Moosegun
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Posts posted by Moosegun
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2 minutes ago, _Kiwi_ said:
Does anyone have a video of it happening?
No, because it is not really a problem, it is a minor irritation which will probably be removed in further development but someone is going to make a massive deal out of it and act like it is game breaking...... seen it all before
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2 hours ago, Anomaly said:
If you are speaking of the general tone of my posts then I will agree with you. The NQ devs spoke in a very professional manner when they permabanned players for exploiting a RDMS mistake the devs tell players they are responsible for. I would have never considered punishing players for my mistake but I don't hold myself to the same account.
Ahhhh so you are stating your opinions as fact, the devs are 'nasty' because you do not agree with something they have done, not for an actual valid reason. For what it is worth, I and MANY others (you can tell that from the massive backlash on the videos on the subject) agreed with NQ on that one.
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You are making the massive assumption that the player feedback is only coming from players who are still in the game. If NQ have any sense at all, they will be segmenting out, and focusing heavily on, information from players who HAVE LEFT THE GAME.
Also I am not sure there is anything NQ are developing, working on, focusing there times on which has not always been on the development schedule. Can you be more specific about where the game has been taken off track?
Finally why do you think 'DU would be way better with NPC's' a little confusing too, sounds like a personal opinion dressed up as a fact, I would hate NPC's in DU........ are you also mistaking what you want in the game with what the game NEEDS?
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Just now, Hiturn said:
Well I bring stuff from Thades 1 where I "live" to Allioth time to time.Here is a different world. There aren't that many newbies buying overpriced stuff.People wont buy 340k T2 ->300 or 290 or they aren't getting sold and I will start stockpilling them.
If I go higher than 40-60% cut on some products they dont sell because people craft them themselves as they should.
Again will have to disagree, if you sell the right stuff on other planets it sells, I am selling things like terri capture units and containers at huge markups, and engines and stuff. We have bases on several planets and a lot of people selling out there, things are quieter of course, so product choice is important, industry always does well for us on other planets. The key thing is not to be lazy, 100 product on 10 markets, is a LOT better than 100 on 1.
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3 minutes ago, Emptiness said:
I suppose my mistake is assuming all buyers will choose the most efficient product when they may often choose to pay a premium to get everything at one stop.
One of the long list of reasons why people dont buy the cheapest
- the instant buy button
- people are buying loads of things and as you say, only want to stop once
- people are lazy and quanta is easy
For months I have been telling people this and noone really listens, if you are put off from trying to sell stuff because you are looking at the cheapest other players are selling at in ANY market, you are playing it wrong, sorry. and people like me are buying your stuff in bulk, moving it and tripling our money....... or just selling stuff noone else does as just below bots prices. -
4 minutes ago, Hiturn said:
I am not sure what L atmos are you talking about, I suppose you talking about basic atmospheric engines L .Bots buy L Atmos at 80k and they sell at 500k . I sell L atmos (T1 and T2) and if I place the the T1 at 200k they wont get sold.I am selling them at 110-130k depending on what market/planet.
I place mine at 450k and they do get sold, sorry but there you go, that is my point. Not everyone shops around, some people buy from the closet location. I buy your engines for 110k and fly them to Alioth 13 or somewhere and sell them for 480k lol........ at some point more people might cotton on to it.
I have sold plenty of l atmos engines around the districts at max price, seriously, go to market 6 (or another busy market) buy all the cheap stuff and fly it elsewhere. Then come back to me......
I love posting stuff like this, every now and then I get someone who stops arguing enough to actually understand what I am saying, then they message me a few days later telling me it is a game changer. -
3 minutes ago, Emptiness said:
Uh, no? Did you forget about this thread I created? You even posted in it.
Bot prices have never changed, and by never changing them, NQ is forcing T1 ore prices (and the prices of everything else) to rise to a certain level.
My point is that the profit you outline in that thread, could have been four times more, if you had used that ore and sold products to players. As I said, pretty hopefully buy bots will be gone form the game soon, and we can have a proper player built eco..... rather than the spammy bullshit which is throwing ore down the drain.
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3 minutes ago, Emptiness said:
That is confusing cause and effect. Ore prices are so high BECAUSE of the bot prices slowly driving ore prices up, not the other way around.
Nothing to do with ore prices. The bot BUY price is literally designed to be very low, just above basic ore cost price. So if you sell to bots, you are making only slightly more money than selling the ore. Instead, if you choose to sell to players, and sell a product with no player competition, you can list it for just under bot SELL price, which is around a 400% markup. So basically you are making four times the money from the same ore.........
Hoping this penny might drop in a minute. -
45 minutes ago, Zekarsis said:
I think what I'm trying to ask is does the trading console share posts across the whole game or only in that region. If it's across the whole game then it defeats the purpose of havinn traders buy at low prices in one place and sell high in others. If the trade consoles are regionally based then player would not be able to see posts from another planet thus forcing players to move the merchandise to a profitable location. This is how the real world works and that is what I'm trying to find out.
It is purely market location specific, all markets are separate and people shop at and will buy from different market regardless of price differences. A LOT of player dont realise this, you can make money without mining literally buying cheap stuff and moving it to places noone else is selling it. Making huge markups........ most underused tactic in the game, mainly because those that do it dont talk about it, they just chuckle at all the saps mining and selling stuff cheap.
When it works, it works
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1 minute ago, Emptiness said:
The better solution is to make bot orders be what I had originally thought they were, a last resort, and make them scale based on a moving average of player orders.
They are currently the 'last resort' they are literally only slightly (very slightly) better than just selling your ore for market price. But people still use them, because people are lazy, whereas I make as much money, selling 1/4 of the ore.
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16 hours ago, Anomaly said:
This cant be emphasized enough. A community will put up will all kinds of troubles and delays if they like the devs. The community managers here seem nice enough but what we have gotten from the devs themselves has ranged from indifferent to nasty. Should DU fail, I will keep a wary eye out for any further projects from these people.
TBH, I have seen far more 'nasty' from you than anything NQ have posted but you probably dont hold yourself to the same account........
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17 minutes ago, Emptiness said:
Bot orders are guaranteed instant sales, and create money from nothing. Selling to players can be risky, and redistributes wealth.
I am not arguing for or against either, but bot orders are very appealing. Steel voxels, anyone?
Yeah but the difference is that you are selling your ore at just above cost, whilst I am selling my elements to players at just below bot SELL price, which is XXX% higher margin.
So I can sell at L Atmos for 450k, when the bots buy them for 115k.
Yes it takes some time but it is ZERO risk to sell elements (I have sold pretty much every type of item), you just need to spread your wares. This is my point though, NQ should just remove your easy option and inform you of the other option - which is to actually trade with players. -
NQ Staff are like London buses, wait around for age for one and then two come along........
Not complaining though, welcome to the jungle. They are not a bad lot, several do have signs of neck beards though.
I have a question - "What is your favourite gaming experience and why?"
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30 minutes ago, XKentX said:
Many people say that bot orders are bad/break economy etc.
It takes VERY little dev effort to just change the numbers so they buy-price goes down by a factor of 2 and makes it irrelevant.
NQ: Let's add emotes ! The ":-)" is not suitable for 2020 beta !
What the bots orders are doing for the eco, only NQ knows, but I do 100% agree they do not help gameplay, as too many people are pouring ores down low margin bot orders, when they could sell to players for big margins.
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20 hours ago, Nightranger said:
Thought I would write this up before I leave, If anything for NQ to take as feedback/criticism.
The game is nothing like it was advertised, or made out to be, Which ultimately after 3 months, still is nothing near it, as such I feel really really played by NQ here. Was promised a blank canvas instead, Hundreds of Industry parts were injected into the game, was promised a player made economy, Instead Bots were put out and 100k quanta daily given out....
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I still hope NQ deliver on what they promise, but If I don't return before the beta key runs out, I will heavily consider whether or not to subscribe to this game and give even more money to support this, My overall opinion, Is that NQ are trying to make a platform to sell on to other developers, rather than actually making a game for their customers, and this shows in the serious lack in attention to detail particularly around the UI/UX...Whilst i 100% respect your opinion here and will agree that these are issues I have heard from players that have left my own organisation. I would disagree completely about there not being a game here. It just seems it is a game that is not that easy to find gameplay paths and those paths only appeals to some people. Some people seems to have no issue finding a niche which suits them, some people find it easy not to have to mine, some people seem to struggle to find the time to do everything they want, whilst others struggle to find anything to do.
Why is this?
First up, people are different and enjoy different things, i am very lucky, I not only enjoy game like satisfactory but also the market trading / empire building side of game, so there is loads to do. I love open sandboxes and dont really want or need NPCs, but then a lot of my friends are different. I sincerely hope the game will cater for them in the future.
Secondly, a lot of the gameplay loops are currently either hard to discover or are outside the game, trading for example and prospecting, the game does make these things clear and to really engage in them you have to step outside the game. Hopefully this will change once the mission system in launched, whenever the might be. -
Confused, firstly I didnt think there were fixed warp point, only a fixed distance you arrive from the planet. So this is only a problem is you fly direct lanes. Also, if you turn off your engines during warp, dont you arrive pretty much standing still?
Easy solution though, would be to turn off collisions for a short period of time, like they do when you start warping (you can travel through objects when you start a warp)
Personally I would like to see the distance you arrive at to be a bit more random anyway, and often finish outside the safe zone, this would make the game so much more interesting. And by the time players are visiting the outer planets, they should be prepared for pvp. -
2 minutes ago, michaelk said:
Analytics have been industry standard in games for years now.
Even single player games are heavily invested in analytics -- beating a boss or clearing a level often sends an event; devs needs to know what percent of their players are making it past the first levels so they can make balance decisions based on objective data, not a select few twitch streamers or hardcore fanatics.
Analytics cut through the rampant speculative "I know so many people..." sort of statements by surfacing actual data. The hundred or so people you know aren't at all statistically relevant compared the whole of the beta test population...
NQ should already have a keen sense of how and when players are dropping off -- but they've made numerous mistakes that are typical for first-time devs with no experience in the field...so I honestly don't expect them to have reliable analytics despite the relative ease of implementation (if they are going to use Xsolla for subs, they could use many of the robust analytics providers out there).
Solid analytics are even more important in a subscription model -- especially when you are a new developer with very (very) limited game design experience -- seeing exactly how design changes impact the economy and player base is absolutely vital.
Of course, if NQ does have data like this...they'd never share it unless it makes them look good. As the OP points out, it seems like they lack even a basic analytics framework and have had to rely on streamers, reddit fanatics, and JC's sacred "intuition" to stay informed.
I agree, I do statistical data analysis and data segmentation as part of my job. I would be very surprised if NQ didnt have these stats, the fact they sent out the questionnaire suggest they should.
I wouldnt be surprised if my 'sample' audience isnt far from the truth though. -
1 hour ago, Avonthorn said:
These are good points....sigh....
it reminds me to stay "off" the forums. Despite all of the arguments on this and a number of other topics (mostly disparging NQ) recently in the forums, I have to remind myself it is only one side, our side of the discussion. The other side is not expressed in this medium and prolly will never be (e.g. NQ)
Since only side has a voice, and a strong one to be sure, the outcome is oddly self reinforcing as we talk about people leaving which encourages more people to feel disappointed and leave the game which, I believe, is the opposite effect we really want to have here.
Great reminder to play more in game, and leave the forums. I'll be first to take my advice, thanks.
NQ seems to be a lot more active in the forums and making their voice heard, which is a great thing.
Whilst i have no doubt that a lot of the concepts outlined in this thread have some basis. Many posters have a tendency to exaggerate the issues, too much speculation painted as fact. When they actually have no more idea than the rest of us, just a good grasp of the know facts, which are then spun.
My experience with players (I have have played with about 60 people so far in the game) is that around 30% of them have stuck with it and are still logging in, and around 20% of them will never come back. The ones that have stayed are the ones that have managed to find a career in the game that is currently viable and they enjoy (ship sellers, protectors, miners, manufacturers, traders) . Those that have left are watching the game for keys things to be added.
I am currently pretty cool with the game, it has enough to keep me interested but not enough to really keep me hooked (I need much more jeopardy in my gameplay, which I hope is coming soon). NQ havent actually deviated much from the game / path I fell in love with, so all good.
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12 hours ago, elizaroff said:
"When I asked in Hyperion discord for comment, they threatened me that disclosure of this violated EULA and I will get a ban."
It's strange for me to see that. I paid for 6 months subscription. Maybe I was in a hurry...
11 hours ago, elizaroff said:Aleksandr. Maybe It's better to discuss this in Reddit. I'm afraid to get banned here.
Wow, you are very easily lead arent you lol. Do you always take random stuff people say on the internet to be 100% fact? Want to watch that, will get you in trouble.
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14 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:
Sounds like one have to mine even more now, sure it might work for larger org with more combined time. but for the little guy not so much.
They also reference "the real world" a few times, well that place sucks for fun and games. Should we also add food and sleep requirements?
mindlessly reparing and mining is already a drain, hell most of my ships a smoking because i do not have the resources or time to put in the effort of reparing them.
Perhaps improve the repair gameplay first. for me i put something heavy on my mouse and go away, making the player leave is the first step in losing a player.
The whole 'you have to mine to do anything' line is a complete myth I am afraid, peddled by people who havent worked out how to do anything else. You can make money / enjoy the game in loads of other ways than mining. You can make tons of quanta just buying / selling and moving other people products from one market to another...... if you know how. I know LOADS of player who do not mine at all in DU and never will.
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3 minutes ago, electronbeam said:
I think this is a bad change, unless it's only limited to PVP damage. Sometimes you crash your ship, and more than 50% of the time it's not the fault of the pilot, but the game or network itself.
Not to mention if ore is finite, why would an engine just vanish into the ether? Matter cannot be created or destroyed, so, at least let us find a way to recycle the damn things.
Keep telling yourself that, played since earlier alpha and if I am honest, every crash was partially my fault.
Loving the changes, stuff is too easy to get, we have too many toys, we need some jeopardy -
Just now, Emptiness said:
Yeah, having had a month to think about it, the title is bad. Should be "Bot orders are keeping T1 ore prices artificially high" or something similar.
Checking edit access, it seems I can still change the title. Should I? And do you have a suggestion for the new one?
Nah, a bit of clickbait is ok lol.
Thinking it is a big issue though, because the whole gameplay loop falls outside the community and is stopping the player made market from flourishing. I make all my money from selling to players, and I cant believe how little competition there is.
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23 minutes ago, Emptiness said:
If the bot order prices scaled off a weekly average of player prices, it wouldn't be a problem. But the bot order prices have stayed the same since beta launch and been refreshed quite a few times. I don't know why NQ is allowing this to continue, or if they even care.
Steel honeycombs are directly responsible for the insane hematite prices.
Yeah, totally agree, the REALLY stupid thing is, if those people actually made a range of goods and put them on the market, they would be selling at around 400% the margins and the stuff wouldnt be disappearing from the economy. Hoping it will be fixed soon. Not sure the ore crisis is as bad as you say though. The vast majority of Alioth is unmined........
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57 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:
I noticed, that "Organizations" section was moved much deeper into pits.
This section already experienced almost hopeless depression, with absolute majority of orgs abandoning any pretense to post updates/pr content here, save for some rare and totaly technical bumps. So, question is, do we need to somehow salvage this section by adding incenetives to be more active, or to hell with it, let it be survival of fittest medium of communication?
Good shout, totally agree that organisation promotion is a vital part of the fourm, I would like to see categorisation. This not only makes it easier to find orgs that fit, but also showcases the wide range of roles available to players
Orgs are not only about recruitment, they are also about services, showcase those too!
My perspective
in General Discussions
Posted
i dont really care about talent points, but I really care about my quanta, so as long as I keep that, then i dont really care....... see the problem here.