Catarix
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Posts posted by Catarix
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15 minutes ago, Yoarii said:
PvP:ers have the same access to planets that builders do, and you now have the space core with a large amount of T5 ore as well as the plasma. I don't see builders having more than PvPers.
if I used simple logic I would say: builders can build on core too but PvPer can't pewpew on planets.
but I'm not going to troll people here.
I really want this game to develop. I think competition is the only thing that can involve many people to the game.
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I think there are no community anymore. a few people arguing about PvP/building on main forum of MMO game... sad...
as I said in other thread my discord community position is 'we already have said what we want, we tired of repeating'
so I'm sitting on huge space base and I have resources to build 100 L exotic ships. but there is no one to play with...
- Rokkur and blazemonger
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8 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:
So let's summarize.
DU is a building game with PvP. And the PvP part is bad, like really bad and consequentially not many people are doing it.
And the solution is to force the builder part of the game to join the PvP regardless of if they want to or not? Sounds like a great idea! For killing a game that is already dying that is.
Hint. Those that want to play the PvP part, are already doing so. And one would think the obvious way to increase PvP participation without chasing away players, would be to improve the PvP mechanics?
And here is some shocking news. Not all games has to be all about the pewpew. Are builders running around screaming "you must build. Or else!!". No they are not because that would be silly. So why is it that some of PvP players are doing exactly that..?
it is not about forcing builders to PvP. It is about equality.
builders have all planets and almost all resources. there is simply no reason to PvP.
I just ask to give us (PvPer) reason and resources. for example couple of planets with unique resources will be enough. or PvP server. or weapon production only in PvP space.
something
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4 minutes ago, Rokkur said:
Catarix, I respectfully disagree, I think splitting the population between two servers would be Death for Dual Universe. I saw another company try to do this and the game died within 6 months. The game "Xsyon" actually had many of the same development problems/patterns of Dual Universe. Seeing so many development Red Flags is very concerning for me.
current situation is terrible and getting worse every week. I am seeing in real time as people stop taking about the game and losing interest to it. Not to mention that no one is playing DU now (I am talking about our corporations and community discord server)
my idea is not to split the population but prove that this game need change of course. because DU now really is early alfa I think devs can experimenting.
In our community a main idea about communication with NQ is following 'we already have said what we want, we tired of repeating'
I respect your positive feedback here and other posts because generally this community behave itself like 'DU euthanization team'
they attack all ideas and feedbacks with words like 'you don't understand/it is not going to happen/everything is ok/etc/etc'
Ignoring of problems is not positive way of thinking.
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44 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
DU is not a PVP game
None of the games in that list are sandbox MMO games
All those games are much smaller in scope/scale and less complex in what they aim to achieve
As far as I know none use voxel technoclogy the way DU does
Your top 10 accounts for less than 2 percent of the number of players on Steam ..
You are missing the point, even when I thank you for proving it
You said PvP is not popular genre. you use RUST as example. I showed that you are wrong. If DU will be as 'dead' as RUST it will be huge success.
Anyway. my solution (PvP server) is not against your playstyle. Why do you bother if we (PvPer) find money and receive our server to play (at least to check)?you still can play as you want on current server.
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24 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
And many actually good games have pretty much died for that very reason, RUST being a good example.
Are you kidding?
PvP games are most played games.
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56 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
DU is a game that has open world combat PVP, NQ has made more than reasonable compromises to allow those who do not want to encounter combat PVP.
If you want a game which is entirely combat PVP free, DU is not it and you should choose another game to play.
I clearly indicated that I want more PvP. I think total PvP server will be more successful and I force devs to check it.
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after seeing fights between non PvPer and PvP about vision of this game future I can offer this step. It is simple A/B testing.
I think it can solve all our problems. let's see.
1st server - current one.
1. simply follows current game rules with no changes.
2. no wipe at all
2nd server - a new one
1. full PvP everywhere except base planet - small safe zone around Sanctuary
2. Fresh start
3. Atmosphere fights according space rules
4. 3 months test
I understand that this solution required money so a also offer to open crowdfunding to cover that 3 months test
in conclusion this solution helps us to stop out fights. peaceful people can build houses on old server and we can go to a new one and fight.
PS I personally can guarantee that I will buy 20 3-months subscriptions to this server for my Eve friends
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18 hours ago, CousinSal said:
Huge safe zones where you can't wage war. Pvp pushed to the edges for a a few niche plasma 99% of the player base doesn't care about. No player markets, and now NQ making showrooms and exchange because captains customs and all the countless others weren't good enough? This game has 0 npcs or real pve content and was marketed as player driven, yet every patch they restrict what a player can do in the universe. I don't see this game lasting 6 months past "release".
finally some sane thoughts. I totally agree.
I offered in another thread
1. reduce safe zone only to zone around Alioth, moons and 2 initial planets and interplanetary space around them.
2. remove all save zone around other planets
3. turn on planetary battle according space rules (Construct vs construct)
4. Add powerful shields and base weapons to protect planet and orbit bases
5. make T3-T5 production possible only in PvP zone. (for example in safe zone all strong power sources are blocked by some suppressor, including weapon and T3+ production)
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1 hour ago, Zarcata said:
For what reason should players invest time in the game now? I don't currently spend time in the game either, but in other games, it's fun. I will only invest time in DualUniverse again (maybe) after the wipe and release.
people don't invest in games... people play games. if there are no people it means the game is not interesting
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1 hour ago, Sabretooth said:
oh man.... Ive read so many me, me, me, me posts from pvp lovers, its becoming embarassing to me.
etc...
Oh man, I feel your anger. I didn't want to disappoint you or anyone. The current gamestate is result of wrong decisions, not a 'waiting wipe' or something. People don't play because there is nothing to do. It is impossible to create an MMO with core mechanics like building. 100 or 1000 builders are not enough. So without competition, this game will die. I don't want it to die.
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3 minutes ago, Cergorach said:
They might not want to bring anyone back with these changes, but keep those that show up...
just think about two words... Summer DACs...
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I will add my 5 cents. sorry I will be that terrible guy who criticize.
you main goal now to return number of players to more or less appropriate range. so you need to return players and hold them with some fun/new features/game mechanics changes. you need this because investors should see at least a flat number of clients but now they see huge loss. secondly you need to test game. you can't test without people.
so let's check point by point
1. THE ALIOTH EXCHANGE won't bring anyone back. small useless change
2. CONTINUED GRAPHICAL UPGRADES same. won't bring anyone back
3. SUMMER DACs lets discuss at the end
4. NOVEAN OVERVIEW won't bring anyone back. small useless change
5. LUA API very bad investment. won't bring anyone back. it is not important for us. for you it is huge work that takes a lot of time.
6. TALENT POINT RESET it's ok. I think it's easy task. nothing important
so to the point 3 Summer DACs. I think you idea to involve new players. But you should not just involve but also hold them. In the current situation you can't hold them because there is nothing to do in the game. they come, burn you money via server time and leave.
in conclusion this is a bad update that will do worse due to you spent developers time for it with no profit.
I think you should do some gameplay changes before gifting DACs.
PS Devs Game is terrible now but I love the idea and want you to succeed. Add some collection version or something useless to buy for that players who want to support you more than 1-2 subscription/month.
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26 minutes ago, Zarcata said:
How do you arrive at 70%, or was the figure thrown into the room at random?
The 1,000 farmers would certainly be too few, but the 200 PvPers would also be too few.I think you understand that current situation of the game is terrible. My idea to give a feedback from MMO player with 20 years of experience with many many friends what we can do to increase player base. I love an idea of this game and I want it to develop. I respect other opinion and if Devs chose a way to peaceful building simulator it will be ok. but I think in this case this game will be nonprofitable.
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2 minutes ago, blundertwink said:
You're basically saying that PvP is already fun enough it just needs to be more available. I don't really agree with that. I think combat is far too niche to satisfy the typical PvP-oriented gamer, regardless of how common or restrictive it is.
Even if NQ wanted to make this sort of "simple" change, they probably couldn't without jeopardizing an infrastructure that's already vastly unstable and doing major refactors to the codebase...I mean they couldn't even roll out space TW and had to relegate that to alien cores. It isn't as simple as them "turning on planetary combat" -- with how this game has been engineered, that could mean a lot of refactors.Your suggest is basically to roll out TW everywhere and make atmo combat work...they couldn't even roll out space TW and had to do alien cores, so I think the challenges here are immense for NQ. I don't think they can support this vision of combat technically, at least not right now.
It might seem these changes would be low in scope, but unfortunately I don't think that's the case.
I agree with you that the changes I offered can be not so easy to implement. I just wanted to say that Devs should focus on what easy to do to improve playability. for example they plan AvA PvP that will be much more difficult because it should be non target PvP. secondly they want to rework lua engine. that changes don't increase players base. I want changes that increase player base. I was flying today all day from my base to Alioth market 6 and I've seen 1 player for all day! on main market in single server MMO!!!
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6 hours ago, blundertwink said:
And that's the core of the problem...NQ's original "idea" for DU was way too ambitious for the resources they had.
DU needed a niche...but instead it promised to be a great place for builders, PvP'ers, politicians, pilots, traders, industrialists...when you reach so wide, sometimes your arms break.
I'm not saying DU is better off without PvP...but as a small studio, they needed to pick a niche and stick with it because they never had the means to create both a great building sandbox experience and an engaging, robust PvP layer and make the two ideas gel.
NQ may not be "indie" with over $20 million in investment, but far more simplified MMOs are built with over 10 times the budget...they needed to focus on one niche/player group instead of obsessing over this fantastical metaverse ideal where "everyone can find something to do".
The feature depth required to really bring balance and satisfaction to both player groups was beyond NQ's reach, especially considering that the first years were led by someone with zero experience who didn't understand the difficulties they'd face. That set the stage long ago; NQ today can only change the props and the players, because there's no time to rewrite the script.
I personally think it is possible to satisfy both builders and PvPer. DU has all required mechanics now. I offer:
1. reduce safe zone only to zone around Alioth, moons and 2 initial planets and interplanetary space around them.
2. remove all save zone around other planets
3. turn on planetary battle according space rules (Construct vs construct)
4. Add powerful shields and base weapons to protect planet and orbit bases
5. make T3-T5 production possible only in PvP zone. (for example in safe zone all strong power sources are blocked by some suppressor, including weapon and T3+ production)
in this case builders can build everything they want in safe zone but PvPer should build in PvP space and protect it.
everyone are happy
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3 hours ago, Zarcata said:
Of course, that's how many games have been structured so far...so it's time for something new. You don't have to include PvP in any game just to make the game "work".
You don't have to give rewards or more valuable resources/ore to PvP players who are really interested in PvP just to get them interested in PvP. (So that would not be an interest in PvP, but in the rewards).
There can of course be a game without destruction, as well as without PvP. Whether that then pleases many or enough players to keep the game alive financially is another issue.I bought this game because it has slogan THE SPACE MMO ENTIRELY BUILT AND DRIVEN BY PLAYERS. So I expected to have full freedom. It is ok if devs completely delete weapons from the game. I will understand this position and leave. but now we have mechanics in "free" world that we can't use. 70% of technology and skills about war. I don't think devs have spent 6 years for creating subscription based building simulator for 1000 players.
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7 minutes ago, kulkija said:
In EVE there is no planetary warfare or AVA. So why it should be in DU
in EvE you can fight everywhere. but I don't think we need AVA it will be technically very complicated task. as I said before all resources and production lines above T2 should be able to be contested. If planet is safe zone so T3-5 production should be only in PvP space as well as T3-5 ores.
BTW it can be explained by presence of energy emitter that suppress all high energy outputs: weapons, military engines and T3+ production lines
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On 6/11/2022 at 1:01 PM, Zarcata said:
It would be very interesting to know how many of the previous players who tried DualUniverse because they were interested in the game really focused on which aspect of the game.
Is it the builders, Lua scripters, industrialists, miners, or the PvP players? Or even kind of a hybrid player who likes to mine ore and do industry or mine ore and do PvP. So what has been the main content of the players so far?
I often read that PvP players only want to shoot around and everything else is just a means to an end. But that is the case with any content. The PvP player must also collect quanta or ores to build or buy ships with which you have a chance to win in PvP at all. An industrialist has to do the same to build industrial plants and schematics. Even the one who builds ships and only sells them has to get his voxel stones and elements from somewhere. So in the end, many contents are connected, you can't just pick a small one. (This is only possible after investing a lot of time in the game).From there, I think you don't need more PvP areas, because the PvP area is huge, maybe even too big to really meet. (I now assume that the outer planets and moons will eventually lose their safezone).
What PvP needs are players who are really interested in PvP, not players who need to be forced into PvP.Accordingly, PvP should be made more interesting so that you can attract PvP players into the game and keep them permanently. (without driving PvE players out of the game).
In other games I liked to be a PvP player (WoW, Gw2, Archeage) but here in DualUniverse I prefer to be a builder, industrialist or an explorer.
On the topic itself, it would be fatal to release everything for destruction now when the developers aren't even sure what they really want to take away from players in the end and what should be protected. You should , if you really want to test PvP, make sure that you do not leave the time expenditure so brutally high - who wants to fly into a battle to attack or protect an alien core, please, if you first have to fly 1-3-5 hours AFK through space?PvP has nothing about total destruction. PvP is about changing priorities. look at EVE. Did everyone leave it because total PvP?
You can't build MMO game around peaceful building. I can play Blender in this case.
PvP has the following reasons
technical
1. resources loss through PvP
2. competition for resources spots
gameplay
1. risk and reward in game
2. competition and interest
to balance it we can have powerful base shields and weapons.
there should be reason to be build in PvP space or planet - valuable resources or advantage for production.
now I can't gather high tier ore because some guy took this spot 3 years ago and he should do nothing to protect it.
in every game one should do something to protect his position. in wow you should start from scratch every big addon. in EvE you should protect your stuff.
but in DU one can just bought all resource spots and hold it for 3 years without any problems.
how in this case devs plan to invite thousands new players?
PS I think there are enough space for both builders and PvPers. but I think all resources and production lines higher than T2 should be in contested space. Builders can build beautiful cities in safe zones and PvPer (+PvP industries builders) can build highly protected bases in PvP space. there will be goods exchange and both parties will complement each other
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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:
The game has barely enough players to hold Alien cores and a handful try to fight..
You want to ensure this game is dead before it really starts? Then this would certainly have a good chance of achieving that. There is plenty of space for those who want to engage in combat to do so. DU is not a "PVP above all else game", in fact quite the opposite.
If what you suggest would happen it would probably drive away the vast majority of remaining players as a handful of pewpew trigger happy ones will go around destroying whatever they find in their way without reason or recourse.
It's just amazing to me how some will keep trying to force their choice of gameplay, regardless of their choice being perfectly fine, on everyone else.
vast majority of remaining players? all my corp is out (20 ppl) in our ally corp everyone is out. no one is playing. Devs know it, I know it (coz I'm business analytic). It is ok if clients population is flat during developing of the Product, but it shouldn't decrease. It should really be small natural growth. Devs should change something in very very radical way. This game require a lot of new players otherwise there will be nothing to launch.
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no one is playing. game is stagnating. wipe is ahead. the is nothing to lose for now. lets try more PvP everywhere (except Haven and Sanctuary). lets try planetary PvP according space rules. lets try in now because after release it will be impossible to do global changes.
if this game is THE SPACE MMO ENTIRELY BUILT AND DRIVEN BY PLAYERS why I can't control my guns everywhere where I want to? if it's peaceful minecraft in space why here are weapon?
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I think this game should provide more PvP using the same mechanics. just turn on planetary PvP according space rules. because now no PvP-> no elements loss -> no economics -> no competition -> no interest in game.
- Belorion, CousinSal and MopnexAndreyno
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I want to explain my thoughts. I hope the devs read this.
I have some experience in business. I have launched more then 10 different products(all IT connected).
I know what is Client Retention, Life time etc.
a core idea for this game is hardcore, PvP based, full loot game. everything should follow this Product idea.
now I see that devs is losing focus. if someone afraid of dying and losing loot one should play WOW instead.
core audience should be motivated and very active. I personally can invite many people and I also can buy a few accounts for different roles.
but now DU is really boring. I am going to learn mechanics for a month and leave (if there will be not any changes)
Devs you have seen a google trends. it is getting worse every months after peak in 2020. there are no new youtube videos for last year. you are doing something wrong with the game. the direction is wrong. I think making PvP game a safe nice spot is very very bad idea.
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17 hours ago, Taelessael said:
Amusing as the chaos would be, that would probably drive more people away right now than it would bring in.
If you want to get some proper pvp, your best bet would probably be to try and take one of the space-resource nodes (you have a list of them and their coordinates in the system map).
game is dying as I see. without a big change it definitely will be closed. I as a new player i can say that there is no any danger anywhere except couple high-end places. i can build full T4 economy without a single battle in PvP game. it is absurd. it is amasing game and i want it to develop not stagnate
New server - way to reconcile PvP and no-PvP players
in General Discussions
Posted
maybe. I bought DU exactly because of 'Player driven game' slogan. It expected to have the same freedom as 'you know what game'
so I wish this game my best and I will check it next year.