Lethys
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Posts posted by Lethys
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I hate you
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fair enough
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Interesting opinions so far.
So let's start by stating what we know and don't know:
1) Fairness is important in DU. There will be no orbital bombardment and no death ray for this very reason. People will always know what is happening to me (at least mechanically).
2) We know that when you log off, your construct stays in game where it was.
3) In DU there are no ships or buildings: There are only constructs, some of which happen to be able to move.
4) We do not know how shields work in DU yet, all we have heard is that there is a 48 hour timer. So let's not jump to conclusions before we have even had a devblog about how shields actually are intended to work.
Now I will skip to my own conclusion:
To be fair to all players, any unmanned unmoving construct will necessarily need protection of some kind because Real Life Happens. This makes the game more accessible to more people. Crying that this is unfair to pirates is incorrect. It is 'unfair' to cowardly pirates that are too afraid to attack a manned construct.
But doesn't this mean everyone will just log out at the first sign of trouble? Well, games have solved that problem a long time ago: the shield only goes up after a certain period of time has elapsed after the last mans log off. Does this hurt unintentional disconnects? Yes, but that would happen far less often at the exactly wrong time than people would abuse the system to stay safe from bad situations.
I would rather this timer-shield, call it a "guard shield", be seen as a separate mechanic to normal player built shields. Player built shields would run off power and can be knocked down as mentioned in earlier posts.
My 2c
So that playstyle should be banned and is not worth anything?
That also kills: Parking lots, security forces dedicated to protect assets of players, stations with huge and hard to kill shields run by players, stations dedicated to host those police forces. It even kills other branches of gameplay like distracting the police force in an area in order to get a small team inside a base and steal stuff. Or probably you skill for 1 year to get ninja skills to sneak into bases unseen to hack or steal something (which can ofc be countered with some other skillset).
If all constructs are safe and can't be harmed/stolen/manipulated by any means - that's what you would call an "op mechanic"
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I'm retarded. who knew?
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It was the 6k backers reward. So this reward is not for post-ks backers. Or buy silver PHYSICAL or above now to get the ID card
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Yes power and size of shield and protection should be relative to the size and resources of group activating said shields. Don't disagree with that.
Only thing I disagreed with is the notion that you "have to be a part of a big nation, guild, Org, City" to be "safe". Emergent gameplay and all that.
But yes "safe" is very relative IMO. A large Org might provide more safety, but a smaller one might be more agile and able to react and adapt better due to not being unwieldy. Bottom line there will (needs to) be ways for groups and players of all size and playstyle to protect themselves and have defenses.
Agility is useless in regards of shields because they are immobile (otherwise l.p.
). This thread is about the possible game mechanics how to balance those shields to make it fair for everyone. Just like smaller orgs should be protected enough so they prosper, they shouldn't be able to do the same things as big orgs. So how to balance those things will be crucial -
Well as far as we know now, those are exactly the bubbles and shields we talk about here. That's no new information.From the AMA threads.
https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/10000-kickstarter-ama-event-first-part/
https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/10215-kickstarter-ama-event-third-last-part/
Sorry nothing in there saying you HAVE to be a part of some big Org to have shields and able to have shield timers and protections.
If you have a link stating such do feel free to share.
EDIT: Also I never said anything about "huge" shields or whatever. Made no mentions of shield size or power what so ever. All I said was protection should be available regardless of playstyle or group size.
and yes you clearly said, "In DU you can't be part of a 10man org and think you're safe (except the arkzone), you have to be part of a bigger nation"
you are not safe in such a bubble, because it can be destroyed. A large nation can provide other means of protection which then adds to your safety, so you are much more safe when part of that big org.
I think.we talk exactly about the same thing
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And where did I explicitly say that smaller orgs shouldn't be able to build a small shield for themselves? I just countered your point of treating every playstyle the same - which is not possible. You just can't have the same big badass things as big orgs, that's fact, otherwise it would be unbalanced.I did post about shield timers, would have seen it had not been so zealous to attack the notion that the zerg mentality shouldn't be the end all be all in a sandbox game. and saying smaller groups should have the use of shield timers as well IS on topic, it just disagrees with your pov, there's a difference.
All I was saying is regardless of playstyle there needs to the ability to protect ones assets. You can go ahead and keep thinking that only large zerg Orgs or mega metropolis should be able to protect themselves if you want but seeing as the Dev is making a sandbox game that they said would allow players to play how they want, I think they might disagree with your notion.
Small orgs can have a smaller, weaker shield. Idc - why not? Downside: you can't fit everything underneath it or it is big but very weak. Bigger org = more resources, more power, bigger shield.
If just everyone can build and power a big, powerful shield you kill every pvp aspect there is
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No it would simply kill the player not having a defense against those things. Like I said in post above there will likely be ways to take down shields but simply waiting for timers to go down, or waiting for players to log and raid at 4am is lame gameplay that should be avoided at all costs. Players regardless of play style and group size need to have ways to protect themselves and their assets.
It being a sandbox means there will also be solo and small group players. Saying they HAVE to be a part of something big pretty much goes against the spirit of a sandbox game that's supposed to allow us to play how we want. Emergent gameplay goes both ways it needs to be there for everyone, not just a preferred or single gameplay style.
Sorry but from a balancing point of view your suggestions are just not possible. A big group will (and should) ALWAYS perform better than a lonesome wolf. You can't have a TU with a huge shield which protects everything you got underneath there, just because you want to play alone and the game has to support this. Won't happen.
But this talk is OT - if you have any contribution on shield timer ideas, feel free to participate
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Pretty sure they also mentioned some sort of shields or protection for our personal constructs, houses and such. Wouldn't really be fair if only way to protect your stuff is to be a part of a large city or Org or just stay back in the Ark safe zone.
If you provide a link, I would believe you
If such a shield would exist, they completely kill piracy with that. No robbing, no stealing, no trespassing, no ransom, no loot.
In DU you can't be part of a 10man org and think you're safe (except the arkzone), you have to be part of a bigger nation, org, alliance in order to keep you safe in this hostile new world - that's the whole point of emergent gameplay
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Would it be better if they let you set the time that it comes out of hardened mode? Like you could set it for 6:00pm, and it will harden for 24 hours plus to 6:00pm. That would give more advantage to the defender.
Exactly. The defender should get the right to choose when his shield exits reinforcement (from somewhere between 36 - 48h - if it's a hard number ofc!) and the attacker doesn't know that amount of time.
What about player experience? All numbers are examples!
Like:
- 1 attacker needs 48h to shoot it down
- 10 attackers need 36h
- 20 - 1000 attackers need 32h (harden the shield / damage mitigration / whatever)
BUT
- shield recharge rate (or someone actively reinforcing it?) needs minimum of 15 attackers to be overcome by
You can't kill a shield alone, a small group can't do it either and larger ones still need 32h.
Bring in the 'Shield detonator' (construct/weapon)
- immobile/fat/easy target/vulnerable/easy to kill so attackers need to watch over it
- needs spool up time of 12h
- kills 50% of the shield / deactivates recharge
- is rendered useless (but flyable?) for 12h
So the defenders can still react and even if the detonator goes off, they still have hours left to organize something.
What I don't like about this:
- blob wins (as attacker just bring 5times the ships/manpower) so defenders have no chance in destroying the detonator
- small groups will have a hard time getting shields destroyed (not enough ships/manpower to overcome recharge or man every crucial position)
To counter those problems:
Add maybe the possibility to kill the shield/recharge rate with hackers (emergent gameplay, spy stuff, ninjas)
Countering blobs is always hard, I think there is no real solution to that one
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Why should there be a mechanic that forces players to fight? Why not let players take care of that stuff? This is a sandbox, you can do what you want. There should not be any mechanics that force something upon you - players should force you.
And they will
- Limyaael and Pang_Dread
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Hi there
as JC mentioned in
at 55:16
"There are ways to protect the players: there are safezones but also territories you can own to create relative safe strips of land and also there are protection bubbles which are expensive and hard to destroy, for those there is a timer of 48h in order for players to react"
IMHO this shield ONLY
- applies to immovable constructs (no ships!)
- is some sort of construct itself (or a mod to a market for example)
- is not related to the territory unit at all
I have played eve. Alot. Too much. Hard timers like this one are just no fun - in DU it's even more complicated.
So you have claimed your piece of land on an outer rim planet with a TU and have built a market there with a nice small shield to protect it from big bad pirates. But they know you are there and there is loot - so they come. Since your stargate may be destroyed/locked to others, they need to travel to you - which could take weeks. They bring 500 ships with them and when they arrive, they shoot once and ..... wait. 48h until that reinforcement timer runs out. Then they just kill that shield with their overwhelming firepower and take everything they want. So where was the point in building that shield again?
If there is only a hard 48h timer on those shields:
- The attackers will come in their primetime - never in yours. So for defense you will always have trouble finding enough people to defend, even with an org spread around the world
- If they come with enough force, it doesn't matter much if there is a shield or not - favor of the blob
- For the defender it's no fun because he just can watch being defeated and for the attackers it's no fun because it boils down to a boring waiting game
So what better mechanics could you think of? What would be a fair deal with those shields that encourages emergent gameplay?
You could just implement a maximum dps transfered to the shield - so it doesn't matter how many ships attack. You could harden the shields, instead of adding a timer. But done poorly it only boils down to: the attackers have to shoot for 48h on that shield - constantly - to take it down - that's just boring.
I can think of two scenarios:
- The stargate to your world is shut down or locked
- The stargate is useable or the attackers are on the same world already
The first scenario would be the most easy way to solve. Since you are alone there and you want it that way, you could just install huge antennas / radars / whatever to scan for ships which are inbound. Make a radar technician a thing and scan for ships - you have your time to react then.
The second scenario is tricky.
You would need some sort of timer, may it be obvious (hard 48h timer) or hidden (harden the shield / maximum dps), otherwise it would just not be balanced.
I have no 100% working solution to this, because it's a very hard to balance mechanic in a game. I have something in mind and will throw some arguments, posting my idea later:
- Spy/Hacker is used to bring down shield faster/completely
- maximum dps
- the more defenders/attackers -> the more hp the shield has
- Hacker is used to deny the defenders a message that their shield is under attack
- a special ship/construct/weapon is used to kill the shield at a faster rate/completely
- adjustable timer
So what to do?
- Terawa and Batavia_Santana
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welcome to the community
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Go digital to get DACs too with ruby
It's a tradeoff: cheap pack for lifetime sub, but no DACs to hoard and sell. With more expensive packs like emerald and diamond you have loads of DACs for ingame money. Good tradeoff imho
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Hopefully you are keeping the "alt char" process seperate to general cyrotech!
Yes it's seperate, wouldn't make sense.
The way this story evolves, this is the most elegant explaination I could've imagined - there are easier ones if your story starts the right way.
Maybe others come up with better explanations, lore wise. Would be interesting to read.
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Hi there,
It's time to reveal my story.
Keep in mind:
- It's written from my roleplaying point of view
- there are references, hidden and obvious, to many things in there (mostly related to DU)
- I deliberatly didn't mention any year or city
Have fun reading and talking about it
- Kurock and Anaximander
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Oh definitely not
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Yes, indeed. This is more of what I had in mind. The information could be the same as what you have mentioned, give or take; it's five centuries into the future after all. It is almost imperative that the primary radar be more informative than the scanner, as long as the object in question is selected or highlighted from the radar panel or whatever way the interface makes possible, the resulting information should be clearer and more precise than using the scanner for the same purpose. While posting the question, I had the directional scan of Eve in mind, but on which stat should the information rely? The quality of the antenna, the required and specific skill levels of the player, or both?
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For a simple dscan you just need to know IF there are any vessels nearby and how far they are away. To start evasive maneuvers.
For the radar there should be more relevant stats: what kind of antenna? how big? Are you near some sort of field which disrupts it (possibly introduced at a later stage)? How high are your skills with operating it? Does the "enemy" vessel have any means of protection on it?
Then you get, depending on how well you did on scanning that ship, different aspects of it as mentioned
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It's a game ... just define one standard time and your good
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defend it
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the spam is strong in this one
Timer on shields
in Idea Box
Posted
Well I got that, but the conclusions are off. No player who logs on daily will use those lots. So you get less people using it which will maybe render them not viable to run.
Players who are online don't need those lots anyway
In a MMO (focus on the multiplayer part here) a loner should not be favored. It sshould be possible, true.
Easy mechanic: risk vs. reward. You want huge rewards by playing alone and getting all that sweet sweet diamond-extremium-expensive ore for yourself? No problem - just live with the risk that your base might get raided while you are away. For exploring, you don't need that "guard shield" for your constructs because it's either useless (because you're more than a week away anyhow) or it just is totally op because nothing could possible attack you. That mechanic will lead to easily abusable, perfectly safe grinding bases. And if you are worried about RL issues of players: everyone has them, and there will be enough groups who support this (and players not online more than 1/week).
I want DU to be balanced. Newbros and peaceful players should have their perfectly safe zones (mind the blank) and pirates their prey. But the higher the reward, the higher the risk - so they say in eve as you....don't know