Warden

Possible English name so far: Spatial Republic of Germany / Rhineland / [Other name] (SRG / SRR in short) I would personally suggest and prefer a modern or non-monarchic / imperial system as it would allow bigger participation through elections and changing higher leadership positions regularly, but require a higher amount of people to possibly make it feasible. Still looking for those who can generally imagine taking part actively in building this. As the task is not an easy one, those who are willing to invest time in the long-run and those with certain skillsets (writing forth a background and lore, utilizing multimedia such as logos, videos and so on and perhaps those with certain other experiences or skills that might benefit the creation) are preferred or needed to form a stable foundation that will last. Those already part of organizations such as companies can also assist if they intend to interact with the "SRG" later on or want to base their business there, in parts or completely. In turn, I suppose helping early would entail certain political or other positions. I, for example, later on intend to focus on security related matters, but many spots will have to be filled. We are essentially trying to create a state. Not easy, tough, a headache, but likely rewarding in the long run.

Perhaps we should indeed specify on the "stealing" aspect. How do we define "steal" (theft) in this case? Some physical blueprint object or simply copying the design, by hand perhaps? Both? If the design isn't overly unique or exotic, it could even happen that at least by visual design, concepts could be created by multiple parties and look alike. Do we then expect NQ to jump to our side? What if some design was recreated by coincidence without the other party supposedly knowing the "original design" existed in the first place? Of course as potential creator, I'm not fond of seeing my work being copied and sold under a different name and so on. But here, I consider this to be part of the game to some extend if we highlight emergent gameplay and player policing. Then, players should also deal with these conflicts. I'd also argue that corporate espionage may just be part of the game. You have to (try to) protect what is vital to your organization, just like in reality, where companies have to protect their sensitive data, or they risk that far eastern competitors simply imitate the product or create an exact copy of some factory over there and "leech". If it helps, if something gets heavily imitated or stolen and sold cheaper - you're still the original creator. Might have some economic damage there or, worst case, loss of a whole project before it picks up, but hey... you still did it. If people consider it that critical, create an in-game / player run authority or entity to deal with these disputes, perhaps - or use other pressure if you suspect IP theft and whatnot. But that's just me...

Old post I lost in a nutshell: You can always essentially "unseat" someone and remove them from power in some fashion - if nothing else works you can take a majority in an organization and make it again. All "fed up" with "the person in power" then recreate it in another org and possibly take assets with them or something, or making them again. What power is left if but a few or none remain? Or you try to wage some kind of resistance war as rebels where you try to gain ground or force change with violence. For you (closet-)rebels out there, random motivational scene:

Or try this one, maybe: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/10801-%E2%98%91-the-unofficial-looking-for-organization-thread/

I should add (and possibly clarify above) that it is of course not so much the real nationality, but language skills. Swiss, Austrian, German, anyone who can speak decent German and understand it. And once a system is in place, anyone else, really. Oktoberfest? Probably. A street? Not flexible or too small in scale in my book. Possibly quickly exhausted.

The thread title is somewhat explanatory. But let's jump in further. Vat? What? A German* state in Dual Universe ===================================================================================== A country, state, republic (etc.) with German cultural influences, modelled either after a modern day Germany or a somewhat imperial version (think of WW1 ... not WW2). Ideally filled with / supported by German speaking players but open to others in general in the end. This thread is supposed to promote the idea and to roughly assess interest in this idea through user commentary on the subject. TL;DR: Interested in (or against) a nation type of organization with more heavy German influences or mostly organized and founded by German speaking players for those and potentially others? Comment below. *Open to any German speaker including those from Austria, Switzerland and beyond - more on this below Inspiration and lore ===================================================================================== Inspiration from this can be found in a game called "Freelancer". Long story short, in the future there is a war in this solar system between an "Alliance" (the western cultures and factions) and a "Coalition" (you may have guessed it, certain Eastern countries or cultures). Over a long period, the Coalition finally gets the upper hand. In a last move, a hand full of Alliance sleeper ships break through a blockade and head for a far-away sector in space where they intend to rebuild, away from their enemy. The unique trait among the sleeper ships is that each mostly contained people of a certain heritage, and each ship would form a new state in the new sector inspired by it - you'd see four states in the game covering a state modelled after the United States, England, Germany and Japan, or those cultural influences respectively. Liberty - Bretonia - Rhineland - Kusari: Each a piece of the past, continued in the future. If you look at it superficially, the story there isn't overly different from the one we have in Dual Universe - sure, humanity does not appear to be at war with each other and rather trying to get away from Earth, just like those sleeper ships in "Freelancer". But is it too strange to assume that old things might be carried over into the new home? Let us look just look briefly at Freelancer again: Despite there basically being just two power blocks left in that long war, the survivors of the last battle still formed new individual states - just like the community in Dual Universe forms new unique factions. Is it that far off to see nations or states form based on culture. I don't think so, thus it seems that no matter how the world may have looked at the time of departure, we might find a logical explanation for this project and endeavour. Doubts? Specifics? That is up for debate - take part in it! What do we look for? What don't we look for? Specifics? ===================================================================================== This is essentially Phase 1 - trying to find volunteers for a basic foundation that may or may not grow over time. The German(-speaking) community, and then the general community will have to decide over time whether there is hard demand for this or not. The idea of a German state isn't just self-service for select few. There is a potential unique positive aspect: serving as general anchor or place to go for the German(-speaking) community and players to come later on. Why is it a state? The idea is to go beyond classic organizations and incorporate a wider array of people by default. Let's start with a simple definition or formula of what we need. Georg Jellinek once defined what would somewhat translate to "3-element-theory" in terms of what defines a state: People Territory An authority, a government, a ruling power The idea, therefore, is to later have citizens (think of main residents; next to guests, visitors, tourists, etc), a location in space, like a part of a planet like today, a complete planet, a partial / complete solar system or sector and some form of government. But how should it look like? That's yet uncertain. The initial idea is that it either looks like a modern Germany and parliamentary republic, thus, with votes of some kind or some eventual rotation of offices and what not or some more ... static structure, like some form of monarchy perhaps. This is mostly a choice for structure and changes and then a bit of style so far. There is no intend to revive any parts of actual history in how it progressed. No matter the form, whether there will be some Emperor or Chancellor as head of state/government or whatever, we look for a modern day approach to politics and thus no warmongering state or mentality unless things naturally develop like this. Diplomatic relations to other entities will therefore be expected. Who do we look for primarily so far? Right now, what is needed is people willing to support - either as future citizens or, ideally, as members of the government in some fashion or form who will form the foundation. Anyone can in theory take part, but for core government positions we look for German-speaking people due to the fact that despite translations, a lot will later be handled in German in internal or local communication on platforms or in the game, and to keep it somewhat authentic to some level. This may ease up later and change, open up, so to speak, but for now you should ideally be German-speaking, while you do not necessarily have to be from Germany or an actual German citizen. Austrians, Swiss and others can thus take part if they have sufficient language skills. For core government positions on an upper level, you ideally: have sufficient German and English skills (this is why this is in English in the first place and not German) are of somewhat more mature character or mindset when it matters can provide a certain time commitment per week are willing to actively take part and provide feedback while you respect others in the process It won't be a walk in the park, thus certain requirement must be set. These are just initial core expectations from what I can tell so far; Multimedia and other skills might factor in as well at one point. Interested? ===================================================================================== Simply express it here or send me a message. If there is enough (long-term) demand and participation, a formal organization can be created once certain specifics have been set. Other assets can then also be created or maintained.

Perhaps as your main residency, people want the big and fancy buildings. But there's also room for (pun intended) the flats, apartments, etc in larger cities and skyscrapers. We can theorize that - assuming DU will be a notable success and that the game play mechanics or social interactions will encourage the following - many players might visit different cities and regions over time - like in reality. I assume not all social interactions or discussions and (trade) negotiations will be done via the internet or platforms such as this forum, discord, etc. Out of the game, I mean. For practical reasons, people might meet in various places and be far from their original "home". And what would come in handy? A home away from home, a place to store goods and go back to. Dub it whatever you want, you can also dig a hole somewhere and call it safe house. Solutions: "Hotels" or rentable / buyable flats, apartments, houses that other people provide in urbanized and claimed environments with the necessary usage rights so that it can work as intended. Win/win, kind of. If I fly across half the galaxy and need to stay in some other place for some prolonged time, having some place to go to that I "own" and can store items or meet up with others would be nice - and I surely can't build a fancy mansion somewhere for a week-trip or so. If I ever get involved in city construction, I'll build an apartment block or skyscraper or encourage the construction of a few, set up to provide living / storage space to others. Might just make a few bucks in the long run, even if not many might use it. In a big city and trade hub, it might just come in handy for you as provider and those who come from far away and need to stay for a while, or simply want to have some house in that city if they ever come back later.

It seems unlikely that players themselves will operate any public transportation system such as buses or trains (a Taxi might work, on demand, etc). Either of those could work automated (without a human operator) to make sure there is 24/7 coverage. Both trains and buses can work, with trains or subways covering moderate to larger distances and buses smaller to moderate distances - or even larger ones if more "rural". You'd still have to wait a bit for the next train or bus to arrive. The question is how feasible this will be in smaller areas or settlements / villages if someone could utilize their ship to get to certain areas directly and likely faster. A transportation network will likely make more sense and is worth the effort for larger cities or connecting cities or settlements. It would mind those who simply move on foot or with ground based vehicles (thus making "roads" useful, too). If you have a ship and are not restricted from using it somehow, great. Some people might just not have one ready, in the shop or actually look to traverse a city on foot and then public transportation can come in handy. If the whole city or a large part is underground, then you may likely be forced to use it unless there are large open spaces for you to maneuver a ship around. At the end of the day, my suggestion is: If you plan to build a major city, plan ahead and incorporate public transportation into the design. Or roads. Even if traffic can mostly be air-based and thus direct, it'll feel organic to many players and those without a ship can quickly get around then. In addition, the bigger the place, the more feasible side-jobs might become, such as "taxi drivers". "I wouldn't sit in a car all day and drive people around the city" is likely what some might think or say now. I say: Yeah, you might not, but can we really tell how big some cities might be later on? How much general attraction they might attract? For all we know, there could be major cities later with hundreds of people moving about on average. Business hubs. Maybe some will ban ships or restrict their use somehow, and effectively, forcing people to utilize more ground based traffic. If people need to move about and are willing to pay, taxi driving can be an untapped market and someone might just be willing to earn bucks like that. Alternatively, building public transportation can become beneficial and result in monetary rewards for the creators.

Interesting point. I think in those "classic" building focused sandbox games, this might have different influences on people (sub-)consciously because assets are perhaps more visible, persistent, obvious and thus might influence or provoke different reactions. You might just establish a connection with the surroundings better than in simple space where ships move about and are often not at one fixed spot, nor that custom opposed to buildings and constructs you built piece by piece. Still, in the end, it really depends on many factors. Might result in more long-term group or identity survival, might also just result in some "civilizations" (larger groups with custom identities) perishing and leaving behind a Fallout-esque world with slowly decaying or destroyed infrastructure, should said group fall apart and move away or not care for said constructs anymore. It would certainly be harder to just quickly "pack things up and move to a new group" if you invested into buildings and whatnot though. If I had a larger city but human organization or command would subjectively begin to be "faulty" I think I'd rather try to encourage positive changes (again, subjectively anyway) than immediately run off I think - if said building effort could be saved, not abandoned.

I simply view it on a large scale: nothing lasts forever. Time kills everything; all Empires fall. You can only try to delay this process. How? Many above have given tips or explained how to not fail too early. I think it is vital to not start with (or develop) the expectation to rule it all or expand endlessly. Expectations, skills and having the right people in the right positions. Easier said than done.

I chuckled a bit at "to just use their symbol". Perhaps to others beyond Europe or certain states in Europe it might seem more trivial, but in the end the swastika is a special case of the not so distant past and as someone already said also banned or restricted in public (in Germany) unless under few restricted cases such as teaching history in class or showing it in a museum, etc. Sometimes it still seems surprising to me how "unrestrained" the use or praise of this symbol or ideology is in other nations, especially if they also fought in the war (against Germany), almost making it somewhat ironic. Why all that now? Simple: many in Europe tend to think differently or critical about this compared to those from other parts of the world. This means that the swastika is perhaps a simple, yet unfitting example to pull up in the debates over and over again as it is a special case. Given history and how many (here) think about it, it should be outright banned in general as it basically also relates to actual genocide, warmongering, etc. If you invented your own symbol that would relate to these things in a purely fictional context, merely "in-game", no one would probably bat an eyelash if there was no obvious reference to a real comparable ideology.

I get that different people have different problems - and different people will weigh their problems in different categories, meaning that something one considers trivial could be a big depression for someone else. But it all does not help: If you fall down, you can either stand back up (slowly or quickly, alone or with help, with or without research on how to pick a good approach) or continue to lie down and bicker or slowly drown in the misery. We all have to die at one point, so just by selfish reasons alone I don't think insisting on misery or taking your life (like some people do) is "clever". Then again, I apply some sort of minimum way of life or wealth here, by western standards. Someone going through literal hell in an oppressive system or captivity may obviously think different about depression or even "going out", but I think this hardly applies to anyone here. If you have the time to wait for online games while having some computer or similar and internet access, you at least have some material minimum standards or 'wealth'. But again, a lot is relative and dynamic or dependent on many factors. Some can't take certain things as well as others or recover from them (mentally). And many have different options. Some might be lucky, some might be unlucky. -------------------- This might sound simple (while doing so might not be simple at all), but all I can really say in the end is: If you think you lose control of your life, take control back or at least try to regain a stable footing. That's the essence. If you can't do it alone in a healthy amount of time, try to do so with assistance instead. What might also help is how you measure or weigh things. Always assume there are people off way worse than you - perhaps some problems you might see aren't as bad then. A lot is mental, so tweaking said mental stance can already help. If it helps: I've seen my fair share of death (very direct relatives etc) at a young age and also other types of misery, so I speak with a "bit" of experience there instead of just talking out of my ass from the high horse to motivate people. I kind of learned the hard way, with fate forcing things on me and my surroundings. And guess what? Obviously, I am still alive. Didn't try to kill myself, didn't cut my wrists, got a good job despite the drama taking a toll on grades. How or why? Simply by getting back up at one point - or not going nuts. Without knowing the details of your stress I like to think it's currently not as bad as things I had to go through, so with a bit of mental adjustment and then trying to work on said sources of stress, you should eventually be fine-ish again.

The starting planet or ark ship settlement would need to be somewhat large if we rule out different starting worlds. I just cannot imagine several thousand players in one relatively small place. Even if the tech makes it possible, it may not be overly helpful when I try to think how crowded and potentially "unusable" any local or global chat might become. Surely it will be figured out and then chosen wisely until (late) Beta or so.

In response to the more recent posts, there is a relatively high(er) entry barrier or success threshold due to many factors - if you want a professional approach, that is. Hence, I would not bother if you can't bring a set of skills, people or a plan. In terms of just having members obscured, I would also recommend just not using the DU organizations or obscuring it.

Definitively useful to have just like in reality, as your coverage area can greatly increase no matter if it is for a shop, base, house, ship or city. I (literally) saw the advantages of those in G-Mod in an RP setting with active game play involved. Even used active cameras to catch a criminal once.

If I had to pick between "for free / low price to appease more" and "sustainable pricing to afford staff and tech to make this a reality as intended" then I would pick the more sustainable model. Everything has a price. I will pay a bit more or in the first place if I get something proper in return and from the looks of it, this game will already be better than the average (theme park) MMORPG you also pay roughly a dozen bucks for. A dozen bucks or a bit more (per month) for a vast universe with emergent gameplay and with the option to obtain game time by playing? Sounds like a good deal.

People (some) tend to overreact in those discussions at times (not an exclusive trait to roleplayers it seems). Most of the time when more customisation or "free customisation" (player can pick, create or upload a lot) becomes a topic I sometimes get the impression some draw a "end of the (virtual) world" scenario - and the game is not even playable for the community. Of course concerns can be valid! However there can be a fine line between legit concerns and slight overreacting I think. An impromptu example I can think of is Minecraft where some (still) believe it's full of (challenged?) children placing genitalia / swastikas everywhere. While it might be true for some MC users or communities, you could find quite serious and advanced places like the Civcraft community. In the end we should not forget we might see many sovereign or controlled places in DU due to emergent gameplay and whatnot. Even in some worst-case for some: you could just ban or outlaw or frown upon certain styles or clothing - or at least give people odd looks! Oh the psychological pressure! I'm a fan of immersion n' all but "Oh my immersion, this guy looks silly!" hardly becomes some legit concern if you don't police your areas accordingly, assuming it happens on your ground. In other places you might just have to live with it. Even if nothing "silly" is added in that regard, people can still act silly anyway.

Dunno, it can be a nice feeling if you feed settlements, cities or troops on some distant battlefield with the food you distribute. In addition having your own supply or farm in some base and becoming relatively self sufficient is another thing I like. I mostly enjoy the added difficulty or aspect of logistics in terms of survival just like some portential refuel, repair or natural hazards aspect.

In general you (the average player) can suggest all you want and that is fine. But in the end, the devs decide. Time shall tell, if not the more convincing argument. I lean back and wait while throwing the occasional idea out there. Chances are customisation will be sufficient enough given what they roughly aim for.

I'm for a new brand, custom to DU. "Hello Doggo" Dibs. Also: "Hello Birb"

Voted for almost every type in the first one besides Hilarious and Wizard / Witch, which could be a bit too odd. I even see a place for tron-looking clothes for test labs or contests in some arena. Medieval looking armor? Given the many possibilities and despite the high-tech setting one should not rule out that "low-tech" could still exist or be used if other tech breaks down or does not become available. E.g. some group crash landing and developing independently over time, possibly resulting in crude armor comparable to knights. I think less of an exact copy there, while also including simple clothing you might know from the medieval era, not just armor. If you just spin it right or think broad, all of that would work. Even "Hilarious" or "Wizard/Witch". How? Well, look at reality. People use costumes for parties or other things, or in theatre. Chances are they won't run around in public with that beyond events or parties. But in a game, of course, you might just see some average Joe run around in some odd outfit all the time. Best example: MMORPGS. Pros and Cons for many things.

Imagine signs at doorways to shops or places in DU later saying "No ponies / kitties allowed".

Woops.

"Arker" almost sounds like a hardcore drug addict on some drug called "Ark". At least that is what it could also sound like. But then again, should this game become very good, it would be like a drug for many.

"Forgiving and forgetting is a crucial part of life."