Novean-32184

Woudl be laughed out of court for a handful of people joining. No lawyer would burn their fingers on this as there is no money to be made here, it's a certified loss. Nvidia/GFN is not the culprit here and NQ has nothing of value to go for.

I get the frustration and anger at some of the things NQ is bringing in with Demeter , I really do and share a lot of it although none of it came as a surprise to me as it just reinforces what a good many here have predicted, raised, warned about for many years now. And yes, it seems NQ simply refuses to listen and consider there may be merit in these voices. That said however, there is much to say in favour of the changes, the biggest issue (as I see it) is the way NQ is once again going about shoving their idea down everyone's throats while ignoring the many reasonable arguments calling for refinement and change _before_ the changes are put into the game with an attitude of "you just do not understand". This is in many ways a replay of 0.23 and if NQ follow through as they seem to be doing, the results will be very much the same. From that though, I really do not see the point in frustrating the game or creating chaos which wil only hinder the few other players left in the game. You could go digging tunnels all day sure, but what does that accomplish really? NQ is in trouble; they are up against the wall and really have no choice at this point I fear. Frustrating that will only make it worse. I get that many of us are really not very happy with the glaring disconnect between NQ and the community which has become even more clear after the last VLOG and the post the new NQ CEO made (for me at least). Point is that you can be vocal about it and you can use that to try and get the attention of NQ but if that does not yield results, sabotaging the game will not do anything but (again) make it worse. As much as it may not be what you want to do, if all else fails, the only thing you can really do is walk away and leave DU behind you. Many have already done so and many more will do so if NQ does not come around, I'm sure. But it is all you have. The proposed actions here really borders on getting your account banned/blocked so ask yourself what's better, walk away with a chance to come back if NQ even manages to turn this around or burn that bridge and blow stuff up.

DISCLAIMER: below are my thoughts, I am not telling NQ what to do or demanding anything, but I do think it makes sense and would benefit the game as a whole if it were adopted 8< ---- Following the latest VLOG we now know NQ intends/plans to allow one free tile outside fo Sanctuary at least. I think that is a good idea in principle and would take away a lot of potential pain points in the tax system but there needs to be some limitations to that idea: The free claim requires a special TU much like the Sanctuary TU, it can't be crafted, only bought. One of these TU is given as a reward following a tutorial where the importance of choosing location wisely is enforced. By making the tutorial available only after some prereqs are met, you can prevent players from making the wrong decision in choosing their location and it will mean they can only acquire the TU after having been in the game for a bit. You can't pick up the TU again and move it, like the Sanctuary TU. If you pick it up, it either converts to a normal TU You can only claim one free tile per planet/moon with a max of these TU being active at once (3 or 4) Placing a second TU on the same planet or exceeding te quota, you can opt to place it as a "normal" TU and pay taxes. This would convert the TU into a normal one. This special TU does not allow rights to be set for orgs. This would prevent large orgs having access to massive numbers of tiles for free through their members. These conditions would remove quite a few loopholes and should really not be very hard to implement. They are vital to these free tiles not getting abused though and so must be in place at the same time these free tiles are implemented. This could be easily achieved if the idea of a special "free claim" TU would be adopted as you could design these so that they only allow player names to be added as actors While this wil be controversial I know, beyond the initial one you'd get following a tutorial, I could see these TUs be for sale in the store for RL $$. In game it would be a sellable item so like DAC it could be used to convert RL $$ to quanta. It would really be nice to hear what @NQ-Deckard has to say on this..

I do not think NQ should resign, they should start actually listening to their comunity where there is a lot of people who know what they are talking about, understand the painpoints and want to help still.. It's not too late I'm sure but the longer NQ keeps hidingin their own reality bubble, only hearing some rumpling from the outside whil enever really listening or understanding what is said. They always downplay their community input and refuse to actually engage in discussion. All they do is complain and warn if what hey get is not what they what to hear. Maybe that consistent stream of voices means that you are not going in the right direction and those looking on with some distance see it happen. When I read the one post from the new CEO, I honestly burst out in very loud laughter because of the total disconnect that exposed.. And I know I was not alone.

The majority of games these days run on of fthe shelf engines. Unigine it quite capable but atthe sam etime NQ does run on a very old version of the engine Actually it is quite frequently used for high performance emulations and simulations. But NQ really hardly uses Unigine anyway, pretty much just for the high proecision coordinate system it offers. Du is really a hotch potch of several GFX engines and frameworks. That in itself may wel be much more the issue here. This is quite possible much closer to the why, the RTX drivers are notthe issue, it's the way DU addresses them/uses them (or not uses them) Frankly, I feel the mention of the 3080 drivers here is just an excuse/smokescreen. I can confirm the game runs just fine on a 3080.. and a 3090 actually. So it may well be the issue which broke Shadow PC is now breaking GFN.. Not that that was not predicted to happen sooner or later. Next up NQ will announce that fixing GFN is "not really a priority right now".. If i were to make a guess.. it is a memory allocation issue with the DU code for the shaders that is exposed/triggered on a VM.

Not really, the problem is NQ pretending they have a game in Beta development stage while it is still very much Alpha. "arbitrary changes of the corresponding rules" is pretty much part of how Alpha game development works where the devs will and can change things as they see fit for any number of reasons.

The sanctuary moon made sense really, i actually thouhgt hat was a smart solution for some potential issues down the line. That NQ then pretty much declared the main area for the game a complete safe zone was not so great

I'd agree it is both very odd ot seemingly woudl only affect DU and thsi issue has not come up with 3080 users. Also, the geForce drivers have been "unified" for some time now so that is not a new development. I will visit a friend who runs a 3080 this weekend and install DU there to see what happens.. My expectation is it will run just fine.

They are not marketing labels actually. They are industry standard milstones in (software0 development. NQ is actually the party who is using the "beta" label for marketing purposes while their proiduct is still very much in alpha by the generally accepted definition of the term. NQ just tagged the label onto a next patch, regardless of what state the overall development is/was in at the time. Alpha Software Definition (techterms.com) While the above is just one site describing the terms, they do describe it as it is generally accepted and used. here is what Wikipedia has to say.. Software release life cycle - Wikipedia

Nope, I am just voicing my opinion on yours

I do blame them, not because of some form of entitlement as I backed the project but because I believe they are losing out on a massive opportunity in building a game with so much potential and by doing so denying me the opportunity to play it. I do not care about the money I spent, I considered that gone the moment I paid as I always do when I back or buy games in general. I was so looking forward to them making this game a reality and bringing the different attitude and openness they said they would during Kickstarter and upto the moment they opened up pre-alpha. I guess I'm just massively dissapointed NQ never was able to either deliver on the promise or take ownership of that and adjust their vision to what was possible. Now it's all about saving money to stay alive and that is never a good basis to design a game. As the saying goes; A delayed game may get good, a rushed game never will. And NQ is and has been rushing form patch to patch trying to make things work, only to find they are amassing technical debt as they go.

Except, GFN does not use 3080s for anything but their new(soon to come) top tier sub so how is this relevant and how does this affect those with a 3080? Are you saying these people can't play DU locally either? That is news to me. I have access to a 3080 and 3090 system so I guess I will go and verify this.

It woudl be very odd if that were the case but a good question I guess..

There will not be a complete wipe "worst caase" they will wipe the world and hand you back yor constructs as blueprints and accrued talent points to the pool. A full, clean wipe which sees everyone start again from scratch will not happen. That certainly was of fthe table the moment they started charging money through subs

NQ made a commitment to the Alioth/Madis/Thadees safeezone being a permanent fixture shortly after beta started, they announced it during several interviews with streamers and in the vlogs at the time. It was a choice based on input form some groups who pretty much decided to try and change the way NQ pitched the game initially, to suit their own needs and pressed hard on it. NQ caved. More recently NQ wanted to start making changes to orgs which would deal with wildgrowth and massive abuse of loopholes where orgs could gain acceess to massive amounts of cores and build big.. and high.. some orgs publically threatened to pull out if NQ did this and NQ caved again.. the orgs left anyway it seems. Now, with unlimited resources there is no need to leave the safezone for anyone who does not _really_ want to. And the same big orgs can now, probably for free, pick and choose the tiles with th best resources and claim them, never to worry about resources again.. Way to go NQ.. way to go..

The problem seems to be that NQ does not (want to) see the opportunities.. They have asteroids, sure.. They could have had their version of data and relic sites, locations where players can find metarial and tools to be able to create things like machines that can analyse components and create .. blueprints. Blueprints which can then be eiher used (in indusry) or sold.. Very simple concept, not hard to implement provided your core game is designed and set up to accommodate it and it drives engagement with game on many levels without the need to introduce NPCs. You can build the existence of these sites into the lore. Thes thinsg are not hard to conceive, if you have the cerative mind to do so, and not hard to do as they are passive sites, pretty much like asteroids are. NQ has a big shiny example they look up to and clearly take cues from, yet they seem to lack even the most basic understanding of what makes their example tick, which is actually not the top level stuff, it is the more intricate and "under the surface" mechanics that do. I'm currently involved with another MMO which is in early stages and their solution is you buy or loot something, pay some money and assign some energy to research these items which in the process are lost but the result is.. a blueprint which can then be used on a crafting station to build that item as much as you like. Simple but very effective. Also, NQ just loves to overthink and over complicate things, they did with industry and frankly they are now doing it with mining. They are a bunch of nerds who seem incapable of realizing that their playerbase to alarge extent are not and just want o have fun. Problem is what NQ thinks is fun is really nerd stuff fun and not all that exciting for the main potential player audience they are in need of attracting. Mini games are fine, but their shiny example just uses simple stuff like a minesweeper variant with some fun tricks and a good selection of options to make the game eeasier as you gain experience.. As you said, there is MMO's where the devs have solved all these problems many, many years ago, wel lbefore NQ even existed. Why does NQ think they must go and reinvent the wheel time and time again.

Yes and no, the fact that upkeep woudl become a thing has always been on the table and seeing how NQ takes many cues from EVE an generally follows the same "(lack of) actions has/have conseqences" it shoudl be understood. As with so any things relating to DU and NQ's plans, their inability to be clear, which often seems to be fueled by a lack of confidence in their community and the fear of being "misunderstood", has time and time again actually resulted in the exact thing they tried to prevent, uncertainty, confusion and wild speculation. And as of the lateest VLOG, this attitude and behaviour remains in place, very firmly.

No it would not as it is not a GIVEN this may happen as much as it is not guranteed it won't. Making such disclaimers wil generally get overlooked anyway.. Most poeple do not even read terms and conditions or even disclaimers like this. The big issue here is that NQ in my view advertised the game to be in a state it is not at the time they opened it up last year. Their pretence this is a beta game is very obviously not justified to say the least. From that I feel that for hte state the game is actually in, which is still early alpha really, things like wipes, in any form, are to be expected. And even then, over the time you hav subbed there have been many clear signals by NQ that a wipe is never off the table, why did you extend your sub knowing that? And in case you say you did not know, then honestly that is on you as the discussion here and the content about this in the NQ blogs and announcments has been pretty cleear.

Trust me, some of us have noticed this to be a repeating pattern .. for about 4 years now

I have it on good authority that one of the straws that broke the camel's back was that JC actually had the brilliant idea to hire actual designers as "players" and let them build cities in game. For me, the big problem with JC has always been he only saw the end goal, he never considered or even thought about the way to get there and only found it's a tad more complex than he though once it was too late. JC was famous for basicaly ignoring or brushing aside anything that counteerd his "vision" with the argument that it was just not understood. It seemsed he never once considered all these valid arguments and discussions might have merit and be actually beneficial for him and the progress of the game if he would not just "hear us" but would actually listen. Unfortunately, from the last VLOG it would seem that mindset is still very much alive in NQ. They hear what we are saying but fail to listen and thus it is actually them who do not understand or get what is being said. The many instances in the VLOG where what NQ states they believe we are saying or what we are suggesting show the disconnect between what they hear and what we are telling them is quite massive. And IMO a big reason for that is that NQ _still_ refuses to actually engage with us in any meeaningful way.

No one is talking about or expecting NQ to "erase everything", That would be a bad idea. A (partial) wipe as I described above is IMO unavoidable at some point before "release" and anyone who played prior to that wil have the advantage of being able to restart and rebuild quickly and with a well balanced talent set which can also be respecced to suit the then current state of the game. Arguing that NQ started asking money for access while they full well know there may be a need to at least partially wipe one or more times over the following few years is fair enough. Arguing that fact AFTER you started paying for a sub while the information of the possibility of that potential event is known to exist however is not.

You say it was stated several times, so where? please provide links to two of these times where NQ said there wil be no more wipes as a statement of fact. NQ has said they have no intention of doing a wipe but will if the situation calls for it. The have never said "There will be no more wipes." NQ-Entropy on a video blog said "We prefer to not wipe. But it can happen that something causes damage in game to the extent it is not avoidable to do at least a partial wipe" As I have said previously, I can see the point of not doing a full wipe anymore as in everyone starts over with nothing and gets to keep nothing. Worst case (and IMO unavoidable at some point prior to release), NQ will wipe the entire world, will provide blueprints for your constructs in your backpack and will return your accrued talent points to the pool. From the discussion around the mining talent points on the latest VLOG it's obvious NQ really does not understand why some are asking for a full respec. Their arguments against it are really papethin and frankly irrelevant. The changes in mining do not _just_ impact mining TP. A player may well want to keep the existing mining talents as mining on asteroids still uses the old mechanic, yet they may want to move talent point sfrom other talents to apply to the new ones. NQ seem to not get that. NQ also does not get the argument around wipes in the community and what's worse, they refuse to make a choice themselves either way. As long as they don't, the discussion will continue. Yes, they will always see some unhappy but at the same time by being indecisive, they cause both sides to remain unhappy. And that they seem to not want to get and their lack of ownership in this matter si not helping, especially since I am pretty sure they full well realie that a wipe as I described above is unavoidable.

Losing what you have if you do not pay your way has always beenin the books for DU. I still do not understand the argument here. You can say that he way NQ is implementing this is not great sure, but still.. you do not pay upkeep in whatever way it is implemented, you lose your stuff. That is because this is a sandbox MMO where the players are expected to create the content using the systems NQ provides. Now, argue that those systems are not all that great or varied to say the least and we do not disagree.

Price should have been $10-$15 from the start Especially at $10 it would not have made much, if any, of a difference as far as sub numbers and it would have brought in considerably more money, still far from enough but much more. I fear it's too late now if NQ does nothing but raise the price of subs though but we wil see. I'm currently not playing, logging in to PTS on occasion and may bring all my characters and their stuff to Sanctuary if there is no free tiles on Alioth though Is DU worth $10/month? Currently I'd say no, whether it will be (it might) depends on what NQ does to bring the game around.

I'd agree. in the first Q&A NQ pretty much said the existing scans remain valid, in the latest one they clearly said otherwise.. just removing all scans really woudl be the best route here, if only to prevent some with lots of cash to just go and claim any and all tiles they have scans for and preserve unlimited resources that way While I would not disagree there, at the time you subbed, the fact that NQ never ever said "no more wipes" was quite clear. It's true some in the community did, do and will try to say otherwise, but he facts are pretty straightforward here. If anyone who says anything different is asked to provide a link to a statement by NQ, they will not be able to produce it as it does not exist.