oxygen and pressurised ships

[FD3242]

If they do not all ready have this this is a necessity.

 

It would make hull breaches more of a immediate threat instead of a, we will deal with it later no big deal.

 

But do not make all the air in a ship come out instantly like in space engineers because then ships would be to easy to destroy, instead give each separate area a oxygen level, witch slowly BUT NOT TO SLOWLY goes down if there a breach.

 

The oxygen level should also deplete if there are players in it faster the more players, but as long as you have enough oxygen generators that will not be a problem as it will immediately go back to 100%.

 

Also there should be effects to the player depending on the oxygen level. For example at lower amounts your stamina runs out faster and you run slower, and of course at 0% you black out and die.

 

Ways of getting oxygen could include, Extracting it from ice or water or just simply pulling it from the atmosphere of a green planet.

 

There should be ways of storing it for example oxygen canisters, witch can be put in your suit to allow for space walks or being outside on a planet without oxygen. large and small tanks for ships.

 

Edit: Larger rooms should also need more oxygen to go up a %

[yamamushi]

I'm fairly positive there will not be air pressure inside of ships and stations being simulated.

 

It's a very similar problem to the issue of modeling water flow in a massive game like this (air acts like a fluid after all), and water is something they've said will not have real world flows.

 

If you want to play a game with accurate air pressurization dynamics, check out Space Station 13. It's not a graphically pretty game, but it was originally created as an air pressure simulator. 

 

 

Whether or not there will be a need for O2 in space is a whole other topic, but I would hope that we aren't stuck wearing our helmets 24/7, and that going out into space might require some resources like oxygen (or food). 

 

Survival mechanics like that have generally be frowned upon in the forums, but I'm definitely in favor of needing supplies (food, water, O2) to survive. 

[FD3242]

did not mean to post this

[FD3242]

I'm fairly positive there will not be air pressure inside of ships and stations being simulated.

 

It's a very similar problem to the issue of modeling water flow in a massive game like this (air acts like a fluid after all), and water is something they've said will not have real world flows.

 

If you want to play a game with accurate air pressurization dynamics, check out Space Station 13. It's not a graphically pretty game, but it was originally created as an air pressure simulator. 

 

 

Whether or not there will be a need for O2 in space is a whole other topic, but I would hope that we aren't stuck wearing our helmets 24/7, and that going out into space might require some resources like oxygen (or food). 

 

Survival mechanics like that have generally be frowned upon in the forums, but I'm definitely in favor of needing supplies (food, water, O2) to survive. 

I never said i wonted dynamic oxygen I know that's impossible. I said very clearly how they could do it

[Cornflakes]

You definitely said dynamic oxygen, because that is what you need for local concentration changes

 

Search for "atmosphere" (ctrl+F) on the page, because i cant figure out how to link individual posts

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/22-devblog-multiplayer-ship-crew/

[yamamushi]

I never said i wonted dynamic oxygen I know that's impossible. I said very clearly how they could do it

 

The title of the thread is "Oxygen and Pressurised Ships", and you started your post with :

 

 

 

"If they do not all ready have this this is a necessity.

 

It would make hull breaches more of a immediate threat instead of a, we will deal with it later no big deal."

 

 

 

 

So you definitely did. 

[FD3242]

You definitely said dynamic oxygen, because that is what you need for local concentration changes

 

Search for "atmosphere" (ctrl+F) on the page, because i cant figure out how to link individual posts

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/22-devblog-multiplayer-ship-crew/

maybe i  did  "not the best at knowing exactly what words mean"  but i do not see how this is like water water has to flow this is just setting a value for each room and changing it a lot less complicated

[yamamushi]

You definitely said dynamic oxygen, because that is what you need for local concentration changes

 

Search for "atmosphere" (ctrl+F) on the page, because i cant figure out how to link individual posts

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/22-devblog-multiplayer-ship-crew/

 

 

 

"Physical properties like pressure or atmosphere dilution when a breach is done in a Spaceship Hull won’t be implemented, at least not for now."

 

 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/22-devblog-multiplayer-ship-crew/?p=47

[FD3242]

The title of the thread is "Oxygen and Pressurised Ships", and you started your post with :

 

 

 

"If they do not all ready have this this is a necessity.

 

It would make hull breaches more of a immediate threat instead of a, we will deal with it later no big deal."

 

 

 

 

So you definitely did. 

again i never said i wonted it to be flowing just changing a value if there is a breach

[FD3242]

 

"Physical properties like pressure or atmosphere dilution when a breach is done in a Spaceship Hull won’t be implemented, at least not for now."

 

 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/22-devblog-multiplayer-ship-crew/?p=47

 

aa i had not thought of what he said about if there are 1000s of ships even simple calculations can become intensive.

[yamamushi]

maybe i  did  "not the best at knowing exactly what words mean"  but i do not see how this is like water water has to flow this is just setting a value for each room and changing it a lot less complicated

 

Water flow and Air pressure are both applications of Fluid Dynamics. It's not a simple problem to solve, especially in an MMO setting where hundreds or thousands of players could be in the same area at the same time. 

 

When you have hundreds of ships in a battle, calculating all of that work in realtime would become extremely resource heavy even if the ships weren't doing anything other than flying around. Add in combat, players, ships moving, etc. and it just adds to the overall difficulty of making everything work together seamlessly. 

 

 

Check out this DevBlog post for more information on why it's not going to happen -> https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/22-devblog-multiplayer-ship-crew/?p=47 

[FD3242]

Water flow and Air pressure are both applications of Fluid Dynamics. It's not a simple problem to solve, especially in an MMO setting where hundreds or thousands of players could be in the same area at the same time. 

 

When you have hundreds of ships in a battle, calculating all of that work in realtime would become extremely resource heavy even if the ships weren't doing anything other than flying around. Add in combat, players, ships moving, etc. and it just adds to the overall difficulty of making everything work together seamlessly. 

 

 

Check out this DevBlog post for more information on why it's not going to happen -> https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/22-devblog-multiplayer-ship-crew/?p=47 

in case you did not see my other post. I had not thought of that if there is 1000 of ships and they each have 10 rooms then there are 100s of 1000s of calculations being done so i understand now

[Code24]

Down the road, I would like to see a very simple pressurization system. Basically, treat empty area that is sealed off from space as a 25cm "empty" voxel. When those voxels are not in contact with space and have an oxygen flow from a generator or vent the voxel given the "pressurized" state.  Once a breach is caused and one of these pressurized "empty" voxels is touched by the void of space the "unpressurized" state quickly spreads from one to another in a chain reaction until a non "empty" voxel is contacted. 

[FD3242]

Down the road, I would like to see a very simple pressurization system. Basically, treat empty area that is sealed off from space as a 25cm "empty" voxel. When those voxels are not in contact with space and have an oxygen flow from a generator or vent the voxel given the "pressurized" state.  Once a breach is caused and one of these pressurized "empty" voxels is touched by the void of space the "unpressurized" state quickly spreads form one to another in a chain reaction until a non "empty" voxel is contacted. 

might work better since apparently 1000s of moving voxel ships is no problem

[Cornflakes]

 

again i never said i wonted it to be flowing just changing a value if there is a breach

 

Define room?

Define breach?

You need to do a lot of flood fills to determine if theres a way to space from a given voxel.

 

might work better since apparently 1000s of moving voxel ships is no problem

No, that wont work because its no different from the problem that prevents fluid mechanics from being in the game.

 

The thousands of ships dont need cellular automatons or expensive flood fills to move.

The moving is just done the same way as with a normal modeled object in any other game, with local coordinate systems and movement of those.

[Code24]

The thousands of ships dont need cellular automatons or expensive flood fills to move.

The moving is just done the same way as with a normal modeled object in any other game, with local coordinate systems and movement of those.

 

Don't we know that there will be basic minecraft-like fluid dynamics though from the AMA?

 

It seems that if they were going to put a pressurization system in-game they would opt for cellular automata.

[LynkxDev]

I hope that system exists as a detail to make the game rich, not as a problem to burn processors.

[DaSchiz]

did not mean to post this

 

You liked your own post? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqhaTPu732U

[LynkxDev]

I think i figure out a way for do the "oxygen" effect on a ship or building,

without work with fluid simulation and to realistic things that would need a super computer to process...

 

They can add a "Compare algorithm" to encapsulate a ship or building,

like the blueprint system for repairs ore rebuilt,

this algorithm will compare the actual ship with its previously saved blueprint after it receive any attack,

(after shields absorb the extra damage and any type of armor or damage reduction)

the comparison is a % percentage of how much of the ship was removed / exploded / vanish some parts away , 

or  how much  damage was taken. If the structure is

1% ~ 9% different of its saved blueprint you can (if your ship have the sensor for it) receive a signal that its compromised and need repairs,  10% ~ 20% between its actual state and original state, simply attach a "negative status" to all ppl inside like: "Low Oxygen level 1"

that would works like an accumulative  poison, reducing the player capabilities and giving slow and few damage, and slowly progressing  to its next level, if the player stay in the area it will progress to "Low Oxygen level 2" (and so on)
with stronger negative effects and until the effects kill the player, (or he find a pressurized suit, or repair the ship during the battle)

higher percentages of damage also can make the status advance to a higher level instantly and all crew inside would need to use pressurized suits to avoid the negative effects. Also you could install a bridge protection upgrade for your ship to seal the bridge and negate the effect inside so you could fight until your ship is complete wiped from existence (with you inside).

 

.....

[Ryoko_Takahashi]

I think i figure out a way for do the "oxygen" effect on a ship or building,

without work with fluid simulation and to realistic things that would need a super computer to process...

 

They can add a "Compare algorithm" to encapsulate a ship or building,

like the blueprint system for repairs ore rebuilt,

this algorithm will compare the actual ship with its previously saved blueprint after it receive any attack,

(after shields absorb the extra damage and any type of armor or damage reduction)

the comparison is a % percentage of how much of the ship was removed / exploded / vanish some parts away , 

or  how much  damage was taken. If the structure is

1% ~ 9% different of its saved blueprint you can (if your ship have the sensor for it) receive a signal that its compromised and need repairs,  10% ~ 20% between its actual state and original state, simply attach a "negative status" to all ppl inside like: "Low Oxygen level 1"

that would works like an accumulative  poison, reducing the player capabilities and giving slow and few damage, and slowly progressing  to its next level, if the player stay in the area it will progress to "Low Oxygen level 2" (and so on)

with stronger negative effects and until the effects kill the player, (or he find a pressurized suit, or repair the ship during the battle)

higher percentages of damage also can make the status advance to a higher level instantly and all crew inside would need to use pressurized suits to avoid the negative effects. Also you could install a bridge protection upgrade for your ship to seal the bridge and negate the effect inside so you could fight until your ship is complete wiped from existence (with you inside).

 

.....

 

I'm not sure how they should implement the detriments of a lack of oxygen or atmospheric pressure, but I like your idea of comparing the original blueprint to the current state of the ship after take damage. I had an idea that I thought would have been an extremely easy, quick, and processor non-intense way of calculating this. Honestly though, after re-reading your post a few times I think I might be saying the same thing just in a different way ^^; I'll add it anyways since I already wrote it up.

 

I was thinking rather than being based off the differences of the original blueprint and the ships state after damage, I would suggest basing it off of the the ships voxel count and %dmg of elements. I recall them stating that everything is procedural, and only the changes we make are actually saved to the server. Having this in mind, I would assume that there are/will be current and up to date save states for the ships as well. When taking damage, the current voxel count and elements' dmg% could be compared with the previous save state of the vessel. Then (much like you discussed) after a certain threshold is reached, the chance of an implied hull breach event would rise/happen. The beauty of this, is there are no complex algorithms to run, no volumetric checks to verify, etc. Just a simple % check. I think whether there is an ACTUAL visible hull breach would be beside the point. The ship took more damage than its hull integrity could withstand, and breached.