weak at the start because it doesn't know how anything works. imagine a maggot like intelligence becoming a superhuman one. without emotion. perfect.

 

with the lore it could fit in if it is discovered later in game.

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Well a replicator factory is going to have to be attached to an inventory containing resources and those will need to be produced from raw materials so you will have quite a large supply chain to feed that factory.

indeed that is why pure liberalism shall prevail. Limiting us will only result in negative results in game, since you will never be able to analyze the development of omnipotent beings in their natural habitat. Could be an interresting sociological study.

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I think that's what excites me about this game, its a chance to try out different ideas about economic and political philosophy. Lets see if someone can makes space communism

 

we are borg, the metaphorical cultish-space-commies.

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"

I wish you a good day, spaceDJ. 

 

Self replicating robots are a blessing and a curse. In this case, the curse outweighs the blessing and the developers should know this as well. 

 

What kind of self-replicating drones? Military or civilian oriented? Well, to create robots, you are going to have to assemble them. To assemble them, you need the resources. To get the resources, you need to mine the resources. To mine the resources, you need look for the resources. A robot can do that with restricted LUA functionality? Impressive. I want to see you do that. 

 

Alternatively, you could use a factory--they are by no means going to be cheap, especially if you have mass production in mind. Building drones, too isn't going to be easy, it would be a bad oversight for the developers to make it simple and quick to obtain power on such a scale. Factories, are in way like robots that produce ships, vehicles, gadgets, weapons and whatever else you have the blueprints and resources for. But to produce a robot that can effectively do everything involved in building another robot, I'm sorry to tell you that it may not be possible in Dual Universe for a long time--if ever.

"

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"

I wish you a good day, spaceDJ. 

 

Self replicating robots are a blessing and a curse. In this case, the curse outweighs the blessing and the developers should know this as well. 

 

What kind of self-replicating drones? Military or civilian oriented? Well, to create robots, you are going to have to assemble them. To assemble them, you need the resources. To get the resources, you need to mine the resources. To mine the resources, you need look for the resources. A robot can do that with restricted LUA functionality? Impressive. I want to see you do that. 

 

Alternatively, you could use a factory--they are by no means going to be cheap, especially if you have mass production in mind. Building drones, too isn't going to be easy, it would be a bad oversight for the developers to make it simple and quick to obtain power on such a scale. Factories, are in way like robots that produce ships, vehicles, gadgets, weapons and whatever else you have the blueprints and resources for. But to produce a robot that can effectively do everything involved in building another robot, I'm sorry to tell you that it may not be possible in Dual Universe for a long time--if ever.

"

 

the shear effort involved in making self replicated robots, and having set up adequate AI to maintain it is worth a PhD, so it shouldn't be impossible, just really, really hard. I think they will provide api bindings to allow you to host a server to maintain infrastructure when you are offline, and if you have enough computational power you can let it autopilot drones and vessels. the problem is that NQ wont have control over the internals of your server, and will thus obligatorily have to compute physics server side and send back the input (sensor data, visual data, ship/struct status) and you can tell the ai to then send keyborard/instructions to pilot, manage your things. I think that is the only way to remain hacker free (with the input as only keyboard or other commands/instructions) because else you wouldn't be able to verify the validity of the turret rotation/position etc...

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the shear effort involved in making self replicated robots, and having set up adequate AI to maintain it is worth a PhD, so it shouldn't be impossible, just really, really hard. I think they will provide api bindings to allow you to host a server to maintain infrastructure when you are offline, and if you have enough computational power you can let it autopilot drones and vessels. the problem is that NQ wont have control over the internals of your server, and will thus obligatorily have to compute physics server side and send back the input (sensor data, visual data, ship/struct status) and you can tell the ai to then send keyborard/instructions to pilot, manage your things. I think that is the only way to remain hacker free (with the input as only keyboard or other commands/instructions) because else you wouldn't be able to verify the validity of the turret rotation/position etc...

 

i would like to had the fact that creating any matter would requiere previously gathered matter

so the self replicating bot, could only be possible if you can incorporate to it an inventory

 

If can add the self mining functions, then its the end of the world

 

i think self production lines are more conceivable than self replicating stuff

Unlike in SL where you could put the object itself in its own inventory and rez it indefenitly

 

Sarah Connor?

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i would like to had the fact that creating any matter would requiere previously gathered matter

so the self replicating bot, could only be possible if you can incorporate to it an inventory

 

If can add the self mining functions, then its the end of the world

 

i think self production lines are more conceivable than self replicating stuff

Unlike in SL where you could put the object itself in its own inventory and rez it indefenitly

 

Sarah Connor?

 

with self replicating bot i imply an automated mining/crafting production chain behind of course (which is most of the work).

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Hate to spoil the fun, but currently resource collection is exclusively by hand, with no indication that it will change. Also, the scripts that the robots will rely on to run will only run if players, probably just the owner, is close by. Also we have no idea if grid construction can be automated or scriptet.

 

So apart from the fact that each mechanic that this will require to work has either been confirmed to not be a part of the game, or has had no mention at all, great work! :(

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Hate to spoil the fun, but currently resource collection is exclusively by hand, with no indication that it will change. Also, the scripts that the robots will rely on to run will only run if players, probably just the owner, is close by. Also we have no idea if grid construction can be automated or scriptet.

 

So apart from the fact that each mechanic that this will require to work has either been confirmed to not be a part of the game, or has had no mention at all, great work! :(

 

ideas change.

 

it is especially good that these features do not exist as that means we will be able to influence them.

 

Optimism my friend :D

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Hate to spoil the fun, but currently resource collection is exclusively by hand

 Source?

 

I do believe it is not in their main interest to allow player to create such creatures, but be sure they will be many of us to try it anyway ^^

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Source?

 

I do believe it is not in their main interest to allow player to create such creatures, but be sure they will be many of us to try it anyway ^^

The wiki section on Material states that it is collected and seployed via your nanoformer, which us a hand tool

http://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Material

The nanoformer is described as being built into your right arm

http://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Nanoformer

 

AKA material collection and placement is by hand.

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The wiki section on Material states that it is collected and seployed via your nanoformer, which us a hand tool

http://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Material

The nanoformer is described as being built into your right arm

http://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Nanoformer

 

AKA material collection and placement is by hand.

 

Ok, but that's on the current wiki. How frequently is it updated? Is it actually up to date?

 

It may also be possible that the future we will get to dig with more powerful tools and who knows, those tools may be usable by an automated construct.

 

Hope will keep us going!

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Ok, but that's on the current wiki. How frequently is it updated? Is it actually up to date?

 

It may also be possible that the future we will get to dig with more powerful tools and who knows, those tools may be usable by an automated construct.

 

Hope will keep us going!

 

"hello, my name is steve, i have been mining for 20 years in DU, and look at that hole over there, it's my life's work, 1 million cubic meters"

 

this is absurd, having a futuristic game and having no mining automation...

 

best mining automation would be analytical vein depletion, instead of voxel removal, thus reducing the server cost.

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"hello, my name is steve, i have been mining for 20 years in DU, and look at that hole over there, it's my life's work, 1 million cubic meters"

 

this is absurd, having a futuristic game and having no mining automation...

 

best mining automation would be analytical vein depletion, instead of voxel removal, thus reducing the server cost.

"Hey game dev, implement a feature that reduces server cost so that I can cause it to implode with self-replicating nanites" yeah great suggestion.

 

I beleive it was during the Q&A that they wanted exploration and resource collection to be a personal experience, and they wanted to incentivise players to explore by making resource collection by-hand only. Even if that changes, I highly doubt they will allow players to automate construction.

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"Hey game dev, implement a feature that reduces server cost so that I can cause it to implode with self-replicating nanites" yeah great suggestion.

 

I beleive it was during the Q&A that they wanted exploration and resource collection to be a personal experience, and they wanted to incentivise players to explore by making resource collection by-hand only. Even if that changes, I highly doubt they will allow players to automate construction.

 

they wanted to make resource prospecting a social thing wich is good and should be, but there is no point in making mining one, as it will be quite boring with huge ore veins.

 

resource prospecting is you go on a planet, take samples analyze them and detect what ores lye beneath the surface, and then sell the location to a mining corp.

 

mining is, remove voxels, deposit: repeat.

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they wanted to make resource prospecting a social thing wich is good and should be, but there is no point in making mining one, as it will be quite boring with huge ore veins.

 

resource prospecting is you go on a planet, take samples analyze them and detect what ores lye beneath the surface, and then sell the location to a mining corp.

 

mining is, remove voxels, deposit: repeat.

 

If mining is boring, then people might just pay good credits for large volumes of ore. As a minecraft player, I can tell you that different people enjoy different aspects of that game, but sometimes being able to put on some netflix and just dig for a while can be nice, especially if it goes quickly.

 

Digging by hand might be very efficient in this game. We aren't really sure since Alpha isn't out yet little lone beta. We might find that players spend more time prospecting, and that mining is the quickest part. It may be that transporting and refining ends up being the riskiest/most time intensive part.

 

For now though, there isn't enough out there for us to guess, but there is plenty out there to say that the Dev's won't want the MMO to suffer a performance hit because of a self-replicating drone army.

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If mining is boring, then people might just pay good credits for large volumes of ore. As a minecraft player, I can tell you that different people enjoy different aspects of that game, but sometimes being able to put on some netflix and just dig for a while can be nice, especially if it goes quickly.

 

Digging by hand might be very efficient in this game. We aren't really sure since Alpha isn't out yet little lone beta. We might find that players spend more time prospecting, and that mining is the quickest part. It may be that transporting and refining ends up being the riskiest/most time intensive part.

 

True so wait and see.

 

 

For now though, there isn't enough out there for us to guess, but there is plenty out there to say that the Dev's won't want the MMO to suffer a performance hit because of a self-replicating drone army.

 

There is plenty of way to avoid any server stress and they have already implemented one : the scripts are client-side run.

 

Others might be :

- Limiting the CPU power of a script with a soft cap such as the more CPU it needs, the more resources (fuel and so what) it takes exponentially.

- Limiting CPU-consuming scripts to be ran on external servers only. (Like the API system of @iWicpar)

- Limiting the total CPU usage of a script to X altogether

- Force quitting a script that consumes too much CPU

- Name it...

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If mining is boring, then people might just pay good credits for large volumes of ore. As a minecraft player, I can tell you that different people enjoy different aspects of that game, but sometimes being able to put on some netflix and just dig for a while can be nice, especially if it goes quickly.

 

Digging by hand might be very efficient in this game. We aren't really sure since Alpha isn't out yet little lone beta. We might find that players spend more time prospecting, and that mining is the quickest part. It may be that transporting and refining ends up being the riskiest/most time intensive part.

 

For now though, there isn't enough out there for us to guess, but there is plenty out there to say that the Dev's won't want the MMO to suffer a performance hit because of a self-replicating drone army.

 

the best analogy you may have to DY is terrafirmacraft ore veins, 10 times bigger. you alrady get bored on TFC veins, you are gonna die on the DU ones.

 

But.

There are two choices to make:

Big and fast or Slow and small

 

If mining, prospecting goes to useable components in less than a few hours, we will have a game with massive starships, starbases, battles and frickin planet eaters. It will be like star wars.

 

If the production chain is slow we will have a gameplay that is based on medium sized ships and medium sized starbases, small colonies, war is to be avoided and politics are really bureaucratic. it will be like star trek (ignoring the borg).

 

this subtility makes a massive difference in the gameplay, and people seem to ignore it, and that's sad, because it can be the difference between a good and a boring game, with nearly no dev cost (just change some parameters)

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Hey peole bust one word.

It wont work, i have tried, the mojerity of players wont like it. And nations will see it as a threath and they will destroy them before you even can say. "I am supreme!" Belive me, i have tried alot of times. On SE.

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Hey peole bust one word.

It wont work, i have tried, the mojerity of players wont like it. And nations will see it as a threath and they will destroy them before you even can say. "I am supreme!" Belive me, i have tried alot of times. On SE.

 

Well you always have the possibility to seclude yourself in a faraway planet to have enough time to create the replicating army before the first settlers come.

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a lot of you think self replicating bots will be OP.

Self replicating bots imply a fully automated production line, all managed by bots, and that will not likely be implmented. But if it does: it would be OP against one opponent, in a combat. if well enough programmed it could conquer the universe. But this is not about perfect balance, it is about perfect imbalance. What would happen is that big companies will see it as a threat and attack it together. during that a small armada goes behind their lines and destroys their resource production line, which will result in their doom.

 

thing is if you do it with front line battles only, you won't win... but if you use tactics and strategy, you will always triumph over AI as it does not have as much hindsight as a human.

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Hey, I've been digging and I found this post from NQ-Nyzaltar : https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/335-player-systematics/?view=findpost&p=1269

 

At the question :

TheSlaxx, on 19 Dec 2015 - 2:43 PM, said:

 

If you can program machines via LUA, can you create self-replicating machines and build-bots?

 

He answered :

 

 

For the time being, nothing prevents it, if you have smart enough machines (with a "home made" LUA script) able to use a Factory Unit (as described recently on Facebook and Twitter). However, we might limitate the possibilities on this field, for game balance purposes. But this is still an ongoing internal topic in the team.

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

 

 

So it seems to be possible but with limitations.

 

Good news :) (actually old news ^^)

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Hey, I've been digging and I found this post from NQ-Nyzaltar : https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/335-player-systematics/?view=findpost&p=1269

 

At the question :

 

He answered :

 

 

So it seems to be possible but with limitations.

 

Good news :) (actually old news ^^)

 

it can be OP as a resource gathering faction, but can be very weak in a strategic war, thus is inherently balanced by the mechanics the players are bound to. Imagine a bunch of ants playing the game.

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