FPS Combat?

[CoreVamore]

2 hours ago, vylqun said:

Honestly? I doubt that. Just look at the kickstarter description, the dev diary concerning combat, or if thats to old for you, maybe read the newest MassivelyOP interview? There are really more than enough sources, people just have to use google for 5 minutes...

I did, and CANNOT find any reference for combat nor fps being limited to just a several hundred characters. There is not even any mention of large scale combat in the MassivelyOP interview. So, link your source please otherwise Im treating this as missinformation as DU is meant to be able to handle hundreds/thousands of players in one spot - its the whole reason that the underlying technology exists!

 

Here is my reference:

 

BTW the demo shown in this example shows over 100 (my guess is that its 200+ players) moving around.

 

So please go on and link your proof that combat will be limited.

[Lethys]

On 29.4.2018 at 12:11 PM, Mod-Merwyn said:

Indeed, Lethys summarized it well.

Here are some references from Nyzaltar:

• https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/841-ask-us-anything-event/&tab=comments#comment-8072
• https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/841-ask-us-anything-event/&do=findComment&comment=12396
• https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/407-hello-from-deaf-gamer/&tab=comments#comment-2994

~ Mewryn

I already summerized it earlier and merwyn got you the links. Read them. That's all me or @vylqun ever said. Proof ftw

[CoreVamore]

16 minutes ago, Lethys said:

I already summerized it earlier and merwyn got you the links. Read them. That's all me or @vylqun ever said. Proof ftw

I have no issues with those links Lethys, however, none say that there wont be any fps, not that DU cant handle a few hundred characters fighting in the same place, Those links actually indicated that they have tested for 10,000 characters in the one place, so if anything it proves that large scale PVP/fps (non construct) battles are possible.

 

Considering that NQ is just now starting to look at implementing construct vs construct PvP I believe its way to early to say with certainty that there wont be any character based PvP/fps. And I reiterate I haven't seen anywhere where NQ have said there wont be a fps aspect to the game. After all a fps aspect is usually not much more than bringing the players viewing camera forward and animating some arm/gun/scope actions. The rest of the calcs needed to be done would be done regardless of if view was in fps view or isometric/over the shoulder view.

 

So lets see what NQ comes up with

 

[vylqun]

3 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

I did, and CANNOT find any reference for combat nor fps being limited to just a several hundred characters. There is not even any mention of large scale combat in the MassivelyOP interview. So, link your source please otherwise Im treating this as missinformation [...]

Really now?

In the part called "scalable combat"

nearly the whole article

paragraph "Odds and Ends"

 

I don't really want to further comment on your ability to find information, i even told you where to look!. If you don't read whole articles, at least use the text search function and look for "lock"...

There is a big difference in having thousands of people fighting in close range and having thousands of people fighting in close range with a fps system, especially because battles in DU isn't limited to a few dozen predefined vehicles as in planetside. In planetside, if a new player joins a battle, the server just tells the clients that there is vehicle x at location y, the client then loads the locally saved files. If in DU a new player joins the battle, then the server doesn't just need to convey the location, it needs to give a complete set of informaton about a unique construct with all its elements and weapons to all clients. Thats A LOT more information than any mmo fps has to handle, and i don't even want to begin talking about handling the individual damage. So comparing other games where hundreds of players can fight in an Arena of limited size and DU is like comparing the power consumption of a high end pc and a calculator.

 

Quote

After all a fps aspect is usually not much more than bringing the players viewing camera forward and animating some arm/gun/scope actions. The rest of the calcs needed to be done would be done regardless of if view was in fps view or isometric/over the shoulder view.

No, fps normally involves projectile physics where, for example, its possible to "catch" the bullets meant for other people if you're in the way. Lock and fire means the server registers one single/construct as your target with no calculations considering a physical projectile are done, you basically shoot through other players if they move between you (except if there is a mechanic to verify line of sight)

 

You can simulate pseudo fps with targeting cones etc. but we will see if they manage to do this, as thats always somehting done clientside and thus not that hard to hack.

[Lethys]

2 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

have no issues with those links Lethys, however, none say that there wont be any fps, not that DU cant handle a few hundred characters fighting in the same place, Those links actually indicated that they have tested for 10,000 characters in the one place, so if anything it proves that large scale PVP/fps (non construct) battles are possible

And noone actually ever said that Du can't handle a few hundred players. 

 

A true reflex based fps can't handle sich an amount that well (why do you think Battlefield is limited to some dozen players?)

 

DU is designed as single shard MMO. As such it can handle thousands of players. But to achieve that you can't have a true fps. It's all formulas and hit chance

[CoreVamore]

11 minutes ago, vylqun said:

Really now?

In the part called "scalable combat"

nearly the whole article

paragraph "Odds and Ends"

 

I don't really want to further comment on your ability to find information, i even told you where to look!. If you don't read whole articles, at least use the text search function and look for "lock"...

 

Thanks for the links, however, none of them say there wont be a fps mode, just that the :" targeting system will be based on a “lock and fire” mechanism, which means it will not be a reflex-based traditional FPS system. However, depending on the weapon, the “lock” and the “fire” part could be combined into one single action, with the locking done based on whatever it is aimed at in the central reticle of your view."

 

Which means it will have a fps mode, that it can handle hundreds/thousands of players in one location.

 

My ability to find information is fine, as well as read it. Narrowly defining fps as a specific form of fps (reflex action fps) is misleading. Its like saying that a plate of spaghetti and meatballs is not spaghetti and meatballs because they are arranged differently and the meatballs are 5mm smaller than regulation. Or saying a touring car race isnt a car race because they arent F1 cars.

 

I have never played planetside, and it doesnt matter as its not built on the same foundation that DU is. I fully expect DU to be able to handle hundreds of players and vehicles and constructs in the same big blood bath area - it is what underpins them, and I think they will be able to pull it of, they actually do have to pull it off to have a major advantage over other games. So I do not accept your assumptions as to what WONT be possible on a platform that has never been used before.

 

 

I also understand what you are saying @Lethys

We are basically saying the same thing. Just our terms are different. I consider something as FPS if the player is playing in first person mode, no matter what mechanics underlie its aim/fire mechanism, its still first person.

 

So this all basically comes down to definitions of what 'fps' actually means.

 

I will simply end with this : Just because I am racing in my beat up car, and not a purpose built race car, doesnt mean I still cant have a car race - and doesnt mean its not a car race

 

 

[vylqun]

3 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

So this all basically comes down to definitions of what 'fps' actually means.

 

I will simply end with this : Just because I am racing in my beat up car, and not a purpose built race car, doesnt mean I still cant have a car race - and doesnt mean its not a car race

 

Ok, if you define playing an mmorpg like anarchy online, wow or whatever in first person camera means its a fps then, by your definition of fps, DU will certainly be a fps. But even though this definition of fps is conform to the original use of the word, the meaning in today's gaming industry is quite different.

[CoreVamore]

16 minutes ago, Lethys said:

And noone actually ever said that Du can't handle a few hundred players. 

Actually @lysander

said: I didn't say it's possible for this game. the person I answer just said it's impossible to handle hundred people in an fps game so i answer planetside.
but I know it's not possible for dual universe.

 

However on further reading his previous comments I think what he wrote above was not expressing what he wanted to actually say. In hindsight I think he meant that DU could actually handle hundreds of players.

 

[CoreVamore]

9 minutes ago, vylqun said:

Ok, if you define playing an mmorpg like anarchy online, wow or whatever in first person camera means its a fps then, by your definition of fps, DU will certainly be a fps. But even though this definition of fps is conform to the original use of the word, the meaning in today's gaming industry is quite different.

Then what is the 'modern' definition? As Ive just looked up several definitions, including one by the xbox team and they all define it as I have without any mention of underlying mechanics.

 

So please enlighten me as to what a 'modern' fps is

 

[vylqun]

1 minute ago, CoreVamore said:

Then what is the 'modern' definition?

i said meaning, not definition, that's an important difference. As for what is regarded as fps, i already wrote it in a post earlier.

[CoreVamore]

9 minutes ago, vylqun said:

i said meaning, not definition, that's an important difference. As for what is regarded as fps, i already wrote it in a post earlier.

omg you mean the post you added to three times....... that makes it hard to comment on man lol

 

Sorry, I dont consider bullet physics to be an essential part of an fps. Most players probably dont even know what bullet physics is nor does, and they wouldnt really care provided they have something that closely approximates it - which is what you later alluded to being developed for DU, which is fine by me.

 

So once again we are basically saying the same thing, just our definitions are a little different

 

And thanks for spending the time to explain

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[Lethys]

Classic misunderstanding. Have a beer :+1

[CoreVamore]

3 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Classic misunderstanding. Have a beer :+1

*HICK!* thanks, I shoulnt dwink too mch or ym typins gtes weally baaad

 

[vylqun]

6 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

omg you mean the post you added to three times....... that makes it hard to comment on man lol

it was within 5 minutes