Anaximander

But, what about KFC chickenwing shaped claims. I seen a bucket of KFC - many a times - it can fill perfectly to the brim with chickenwings.

Yes, but why not pizza-slice shaped triangles.

Learn geometry and see why that's not gonna change much. Shockerey has an answer on the previous page of this thread, do the rest on your own.

The amount of misinformed ignorance in this discussion is staggering. @blazemonger Do yourself a favor, do some research. You think your ignorance wins over facts. Deal with it, you will need to socialise. End of story. Be less of a Signal Cartel "tough talker", cause you will be punished for that in DU via mutuny. You wanna be a wolf? Better build a pack. NQ won't grant you an entire control over a ship like in EVE You'll have to earn it, not just train it. You won't have multiple ships controlled like your piece of crap of a trademark domi gatecamp multiboxing on Providence. RnK do nothing different than 20 organised people in Lineage 2 vs 100 people. You are not even understanding EVE's allure in combat , you are that much of an F1 monkey. RnK didn't invent focus targeting or the value of communication. RnK would field a powerful ship in DU, the one that builds fame cause the crew it has is skilled. That's actually awesome for anyone but your antisocial ''tough talker'' fantasy. DU can have logi ships. DU can have cruisers or battleships. What it won't have is power fantasy. ACCEPT IT. You are no uberman in DU to technopathically control a ship. It's in your favorite Providence crap, the Lore. Accept it you will need to learn not to be an F1 monkey in DU. Most of you people won't ever be considered for a battleship position period, most of you "automation" bois lack any ability to socialise enough and clearly YOU GUYS HATE teamwork which is why you want to be ''solo captain", cause you are griefers and only hang around people who grief for "fun" - not even piracy, just "kill miners for tears". Well, you will have to be exposed to your venom with multicrew ships.And I am happy about griefers having to eat each other alive inside a ship. makes me happy that mutinies will be a thing in DU. Accept comradery as a part of a ship, or opt to flying spacecraft, not spaceships, those two types don't mean the same.

I like the way this guy thinks.

@blazemonger You also suggested s DU Convention be named DUCON, so you might not have a solid grasp on accurate depictions of certain things. Lua is meant for macros, aka sequences of actions, not self-looping motions that require no trigger by the player. Hitting flip and burn requires player judgement, the script doing it for you does not. Also, if you don't like JCs vision of people working together, you can leave, DU is not EVE where everyone is a captain. That's its difficulty, that you need actual social skills to earn a ship chair by managing a crew. I should not expect anything better from an EVE F1 monkey ''captain'' though. You clearly lack any social skills Better not be highly ambitious, unlike EVE, DUAL Universe is not power fantasy.

See, people will copy the model that works. If a proper fighting force recognises a shi pof X mass and Y weapons as a Cruiser, then people will just mmimic that and call it a cruiser. I mean, people copy more stupid things in other MMOS, like item-builds, playstyles and even entire metas are born that way.

The same amount of automation a mechanical keyboard can achieve - most mechanical keybaords utilise Lua for their macros. Pretty thorough if you set it up right, but do not expect they keyboard to do things for you.

@Precise_Calibre I think She has certain supermixes going with long loops.

See, you think of this the wrong way. Griefing is not limited to killing. It's about causing the other person stress by making them feel under duress. And I can DAC my accounts to achieve the desired outcome, this is called awoxing, it's how EVE mercs work. Sooner or later, the preson you try to stress out, bend under the pressure. Entire sections of alliances' militaries are devoted on that very thing, Black Ops, with the sole intent of causing enemy CEOs stress. That will be part of DU - as long as it doesn't extend to IRL stupidity, keep the actions only in-game. Killing you? No. DISBANDING your entire alliance and giving away all your assets by setting the RDMS tag to "all", is how awoxing works. This kind of thing took drown an 8000 people alliance in EVE Online, just this september alone. And that was not even mercwork, just a guy who sold his side out cause of a differnece he had with the leader of the alliance over their political direction in the game. This is why LITERALLY Star Citizen has a big following, people from EVE who got rekt like that got into Star Citizen with the hopes of "being top dog" once more. EVE Online is about PvP as much as DU is very braodly attached to it. And guess what, PvP is not limited to pew pew. Some times, taking away the other person's money and assets is enough for them to ragequit the game. But hey, if you reached the point that a person is willing to sell out Billions of in-game money to make you ragequit, you must have made some serious enemies, you knew what you signed up for the moment you provoked an other big fish. Just don't think mercs and griefing as "kill the other guy". This video from EVE Online, sums up my point - this is a common thing in EVE, revenge sagas :

You confuse automation with artifical intelligence - like most people unfamiliar with the tertms tend to also confuse "carbine" and "rifle". Automation is me doing a flip-and-burn by pressing one button. A.I. would be for me to do nothing while my ship does all the flying for me on its own on a loop. Lua is used to make macrocommands - macro, greek word for "long" or "vast". Lua is there to perform REALLY complicated tasks for you, not for you to not need to do anything at all. Stop asking for crap like that. Also, the LORE is pretty clear why A.I. are not liked in DU's universe. People in that timeline of events had seen A.I. taking every aspect of their lives away and due to the A.I. not going Papa Skynet's way, they were lucky and it didn't rebel. In fact, Aphelia (the Novark A.I.) has tha greek word for its name that means "Naivety". Take what you will out of the A.I's name, prolly they coded it to nmaive, cause naive people are spinless and are incapable of acting in a cunning way, or lack any paranoia to be subtle. There is an ancient greek saying, "aphelis osan moron". Yes, that "moron", it's the same "moron" used today, which refers to people who think like babies and the phrase literally means "naive like baby". There is a common-day phrase that has usurped that phrase of antiquity. "I wasn't born yesterday", or, you can say that Aphelia is just a "moron" that "was born yesterday" that will do whatever you ask of her, like, train you with ways to murder people or save your bacon when you die - regardless if you are a known serial killier or not. I know, that's some heavy philosophical shit.

Oh sweet summer child, you've seen no winters yet. You confuse evicting with griefing.

That's administration. People confuse administration with politics. It's not the same. Most people want to be "Supreme Galactic Commander" but when the griefing hits them they are like "oh, this game is so bad, so toxic, why are people attacking me" Why? Cause a guy paid me to drive that person to quitting their position - or the game altogether - cause I am a merc and I just do that for a living. That's the kind of rude awakening I am talking of. Anyone who wants to be "top dog" should accept the fact they'll be griefed a lot. It's how the sandbox goes.

Play the game as it was meant to be played - with other people. Oh, you don't want that? Well, you better become an acrobat then and fly around a bridge on your very own, trying to keep up with the world's most mentally taxing and stressful whack-a-mole. NQ won't provide you with automation to compensate for what a crew has to do.

Conquer my enemies, see them driven before me and hear the lamentations of the carebears.

Thing is, this is a non-issue. NQ provides the tools, we shape the meta. The very fact it's not "1 man 1 ship" in DU, is evident of that. For an EVE player you failed to realise one of the golden rules of EVE : "there's no right way of playing EVE", that's why you can't see the beauty of EVE's depth, cause you trhink "Isk positive" means "good player". Will there be scrubs who only fly "The Edgelord Kewl Ship" ??? Yes, that's the flaking point with the in-game market and blueprint. Tha'ts where it's based, that people LIKE one particualr ship and buy it all the time. Those ships may be cost effective, they might be REALLY blinged out ,they might be really coo looking or w/e. Tha' ts PART of DU's selling point for builders - make the best ship, become rich. What are you even doing in this commuintiy if you hate one of its core game features which is heavily reliant on a meta existing to begin with?

@Lethys Don't even bother with him anymore. I'd point out that Vorengard is just breaking down as this thread goes by. Does Vorengard even know that ships in EVE do need tactical placement? Has he ever even seen a bomber fleet doing a drive-by during a fleet engagement? Does he know how bombs work in EVE even? Has he ever even deployed a cyno??? I am pretty sure tactical positioning comes down to scouts doing their job right. Has he even ever done scouting or does he only fly Caracals to stay "Isk positive" ? I ber he only flies Caracals, Thrashers and - maybe - Machariels. Anything else? "Not in the meta".

You can have market analytics displayed on the market unit for that specific market unit's or territory's ttraffic in the market to predict the "flow". It's not hard to code, it's literally as easy as making vectors displaying a graph.You don't need to have omniscience in the form of knowing what every single market i nthe whole server's marekt units have in price ranges. You know, be social, ask around, be a human being. Problem is, "market bots" is how stupid people get exploited by Insider Trading. As for the API thing, they said it's not a priority of theirs. Also, NQ has said in the past they won't allow of player market bots. You know, for the same reason : 1) you won't have drones do the fight on your behalf. 2) you won't have offline protection on your ship. 3) you won't have automated turrets on your ship. You know, so the game is not "one player per ship". But hey, since I feel itchy, here let me punch holes in your logic some more : How exactly will NQ know what I discussed with people off of the game? Number one lapse in logic "Comms records". Apparently, you don't know what Discord is. Cargo Manifests... why would I want the whole server to know what I have stored on my station? Why? So I can have tactical pirate attacks launched? "Oh hey, this station is a pinyata for loot, so much shit in it, look ,we just found out by the API keys that got leaked to us!". You are asking for NQ to force everyoen to show their hands to everyone on the server. You know, also known as "Stupid Poker". Station Logs : Yey, let's show everyone where people have docked. That won't go bad, it's not like mercenaries will grief you easy peasy that way. They won't even have to look for you, set up a script, run an API key for anyone's location - which is not hard to get someone's API key lol, EVE is notorious for this, spies are a bitch - and voila, grief on demand. Such a brilliant plan, so far all I see is : "Give me tools to make grief, scam and trolling bots pl0x!" I am a scammer, but at least I do it manually and have to actually read the market analytics thoroughly to do my thing. Your suggeestion just insulted my scammer self in a fundamental level as a scammer, a scoundrel and a ruffian. Also, no amount of Bots will be able to predict a market move that involves things like a war. Nothing wil lbe able to predict that. Only thing that will be able to inform you of such a thing is knowledge of current events and ties (bribing or social ones) with people of access to high comamnd to get a knowledge of "hey, war will break out around X region, move your assets to Alpha station if you want to set up a monopoly when the war starts, the Y alliance uses Beta ships, so buy a lot of bluepritns cheap and sell them high." You know, the above example? That's how you actually make money. Bots are only good for adjusting prices according to the Point-1 Rule - and even then, it's risky.

The Band of Outlaws is not needing of promotions good sir! The Band of Outlaws is promoting itself with every single proof we are working efficiently without drama! Join the Band of Outlaws today! Punch a bear, blow up ships and praise the Honeybadger!

Nice, yet in none of those you were solo PvP. You had 25 other people in all of the kills Which is not "bad", it's a team game, but how can you not see the value of tactics, when you have 7 Billion isk ships in your killboard? Oh yeah, you just blob, casual risk averse individual in EVE who only stat pads his account. Tsk tsk tsk. No wonder you think EVE's meta is not shallow, it's you who is shallow. P.S. : You should be asking for no killboards if you want people to be more tactical and less "metal" and just blobing people. No wonder you haven't seen good fights, you are in NC, you guys could not do tactics even if your life depended on it.

@Vorengard You clearly never left Hi-Sec. See, in Null-Sec? Yeah, that lovely place, it's where EVE's tactical depth shows up. It's where shit like Widow VS Bhaalgorn goes down, where if you don't ECM the Bhaalgorn you will lose the fight. I'm guessing Widows are not tanky ships according to you. Just a non threatening Black Ops Battleship with a no biggy deal of "hey, that ship carries a Covert Jump Portal Generator, it's no big threat, nah, let the BlOps ship open a bridge to bring in a blob". Since you live in Hi-Sec attend EVE University, they might explain to you how to judge a ship's strengths and how to make youreself appear less threatening as well. See, you can't get more tactical than EVE mate. And even better, DU has no predefined ships to begin with, which makes the situation even more of an unpredictable enviroment for tactical play. In EVE, you can't fit a Drake hull with lasers, cause "reasons". In DU, you'll have to actually check what the other guy has - unless they got the turrets hiudeen with layers of armor. Or, have a known freighter hull fitted with guns and armor, take out the cargo containers and put in ammo boxes or extra sustainability for shields. now you got a bait-ship. See, you have "Hi-Sec" written with neon lights on your face, cause you clearly never done baits like that. You never used an Baiteron Mk V to bait hi-sec suicide gankers and just get them killed for teh lulz. You are too honorable for that, right? That's why you can't enjoy EVE's tactical depth - or why you don't have any knowledge of such tactics. I can also see it now. I thought you were just another EVE hater, I can now see it clear as day - you are the kind of person who only does what the "meta" dictates. You won't enjoy DU, you lack imagination. But hey the,Band of Outlaws is not beneath baiting with fake space-trucks. We love a good fight, but we love even more a fight that is not seen coming when the other guys attack us. We fight with no honor, which is why we have fun (and are Drama-free).

Well, those people you can easily tell apart. in EVE, multiboxing is not punishable, botting is. If a perso nwants to pay for 3 accounts to do each job at 1/3 of its efficiency, they should go ahead, those targets are the easiest to gank.The very nature of the hit calculations means ou can't just "lock and forget" a target. Especially if they use ECMs and target-breakers.

@Vorengard We know the combat system requires ray-casting, they said it a billion times they will retrofit the digging bubbles to make a soft-lock targeting system. Deal with it. Also, EVE's "static meta", is "static" cause it has 40 different variations on the Trinity, not one simpleton model of The Trinity. It's hard to change a meta, when you have enriched it so much over 15 years. 15 years of adding new stuff in the game, for small and large scale warfare. I guess what you are saying is "don't add complexity NQ, pl0x, we are simple meme farmers, no science guys". Too bad, JC said it in the GDC stream after the Q&A, they want EVE's complex ship fitting theorycrafting and spreadsheets in DU. It's what makes the game interesting. Capacitor Warfare ships are just one branch of the "Tank" role. ECM ships are notoriously tanky by nature cause when their name shows up as "Jammed by Twerkmotor" yo uare going to feel the pain. The "Tank" role in EVE extends to : - Heavy Interdiction Cruisers : they won't allow you to leave the fight via warp and they can deploy a mobile Warp Dirsuption bubble oaround them. - Command Destroyers / Command Battlecruisers : they provide bonuses to tracking and other "aura" type buffs. They are flafgships and those "Auras" are the thing the enemy sees and knows "that ship needs to go boom" - Heavy Assault Cruisers : an all around pain. - Statis Grappler Ships : they slow you to a crawl, a weapon that coutners "speed tanks". - and so many more! Not to mention, the obvious Super-Capitals, like Dreadnaughts, Super-Carriers, Force Auxiliaries and Titans. But, see, a Capacitor Warfare ship won't do much against a ship with defenses against it (i.e. Batteries, if you dont't understand why, you don't know physics or the differnece between batteries and capacitors). A Bhaalgorn Batleship can't energy drain if its Energy Drain weapons can't be used cause it's jammed. That makes enemy ECM ships - especially the one who is JAMMING the Bhaalgorn - the Tank of the enemy side. but how do you stop a battleship from Jamming the bhaalgorn? By jamming the enemy battleship of course! How? Send in a squadron of frigates to ECM the enemy ship that can ECM, like the Black Ops Battleship Widow. So now, you got people demanding coordination to win the fight. This is how tactical prowess is shown. And this is why you don't want that, you don't want this level of tactics, cause you lack proper discipline for mass PvP. You seem to think "working together in battle" as "static meta". Yes, apparently, the whole "teamwork" meta is terrible, lol. DU can go one step beyond EVE, since Bhaalgorns are sort of rare ships to find due to how blueprints work in EVE. DU can make Energy Drain weaponry hhave really exotic minerals involved or very high-tech modules, which makes them not something you can just slap onto a ship and be done with it. Like it or not, this is a really possible thing for DU. Mana Burn is a staple of any MMO game, in one way or another. You say "stunlock" I say "Jammed to death", you say MAnaburn , I say Energy Burn. I will be expecting your arguement of how "Teamwork and ship doctrines and tactics will kill the game!111" and all that jazz, to be honest, you admitted you don't like disciplined warfare. Either ECM or Capacitor Warfare or Tractor Beams of Doom, The Tank will be a thing for certain ship roles. Threat is something that builds up over-time. And as you noticed all those three things I mentioned? The longer they are up during a battle, the worse the situation becomes, hence why people "prime the Bhaalgorn".. That sthing? Tha'ts not "repetitive meta", that's called "Experienced Fleet Commander knowing what the shit he's supposed to do". You know, the whole thing about "al lthe thing you do is just orbiting the FC and doing nothing else?", yeah, see, that's called "following orders", it's part of being in an organised group. Like the Band of Outlaws.

In EVE Online - the only other MMO with a single-shard that's not a joke (looking at you Albion Online) - the only way a "tank" can get aggro in PvP, is if it's an energy drain ship. Energy Drain is like Mana Drain and Energy Neutralisation is like Mana Burn. No energy = you die. And so the priority becomes "kill the Bhaalgorn" (the battleship class that can drain and neutralise energy like no other). That's the only real threat that you can impose in PvP. In WoW, healers like priests were focued in Arenas, cause of their mana burn abilitiy. You needed to kill that Mana Burn spam or force the healer to go into "turtle" mode and shut down their mana-burn to sustain themselves. And that's the case for EVE Online's model - and how it sohuld be done in DU. "Bombers" mean nothing, they are DPS, you can sustain a lot of DPS with shields up and coordination betwen repari ships, but you can't sustain any DPS if you got no shields. So a "tanker-bomber" is something I'd laugh at and just drain it of energy, then move to the repair ships, then to the dps ships and just loot you all for spare parts. I don't need tye space turck if I can just loot their escort ships. If you want the "holy trinity" you should be asking for energfy drain modules \