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CaptainTwerkmotor

Mining Equipment - should it cause damage to enemies?

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Real simple question. Should any possible mining equipment, like laser drills, be able to cause damage to other players?

The amount of heat needed to melt something like iron, is enough to cause some serious damage to players - at the cost of range of course, it's a drill, laser or not.

Should equipment like that be possible to be turned into a defensive weapon if the occassion arises, or are you scared of the possbility of miners packing some heat?

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Do you know of any instances of NQ mentioning having mining equipment?  I kept waiting to hear about something but when JC mentioned the time it would take to cut the world up in the radio interview he said something about not giving tools that could make major changes to planets in any reasonable timeframe.

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3 minutes ago, Felonu said:

Do you know of any instances of NQ mentioning having mining equipment?  I kept waiting to hear about something but when JC mentioned the time it would take to cut the world up in the radio interview he said something about not giving tools that could make major changes to planets in any reasonable timeframe.

Hence why "possible minign equipment". So far they have not announced anything on the subject. Although, Jackhammers are favourite of many manly men :P

It's not about "mining time acceleration" more like "you spend in-game money (power cells) to gain more ore out of the process". It's not gonna be a free lunch so to speak, and would probably make mining into more of a profession with its own gear and equipment or even tuned focusing crystals for mining certain minerals much more easily.

Regardless, this is a question on if mining equipment should be posible to harm othe people, cause in games like EVE, mining lasers can't do anything to other players, which makes miners easy prey.

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Depends, if it's a drill or a laser. A drill needs to build pressure upon its target, so it would only push a ship away. Maybe a drill could do dmg to a station. A laser should do minor dmg. Or maybe we use explosives to mine and it would take to long to place it upon a playership. :D

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9 minutes ago, Nebenfigur said:

Depends, if it's a drill or a laser. A drill needs to build pressure upon its target, so it would only push a ship away. Maybe a drill could do dmg to a station. A laser should do minor dmg. Or maybe we use explosives to mine and it would take to long to place it upon a playership. :D

The question wa "on enemis" as in "other player characters".

 A drill against a starfighter is quite the one-sided fight :P

Althoug,h you got the right idea indeed, the Laser Drill could do "built up damage", in RPG terms, applying a stacking debuff o nthe enemy (Heated) and more damage, so the Mining Laser Drill does small damage at first, but slowlly builds up as long as the debuff remains on the enemy target - and could possibly work likewise on mining, the damaged part of the terrain you destroyed is "edited" by having a molten textures on it, which makes the subsequent mining actions of the drill takes lesss time.

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If there are some mining lasers or drills, they should do damage just for realism, but at the same time should be inefficient if someone tries to use them as main weapon on vehicle. 

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10 minutes ago, Miamato said:

If there are some mining lasers or drills, they should do damage just for realism, but at the same time should be inefficient if someone tries to use them as main weapon on vehicle. 

That's definitely a point, it should be a viable means of defense if it came to close quarters fight, not a legit weapon :P A drill would never be able to fight t a rifle at distance.

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I believe that the plan is for mining to be done using the nanoformer. You know that quick footage of NQ removing spheres of dirt and adding it to their inventory?

 

That might be what mining looks like, in which case no real "mining tools" necessaraly. If that's the case then no, the nanoformer should not also be a weapon, it would again devolve to "rust in space" where your trusty rock is your first tool and also your first weapon, naturally people run around hitting each other with rocks.

 

They did make it clear though that mining would be done by hand (no ship drills or mining lasers here), since they wanted to make scanning and mining an engaging activity, and doing it form inside a ship removes from that. I wouldn't be opposed to having hand-held mining lasers of various qualities that could double as something like a melee weapon (sorta like assaulting someone with a chainsaw). This would also allow them to develop mining tools that each have different strengths (a tool that can only gather common materials but gathers them quickly in a wide area, one that's slow but squeezes some extra ore or higher purity ore out of it, etc etc).

 

It would make sense for such a tool to hurt players, however you'd have to be careful how effective it can be against constructs. If the mining laser tool works well on ships, then it would be just like the grinder in space engineers, where you can bust up basically anything for free as much as you'd like. To damage a construct i think you'd need an actual weapon, ideally explosives (something designed to hurt constructs). To take a page from something rust does well, it takes for friggin ever to break down a door with anything other than explosives (and that's honestly a good thing)

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50 minutes ago, wizardoftrash said:

I believe that the plan is for mining to be done using the nanoformer. You know that quick footage of NQ removing spheres of dirt and adding it to their inventory?

 

That might be what mining looks like, in which case no real "mining tools" necessaraly. If that's the case then no, the nanoformer should not also be a weapon, it would again devolve to "rust in space" where your trusty rock is your first tool and also your first weapon, naturally people run around hitting each other with rocks.

 

They did make it clear though that mining would be done by hand (no ship drills or mining lasers here), since they wanted to make scanning and mining an engaging activity, and doing it form inside a ship removes from that. I wouldn't be opposed to having hand-held mining lasers of various qualities that could double as something like a melee weapon (sorta like assaulting someone with a chainsaw). This would also allow them to develop mining tools that each have different strengths (a tool that can only gather common materials but gathers them quickly in a wide area, one that's slow but squeezes some extra ore or higher purity ore out of it, etc etc).

 

It would make sense for such a tool to hurt players, however you'd have to be careful how effective it can be against constructs. If the mining laser tool works well on ships, then it would be just like the grinder in space engineers, where you can bust up basically anything for free as much as you'd like. To damage a construct i think you'd need an actual weapon, ideally explosives (something designed to hurt constructs). To take a page from something rust does well, it takes for friggin ever to break down a door with anything other than explosives (and that's honestly a good thing)


Good point on the damage part.

Though I did say "possible mining equipment". It's about "if" they were to add it.

As for the Rust in Space, the nanoformer is a cybernetic limb that's more like a FutureSpace version of the Swiss Army Knife. They did say it can deal damage on its own. Sure, the nanoformer is not an "end all, be all" tool, it's just a starting point, which why I wondered :

"JC said that you can damage voxels with Avatar Weapons (effectiveness varies, not all weapons are equal), couldn't a mining tool, which is an AoE damage weapon in a sense, damge other players? And if so, wouldn't POSSIBLE mining equipment do the same?"

Which got me thinking "could miners in DU have means to protect themselves? Could they use those tools to hurt other people".

Also,  yeah, they do not want mining to be done "faster" by mining drills on ships.. What Iwas thinking was the jackhamemr from Landmark.,,

The Jackhamemr didn't mine minerals, it cleared dirt and left only the mineral vein to be exposed. It was the most beautiful piece of equiopment I ever seen in any video game, you could just go for drilling in Landmark and relax. Destruction is destruction after all.


This is more or less what I refer to as "mining Equipment". It's not making mining minerals faster, it just makes it more convenient, by digging bigger holes for you to go through - but not harvestign the dirt itself.

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6 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:


Good point on the damage part.

Though I did say "possible mining equipment". It's about "if" they were to add it.

As for the Rust in Space, the nanoformer is a cybernetic limb that's more like a FutureSpace version of the Swiss Army Knife. They did say it can deal damage on its own. Sure, the nanoformer is not an "end all, be all" tool, it's just a starting point, which why I wondered :

"JC said that you can damage voxels with Avatar Weapons (effectiveness varies, not all weapons are equal), couldn't a mining tool, which is an AoE damage weapon in a sense, damge other players? And if so, wouldn't POSSIBLE mining equipment do the same?"

Which got me thinking "could miners in DU have means to protect themselves? Could they use those tools to hurt other people".

Also,  yeah, they do not want mining to be done "faster" by mining drills on ships.. What Iwas thinking was the jackhamemr from Landmark.,,

The Jackhamemr didn't mine minerals, it cleared dirt and left only the mineral vein to be exposed. It was the most beautiful piece of equiopment I ever seen in any video game, you could just go for drilling in Landmark and relax. Destruction is destruction after all.


This is more or less what I refer to as "mining Equipment". It's not making mining minerals faster, it just makes it more convenient, by digging bigger holes for you to go through - but not harvestign the dirt itself.

I see what you mean now, and I think this would certainly be possible. The thing is, miners will still be able to use regular ol' weapons too, so the way they would defend them-self is with... well... weapons.

 

The way that I would see a weapon-ish tool be useful for PVP *and* mining would be mining-charges. It would be an explosive weapon that breaks up non-ore material (as you pointed out there) but would also potentially damage players and constructs to a lesser extent. It would probably use expensive ammo (as T&T in minecraft or similar items in other games are kinda pricey) but it would allow a player to mine lots of materials in a short time, so a good trade-off there.

 

I'd also be down for a ship-mounted jackhammer or piledriver, but not really for mining exactly. As an Outlaw Star junkey, I'm jonesing for a ship-mounted class of melee weapons. Grappling hooks, claws, jackhammers, beam lances, you name it I'd dig it (not super likely to actually happen though).

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8 minutes ago, wizardoftrash said:

I see what you mean now, and I think this would certainly be possible. The thing is, miners will still be able to use regular ol' weapons too, so the way they would defend them-self is with... well... weapons.

 

The way that I would see a weapon-ish tool be useful for PVP *and* mining would be mining-charges. It would be an explosive weapon that breaks up non-ore material (as you pointed out there) but would also potentially damage players and constructs to a lesser extent. It would probably use expensive ammo (as T&T in minecraft or similar items in other games are kinda pricey) but it would allow a player to mine lots of materials in a short time, so a good trade-off there.

 

I'd also be down for a ship-mounted jackhammer or piledriver, but not really for mining exactly. As an Outlaw Star junkey, I'm jonesing for a ship-mounted class of melee weapons. Grappling hooks, claws, jackhammers, beam lances, you name it I'd dig it (not super likely to actually happen though).

True, piledriver could sorta work for tunneling at least.

Mining resources is actaully rewarding, clearing dirt is not the best experience ever :P

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5 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Iirc your nanoformer will act as basic weapon too - perhaps a special "mode" or smth.

My concern is that people would be hanging out just outside the safe zone day 1 to zap people with their nanoformer.

 

If its something that you had to spec-into, or an "upgrade" to the nano-former that you'd have to craft I'd be fine with that.

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3 minutes ago, wizardoftrash said:

My concern is that people would be hanging out just outside the safe zone day 1 to zap people with their nanoformer.

 

If its something that you had to spec-into, or an "upgrade" to the nano-former that you'd have to craft I'd be fine with that.

Don't think they intend that to be very powerful or smth.

 

If it's an upgrade then ppl could just rush to get it asap and camp. As this is or should be basic imho, it doesn't rly matter

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Just now, Lethys said:

Don't think they intend that to be very powerful or smth.

 

If it's an upgrade then ppl could just rush to get it asap and camp. As this is or should be basic imho, it doesn't rly matter

Any starting "weapon" would hinder the process of people leaving the safezone to mine, since it would be such low hanging fruit (and exactly the kind of thing that would attract trolls).

 

If you have to craft the thing, then that might be enough of a deterrent for trolls to not bother, or at least reduce the number or provide some time day 1 for people to mine before there are weapons floating around.

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1 minute ago, wizardoftrash said:

Any starting "weapon" would hinder the process of people leaving the safezone to mine, since it would be such low hanging fruit (and exactly the kind of thing that would attract trolls).

 

If you have to craft the thing, then that might be enough of a deterrent for trolls to not bother, or at least reduce the number or provide some time day 1 for people to mine before there are weapons floating around.

You assume that everybody will just start at the same time. Or day. Which won't happen. So naturally, many dedicated people will have weapons anyway before the vast majority even logs in for the first time. So it really doesn't matter to me.

 

The safezone is 20 km radius, that's a huge circle to cover for trolls. They would only camp on the direct routes to the next deposits to catch people who just start running and don't think first. You never take the direct route - if you use your brains they won't catch you as there would need to bespend thousands to cover the whole arkzone.

 

I'm a fan of mechanics that forces people to think. And not just stupidly do whatever they're used to do in any other 0815 game

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3 minutes ago, Lethys said:

You assume that everybody will just start at the same time. Or day. Which won't happen. So naturally, many dedicated people will have weapons anyway before the vast majority even logs in for the first time. So it really doesn't matter to me.

 

The safezone is 20 km radius, that's a huge circle to cover for trolls. They would only camp on the direct routes to the next deposits to catch people who just start running and don't think first. You never take the direct route - if you use your brains they won't catch you as there would need to bespend thousands to cover the whole arkzone.

 

I'm a fan of mechanics that forces people to think. And not just stupidly do whatever they're used to do in any other 0815 game

you know what would require people to think? if they needed to actually craft their first weapon rather than starting with an indestructible unlootable weapon.

 

Otherwise you can get a situation where someone keeps respawning behind a bubbled grid with no gear, just attacking you again and again with their nanoformer. thats the kind of silly behavior you get when you "start" with a weapon, and it requires no thought to rush someone again and again "naked".

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5 minutes ago, wizardoftrash said:

you know what would require people to think? if they needed to actually craft their first weapon rather than starting with an indestructible unlootable weapon.

 

Otherwise you can get a situation where someone keeps respawning behind a bubbled grid with no gear, just attacking you again and again with their nanoformer. thats the kind of silly behavior you get when you "start" with a weapon, and it requires no thought to rush someone again and again "naked".

Cause that weapon is inherently op and there will be absolutely no armor at all which could mitigate a large chunk of that damage?

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I think since the nanoformer is essentially the Megaman arm, more or less, for it to have upgrades and modules, would make sense.

For example, a hacker has the hacker module put on it, which means they got to sacrifice a vanilla module - like mining oor building.

Likewise, builders can put a Tech-2 Build Module for whatever boost they get. More or less, customising the Nanoformer acts as a proxy for customing your avatar's utikliity slots.

That would take care of one of my issues with the game - everyone being able to dig and build at all times. Sure, one person could do all those things , like mining, building and using the nanoformer as a weapon, but they'd sacrifice other modules that are not by default on it.

I don't know, NQ knows best.

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2 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

I think since the nanoformer is essentially the Megaman arm, more or less, for it to have upgrades and modules, would make sense.

For example, a hacker has the hacker module put on it, which means they got to sacrifice a vanilla module - like mining oor building.

Likewise, builders can put a Tech-2 Build Module for whatever boost they get. More or less, customising the Nanoformer acts as a proxy for customing your avatar's utikliity slots.

That would take care of one of my issues with the game - everyone being able to dig and build at all times. Sure, one person could do all those things , like mining, building and using the nanoformer as a weapon, but they'd sacrifice other modules that are not by default on it.

I don't know, NQ knows best.

oh no, we actually agree on something

 

guess the world is ending again ;)

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Why would mining equipment need to be "weaponised" ?

 

Why not just carry a pistol or rifle in your inventory ?

 

You're going to be on foot while mining anyway. Anyone that attacks you with a ranged weapon will in all likelihood be out of range of your nanoformer or jackhammer or whatever. 

It certainly looks like NQ want to keep mining as a "up-close-and-personal" activity, so even if mining tools are added, they will most probably be "melee range".

 

I have no objection to mining tools being weaponised, but I just don't think they'll be very useful as a deterrent at all.

 

In fact, the nanoformer looks like it's attached to your right arm, so what would stop you from holding a pistol in your left hand ?

Unless NQ decide to impose the standard MMO trope, where your "off-hand" gets a 50% damage penalty, etc.

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9 hours ago, NanoDot said:

Why would mining equipment need to be "weaponised" ?

 

Why not just carry a pistol or rifle in your inventory ?

 

You're going to be on foot while mining anyway. Anyone that attacks you with a ranged weapon will in all likelihood be out of range of your nanoformer or jackhammer or whatever. 

It certainly looks like NQ want to keep mining as a "up-close-and-personal" activity, so even if mining tools are added, they will most probably be "melee range".

 

I have no objection to mining tools being weaponised, but I just don't think they'll be very useful as a deterrent at all.

 

In fact, the nanoformer looks like it's attached to your right arm, so what would stop you from holding a pistol in your left hand ?

Unless NQ decide to impose the standard MMO trope, where your "off-hand" gets a 50% damage penalty, etc.

It is a cybernetic limb, yes. Actually the avatars in DU are more or less cyborg, implant on the head, nanoformer, I'd be not surprised if instead of "hunger" we had just batteries we had to recharge and capacitors acting like a stamiba bar.

Either way, yes, NQ does want the mining to be done not vastly differently between newbros and veterans, howvever, giving miners a progrssion system witrh tols they can unlock doesn't hurt, that's the idea of the jackhammer from Landmark. You still had to use the Pickaxe to mine resources, the JAckhammer just made going through the dirt faster - it had a wider digging bubble and it would not actaully gather the dirt, thus leaving yur inventory open only for the minerals you wanted.

It's about efficiency in the operational way, not the statistic way. Both parties would mine the minerals using the nanoformer, one of them though has invested on a tool meant to make getting to the ore faster.  The guy without the jackhammer would have to destory dirt from his inventory to make room for the actual Ore they want, while the person with the jacxkhammer does that automatically - they ignore the dirt they dug.

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