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seennotheard

Should Marketplaces Have Lua Scripts/Have APIs?

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Personally I think if you want to interact with the market you should log in and play the game. 

 

An api to look at prices would be something many people would enjoy. But I'm strongly against being able to use it to buy or sell items without logging in. 

 

Or automate actions, that smells too much like botting. 

As far as I understand it. 

 

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17 hours ago, Falstaf said:

Personally I think if you want to interact with the market you should log in and play the game. 

 

An api to look at prices would be something many people would enjoy. But I'm strongly against being able to use it to buy or sell items without logging in. 

 

Or automate actions, that smells too much like botting. 

As far as I understand it. 

 

But what if you're an interplanetary weapons seller, and you need to raise all of your prices at the same time? You would have to physically go to each market on each planet that sells your weapons, and change the order. That would take a long time.

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2 hours ago, seennotheard said:

That would take a long time.

Yep. Handling that sort of thing is what could separate the good interplanetary weapons seller and some random person who visits a station once then manages his stocks from his safe zone home. I plan on focusing heavily on using the scripting to its fullest but this is something I think should not be possible (the auto changing/placing of orders) especially remotely.

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4 minutes ago, Dwarf3d said:

Yep. Handling that sort of thing is what could separate the good interplanetary weapons seller and some random person who visits a station once then manages his stocks from his safe zone home. I plan on focusing heavily on using the scripting to its fullest but this is something I think should not be possible (the auto changing/placing of orders) especially remotely.

By a long time, I mean going to another planet within a system will take days, if not weeks.

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1 minute ago, seennotheard said:

going to another planet within a system will take days, if not weeks

I may not understand exactly what you want, if you're saying you should be able to login to the game and through some process change the price on an order you have already placed somewhere else, I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility (although I could see it going either way). However a lot of talk in this thread is about the ability to place orders programmatically even potentially when not online which is what I am very against, since long travel time is a major market factor that I think it should definitely be preserved so those people willing to make those runs can make something out of it.

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2 minutes ago, Dwarf3d said:

I may not understand exactly what you want, if you're saying you should be able to login to the game and through some process change the price on an order you have already placed somewhere else, I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility (although I could see it going either way). However a lot of talk in this thread is about the ability to place orders programmatically even potentially when not online which is what I am very against, since long travel time is a major market factor that I think it should definitely be preserved so those people willing to make those runs can make something out of it.

I'm saying that scripting and being able to change your own market orders benefits everyone, if its easily accessible.

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4 hours ago, seennotheard said:

But what if you're an interplanetary weapons seller, and you need to raise all of your prices at the same time? You would have to physically go to each market on each planet that sells your weapons, and change the order. That would take a long time.

Yup, it would. 

 

Its one of those convenience or gameplay questions. 

If you allow a trader to change his prices on a whim from planet to planet or through an Api, then why have localized markets at all? 

 

Let's just make 1 auctionhouse and be done with it. 

 

I prefer the local markets and the inconvenience it brings. 

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1 minute ago, Falstaf said:

Yup, it would. 

 

Its one of those convenience or gameplay questions. 

If you allow a trader to change his prices on a whim from planet to planet or through an Api, then why have localized markets at all? 

 

Let's just make 1 auctionhouse and be done with it. 

 

I prefer the local markets and the inconvenience it brings. 

Local markets are important because planets and regions in a planet might have specialized goods. Iron would be cheaper to buy near an iron mine than at a shipyard, which consumes iron. Local markets aren't there to just cause inconvenience, but for immersion. Also, allowing people to change their market orders remotely would increase market liquidity.

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1 minute ago, seennotheard said:

 Local markets aren't there to just cause inconvenience, 

That's not what I said. 

 

I merely pointed out it's one or the other. 

I choose local markets and everything that comes with it. 

 

Including being in the neighborhood to change prices. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, seennotheard said:

But what if you're an interplanetary weapons seller, and you need to raise all of your prices at the same time? You would have to physically go to each market on each planet that sells your weapons, and change the order. That would take a long time.

 

1 hour ago, seennotheard said:

I'm saying that scripting and being able to change your own market orders benefits everyone, if its easily accessible.

scripting != changing your market orders from afar

 

Those two things are NOT the same thing and it's essential to me that scripting (changing orders via a script automatically) is not possible as it creates very bad gameplay (as I already explained several times now). I can foresee those dramatic posts on the forum already, garnished with a lot of salt. 

 

changing your market orders from afar (manually) could (and should imho!) be a basic mechanic for trade. There's nothing wrong when you take a long trip home for example and have to fly say 3h and meanwhile you can access your orders somehow.

Maybe you have to train a certain ingame skill to be able to do that (increase distance at which you can interact with a market for example) and maybe you would need a special console to access the market data from afar, but to me this is a pretty basic mechanic for traders and haulers. NQ already said in some interview, that viewing (!= changing!) your orders might be possible - can't remember if it was "will be possible".

 

This is the same mechanic in eve: you need to train certain skills to be able to place more buy/sell orders and to be able to change them from afar. Then you just get a window where you see all your orders and you can manually (if you use a bot here you will be banned!) change every single one from afar.

 

And if you can only VIEW your orders (but not change them) - what would this mean in DU?

 

- traders will want to stay near "their" market unit so they can change their orders. Thus, you can enforce teamplay (they want to trade and usually don't want to pvp - so they want and need protection) and people will stay together more instead of just leaving and staying somewhere far away. They will settle where there is smth to buy and sell ofc - so a industry heavy area. Which will (maybe) enforce cities and areas with a high population

- ofc this also leads to alts as a trader will just create an alt at some distant market unit, ships his products to that alt and sells them there - while his main char is still in some other system / on some planet. But such ppl will always exist - even if it's possible to change prices from afar, ppl will want to have an alt there to take those products out of the market and bring them somewhere safe

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Lethys said:

 

 

changing your market orders from afar (manually) could (and should imho!) be a basic mechanic for trade. There's nothing wrong when you take a long trip home for example and have to fly say 3h and meanwhile you can access your 

 

 

Fair enough, but wouldn't that destroy the idea and benefits from local markets if you can unify the prices on every market in game? 

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2 minutes ago, Falstaf said:

 

Fair enough, but wouldn't that destroy the idea and benefits from local markets if you can unify the prices on every market in game? 

Prices won't be unified even if you can change prices remotely because the supply and demand of a resource is region-specific.

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1 minute ago, seennotheard said:

Prices won't be unified even if you can change prices remotely because the supply and demand of a resource is region-specific.

I don't think that applies. 

 

Let's say you transport Kyrium from its source to a far of planet. 

If you can change price on every market at the same time why would you work with the local price at all? 

 

You would just make 1 unit price for all locations. 

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1 minute ago, Falstaf said:

I don't think that applies. 

 

Let's say you transport Kyrium from its source to a far of planet. 

If you can change price on every market at the same time why would you work with the local price at all? 

 

You would just make 1 unit price for all locations. 

Because you won't be the only one who can transport kyrium to that certain planet. If you charge too high of a price, no one will buy your goods. A competitor will charge a lower price, leaving you with no sales.

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1 minute ago, seennotheard said:

Because you won't be the only one who can transport kyrium to that certain planet. If you charge too high of a price, no one will buy your goods. A competitor will charge a lower price, leaving you with no sales.

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that you sort of destroy the idea of local markets. 

 

Hey I thinks it's one of those agree to disagree questions. 

 

But who knows, I might read something that changes my mind. ;)

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1 hour ago, Falstaf said:

 

Fair enough, but wouldn't that destroy the idea and benefits from local markets if you can unify the prices on every market in game? 

no it wouldn't.

 

Just look at the homepage i linked earlier - that's eve's market where you can set prices for a whole region (perhaps ignore the forge and jita as this is the main trading hub).

The prices are diverse and completely unrelated to the skill (to set prices for a region) or the trade volume as someone said. All that matters in eve is supply and demand - well at least those are the main driving factors)

 

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37 minutes ago, Lethys said:

no it wouldn't.

 

Just look at the homepage i linked earlier - that's eve's market where you can set prices for a whole region (perhaps ignore the forge and jita as this is the main trading hub).

The prices are diverse and completely unrelated to the skill (to set prices for a region) or the trade volume as someone said. 

 

Hmm, that's true as well. 

 

Looks like I'm wrong in my opinion on that one. ^_^

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25 minutes ago, Falstaf said:

Hmm, that's true as well. 

 

Looks like I'm wrong in my opinion on that one. ^_^

only because it doesn't affect eve's economy doesn't mean it won't affect DU's economy either. I don't think it will, but it may be possible if the mechanics are way different - so it's worth debating nonetheless :)

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@Falstaf  The main reason I think it works that way is that if the resource is easily obtainable in a specific region then people in that region will undercut your prices if you set the price the same as it is in a region further away where there is a high demand for the resource.  You can't just set a flat price across the board, because you will have more competitors in one region than others.  Unless you drop all your prices to the lowest, then you will have local traders in high demand areas buying your stock, and reselling at appropriate prices.

 

Personally I agree that remote viewing at least would be an important thing to have in the game.  Remote adjustments would be nice, and the ability ti track them outside of the game would be great, whether NQ builds an API or if there is a way for the players to build one with LUA.

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