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Armedwithwings

Concerning Night-Time and Darkness

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Looking through some of DU's released info i noticed plans for an active day/night planetary cycle.

As an old time DayZ mod veteran i was absolutely thrilled by the concept of navigitating through a pitch black landscape.

Imo it would be like a dream come true if DU were to follow DayZ's mod formula of nocturnal navigation.

Forcing players into illuminating an area and create light source infastructures could possibly add a new layer of gameplay.

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Yeah, night-time roaming will certainly make things tricky.

Personally I hope they don't do stealth mechanics like "Harry Potter" cloak, instead making it both a mechnaical stealth (not showing your name when hovered over with a cross-hair) and perhaps camo paint, like vantablack, which is the literal "blackest black" color ever, making you perfectly immune to detection at night 0 but it's very ery costly, due to it being very conductive on electricity, thus making it impossible to factory massp roduce, due to, you know, short-circuiting, at least, not at speeds that are acceptable for mass production, thus scarce and costly. Vantablack would not even reflect light even if shone onto with a flashlight - that's how black it is. but

 

Vantablack doesn't totally prevent being heat detected (which can be handled with some sort of "limited" heat sink based invisibility), or makes you invisible to tremor sensors (footsteps detector). So, the whole thing just makes you hard AF to see, not Harry Potter cloak invisible. If you move a lot, you will be detected by a patrol you try to sneak past to infiltrate a compound. I am just tired of crappy stealth mechanics that don't involve patience - or skill.


So, for stealth purposes, I hope NQ does use the night in the combat system, and subsequently in stealth suits of any kind.

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27 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Yeah, night-time roaming will certainly make things tricky.

Personally I hope they don't do stealth mechanics like "Harry Potter" cloak, instead making it both a mechnaical stealth (not showing your name when hovered over with a cross-hair) and perhaps camo paint, like vantablack, which is the literal "blackest black" color ever, making you perfectly immune to detection at night 0 but it's very ery costly, due to it being very conductive on electricity, thus making it impossible to factory massp roduce, due to, you know, short-circuiting, at least, not at speeds that are acceptable for mass production, thus scarce and costly. Vantablack would not even reflect light even if shone onto with a flashlight - that's how black it is. but

 

Vantablack doesn't totally prevent being heat detected (which can be handled with some sort of "limited" heat sink based invisibility), or makes you invisible to tremor sensors (footsteps detector). So, the whole thing just makes you hard AF to see, not Harry Potter cloak invisible. If you move a lot, you will be detected by a patrol you try to sneak past to infiltrate a compound. I am just tired of crappy stealth mechanics that don't involve patience - or skill.


So, for stealth purposes, I hope NQ does use the night in the combat system, and subsequently in stealth suits of any kind.

Just imagine organized squad warfare tactics with night and thermal vision.

From a PvP perspective,the feeling of pulling off a successful ambush would be priceless!

As far as cloacking devices go,i totally agree with your sentiments.

I get the uneasy feeling they'll prove too overpowered and subsequently make things way too easy.

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1 hour ago, Armedwithwings said:

Just imagine organized squad warfare tactics with night and thermal vision.

From a PvP perspective,the feeling of pulling off a successful ambush would be priceless!

As far as cloacking devices go,i totally agree with your sentiments.

I get the uneasy feeling they'll prove too overpowered and subsequently make things way too easy.

They are also really silly, a cop-out on stealth.

Old school games relied on the "cloak", cause of technical limitations on pulling off a convincing day-night cycle (cause dynamic shadows are a bitch some times).

 

If NQ was to add meaning to camouflage, or at least actual camouflage tech, that would be awesome.

in the case of the aforementioned vantablack, the fact it can absorb a lot of EM -sepctrun, makes it heavily susceptible to EM attacks (lasers for example would cook you alive if you wore such an armor made of such material, since heat would not dissipate a lot), so, it's not a "win win", yo uare  really weak if yo uget into a fight, so stealth becomes the main means of combat.

 

I just don't want to see the "rouge" class from other games, like WoW, where stealth is not stealth at all. If you wear a stealth armor, your defense is not being detected, you shouldn't be engaging the enemy, you should be scouting / bypassing them.

There could be armors meant for "ambush", like armors that provide the so called active camoufalge (aka , pseudo invisibility, like being amde out of glass) for when peopel remain stationary, similar to how Fallout 4 handles it for invisibility modules on gear. But That is not stealth, it's more about waiting for the enemy, camouflaged to blend in. once the fight starts, it's no longer a viable means of stealth, while an actual "stealth suit" would be just for that, bypassing defenses without being detected.

Heck, it may make people deforrest areas as far as the eye can see around an outpost / city or even put checkpoints when trying to enter a city ,demanding clevelr means for infiltrating said cities / outposts.

That's what stealth is after all.

P.S. : Rouge = an intentional mispelling of the word "rogue", to designate the level of intelligence most rogue-players (don't) have, since 99% of the time, Rogue classes are broken AF, with little to no skill required at stomping people.

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I like this conversation. I'm already picturing covering tanks in rock and smooth it to an uneven egg-like shape, then taking a couple of those across landscapes filled with huge stones, halting to a stop and melting in completely from any the perspective distance longer than 10 m from them 

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Say we have a Binary star system or someone put a giant fusion powered lamp in orbit (yes, I watched too much Issac Arthur) so there still is a light source on the night side of the planet.  I hope the game models that instead of making the atmosphere opaque or something. 

 

There are materials with negative refractive indexes and perhaps they will be in game ?

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18 hours ago, MookMcMook said:

Isn't darkness easy to cheat by changing your monitor settings for example? I remember enjoying darkness in older games...

That only really works on single-player games and on ones where the "darkness" is just the giant sky-lamp going to 0.05 of its original ouput :P .Essentially, it's not dark, it's just the lamp being tuned down, hence why increasing brightness exponentially increasing the current light intensity.

DU has an actual lightsource in the sky, If you notice in their videos, when the sun moves in the sky, the shadows don't "jump" to refresh, they just move gradually along with the star. If it's night, it's night, there is no light source.You can amp the brightness up all you want, 0% luminosity is 0% :P

And to be fair, they did say they may try to make night-time "more visible", but I hope they reconsider. Everyone is tired of the "blue hue nights" of MMOs.

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2 hours ago, 0something0 said:

Say we have a Binary star system or someone put a giant fusion powered lamp in orbit (yes, I watched too much Issac Arthur) so there still is a light source on the night side of the planet.  I hope the game models that instead of making the atmosphere opaque or something. 

 

There are materials with negative refractive indexes and perhaps they will be in game ?

I think you confused the binary system. A binary system is two stars orbiting in unison around one another. It's not "two stars orbiting a planet". That would literally tear apart planets, or slingshot them to dark space with the power of Zeus.

As for the negative refraction index, that falls under the same levels of "Hard to create" material.

Of course, a negative refraction armor also :

1) makes you visible to tremor sensors when you move or move a lot.
2) means you wear a spiffy glass armor, firefights will end REALLY quickly and not in your favor.
3) means that the negative refraction works both ways, your own infrared will cook you alive, so the "Heat-sink" based stealth would still apply (from what I pointed out earlier.

As for spaceships, a spiffy glass armor that refracts light won't hide :

1) engines firing, blueshift/redshift is not something you can conceal

2) gravitometry will still pinpoint you.
3) magnetometry will still lock onto you.

In general, negative refraction is not something "miraculous", it has a lot of baggage with it as a stealth means, mainly, the fact heat will accumulate and kill the user for infantry. 

Either way, it's still a balanced stealth system. You are not "invisible", just transluscent. If you move, people will notice it and you can't really fight 1vs1 with a person who wears actually combat capable armor. You are just wearing a STEALTH suit. And an expensive stealth suit at that, so it works iwth the in-game economy and the specialisation the game goes for.

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4 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

And to be fair, they did say they may try to make night-time "more visible", but I hope they reconsider. Everyone is tired of the "blue hue nights" of MMOs.

 

I can identify with people feeling this way and for a good reason too...

From a realistic perspective night in games was never supposed to be a mere "moolight sonata"

They are supposed to be dark,so dark that you can get yourself lost within.

So dark that when you decide to activate your suit's embedded flashlight you risk reaveling your position to every third party in the area.

If you're running supplies through the pitch black night,you don't risk going offroad and instead start navigating through a faction created illluminted highway.

There is always an inherent need for humans to follow the light as it's the equivelent of civilization and security.

Now i'm not advocating in completely discouraging folks from going lone night-exploring but rather involve an authentic element as to raise the difficulty of their endevour.

After all it's completely natural for nocturnal mining to be hard if you can't even see your excavation site.

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12 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

That only really works on single-player games and on ones where the "darkness" is just the giant sky-lamp going to 0.05 of its original ouput :P .Essentially, it's not dark, it's just the lamp being tuned down, hence why increasing brightness exponentially increasing the current light intensity.

DU has an actual lightsource in the sky, If you notice in their videos, when the sun moves in the sky, the shadows don't "jump" to refresh, they just move gradually along with the star. If it's night, it's night, there is no light source.You can amp the brightness up all you want, 0% luminosity is 0% :P

And to be fair, they did say they may try to make night-time "more visible", but I hope they reconsider. Everyone is tired of the "blue hue nights" of MMOs.

Thank you.

 

Interesting, may open up all sorts of gameplay options. Space equivalent of deep-sea fish bioluminescence and camouflage.

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There are binary star systems where a planet orbits a star and another star orbits the planets. I also mentioned orbital spotlight. There also are moons around planets reflectung light accomplishing the same effects, which all can lead to nights not being pitch-black.  I hope the game simulates all that.

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1 hour ago, 0something0 said:

There are binary star systems where a planet orbits a star and another star orbits the planets.

given the difference in mass, that is very doubtful. 

there a P and S type binary star systems.

P type = planet orbits both suns

S type = planet orbits only one of the stars 

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_binary_star_systems#/media/File:Planets_in_binary_star_systems_-_P-_and_S-type.svg)

 

1 hour ago, 0something0 said:

There also are moons around planets reflectung light accomplishing the same effects, which all can lead to nights not being pitch-black

most nights are not pitch black,  moons and even stars do give some light. Today that is hardly visible since in most cities you see very few stars due to light pollution but when you are in remote areas it is quite impressive to see. 

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5 hours ago, Forodrim said:

given the difference in mass, that is very doubtful. 

there a P and S type binary star systems.

P type = planet orbits both suns

S type = planet orbits only one of the stars 

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_binary_star_systems#/media/File:Planets_in_binary_star_systems_-_P-_and_S-type.svg)

Yeah, the S types fit the bill. The celestial bodies around a planet could potential impact tactics ,strediegy, and base-building. There could even be micrometer-thich materials that you could use for planetary megastructures for blocking out light!

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