Lethys

yeah, yeah I get it now.....first I thought you meant some sort of element/base tile or something, that's why I asked those questions....blonde moment there by me, myself and I. I really think this boils down to a simple equation: risk vs reward. Can you defend it? How many people you need to pay? What's the cost of all that infrastructure you need? Is it even feasible (large enough vein, rare ore,...)? Have there been pirates around? How well is your intel? Do you have friends around somewhere? Depending on those (and more) aspects, you can develop such a complex. But I think most bases in DU will be underground....and hidden....so I image more like an industrial city like Menzoberranzan

Ahhhhh.......lol sorry I'm slow tonight well, as you said, industrial areas will be a natural thing in DU. Why ship that ore for 20km when you can just build a refinery next to the dig site. If it's a huge vein with lots of people involved, you'd need defenses too. Military housings, turrets (ground and air), shelters and, ofc, all the industrial stuff like refineries, printers, hangars and lots of people. Depending on the veins and location, you could even build a shield generator there to be safe (well, somewhat ). But if you're only mining with your buddies (or alone) I would just dig a base nearby, hide the entrance to that base and live there. Oh and don't forget to hide that mining shaft too....

Can't multiquote on phone (yeah, too lazy too ) but what it says is: If they implement divisible DACs (weekly, daily tokens to trade for gametime) then you'd have to buy those with your rl-money. They are then sent to a vault, like an external inventory only you can access via your login, and stay there. You can redeem them everywhere you want and use them (in the safe zone for example, to be...Well...safe). But you can also transfer them back to that vault but then this specific DAC is marked with the location and once you want to redeem that dac, you can only do so at the same location you were, when you transformed it back. This prevents people from buying DACs from other players for in-game money, transferring them to the vault, getting to a new location and selling themof for in-game money again. Usually such items are VERY valuable and you can make a lot of money with it. So shipping them for nothing (and perfectly safe!) Is a bad idea. Plus it adds a little danger to the whole DAC thing because you have to know in advance if you want to use it or sell it. And where you want to do this

Ok, I think I know what you have in mind but, to me, it would be better to have some sort of small cloak with huge drawbacks (no weapons, needs lot of energy, can't activate shields, something like that) for smaller vessels. Because I think that infiltrating a planet, landing somewhere unseen, is better done by a small and fast vessel than some large ones. The larger the ship - the more drawbacks. You just shouldn't be allowed to cloak up your whole fleet. Such a mechanic would be abused because let's say you have 20 ships - each ship just specializes in one aspect (plus that cloak) and you can roflstomp everyone with that setup - not ideal imho.

I have no idea what you intend to say with this Could you elaborate a bit more on what you have in mind? What bonuses? What drawbacks? How implement it? Why implement it in the first place?

Stealth devices making you blind was already discussed and to me it would be a very good mechanic. But I dnot like the idea of a large ship bringing stealth to smaller ships somehow. That would kill small, fast scouts and infiltrators. It can be balanced via shields, engines, timers, weapons.... plenty to choose from

Thanks Nyzaltar for the clarification. I like your ideas and reasoning, especially the second point (vault, dropping to last location). All of you at nq truly have the best for every playstyle in mind.

Like twerk said, this is the problem with those "generic, bad gameplay copying, korean MMO" type of games we see nowadays for the 50th time. People are so used to (IMHO) really bad game mechanics and grinding mechanisms plus the resulting, bad player attitude (get to lvl 20/100, find the uber sword of power, kill 3000000 boars, raid (omg that word) that boss 50 times, get this gear or we won't take you on the raid, you need to be THIS tall to come with us, talk to this NPC for a quest, ....). This all makes up for (sometimes) fun games but caters only to tight knit groups like friends or "elite" players but don't really have ANY depth. No NPC content creator (quest giver) can be as good as a player, nor can some kind of generic boss. But players all around the world are so used to this kind of setup that they forget what a real sandbox MMO should be like. In-game depth, emergent gameplay, hilarious situations, villains/good guys, archenemies, dark pirate lords, huge empires, dictators, good fellas who go for bounties and much much more aspects of a sandbox MMO like DU will be generated from PLAYERS. No AI, no sophisticated program, no robot can come up with creative solutions to a problem like a human can. I think the biggest problem such players have is their fear of trying something new, getting out their comfort zone and just accepting that this is an open world sandbox where no game mechanic outside the safe zone will protect your stuff - "I pay to play, so I want my stuff safe". They don't realize that you can do everything in DU and that players will come up with good and safe solutions for protecting their stuff. They fear a free for all slugfest with no rules, hardcore pvp outside those safe zones. I want DU to be fun for everyone, for good guys as well as for bad guys. You can't be a good guy without the bad ones. And guess what: when DU turns out to be a free for all hellhole then I will be the good guy (hard to believe, eh?). I don't want the 51st iteration of WOW mechanics and I don't want EVE 2.0. NQ has an oppertunity here to make a great game - and their vision is really really promising

We don't know yet how the skilltree is set up and what kind of skills you need to train, but you COULD have all those different armor/weapons/things. Everyone, perhaps with a certain cheap, easy skill trained, can use them and the only difference is: the guy with more skills in that specific branch can use those items 50/75/100 % better than a newbro - that's something to work for too. DU is about "REBUILDING SOCIETY" - I have no idea why you think that this doesn't involve politics. This game will HUGELY depend on politics, friendship, enemies, squabbles over land, wars and player interaction. And since all markets are player run this game will be about economy too. That doesn't mean you HAVE to be involved - you can be a lone wolf explorer andignore everyone else - but as it's a huge part of DU, you will miss out the interesting gameplay.

No, you can't level skills by playing. Yes, someone who only plays 1h/week will have the same amount of skills after 2 years than someone who plays 40h/week. Which makes sense because: - some have a job/family and can't play more than x hours per week - you create an "elite class" of players if a system with active skill progression would be introduced - which hampers newbros with low skills. They can't do much because they don't have "Shotgun Skill of Uber Killing 12341345" and noone will take them along - it would create boring as hell, stupid and repetetive grinding mechanisms (you have to level that skill!) - botting/afk players running against walls would be prevalent so they can train 24/7 - it's unfair for players who actually have a family and job With a time based system the only two advantages a very active player has (and those are HUGE ones): you have way more money and you can prepare and build your (multiple) bases. And besides, newbros are USEFUL with such a system because EVERY player needs to specialize in certain skills (as he can't train everything in a reasonable amount of time). So a newbro can be better than a veteran in certain fields of expertise, just because he trains those skills, while the vet never did that. I don't even reply to the statement because this is just a....fu....st....idea. And if you can't see why, then it's senseless to talk to you anyway. That's because EVE did some things really well (like the skillsystem) in regards to MMOs. See above why. Why do you think they do this for a specific group only? I just can't see why...they allow and cater EVERY playstyle like builders, programmers, administrators, pirates, military, nations, governments, alliances,.... you can be peaceful and just play with your friends and build some stuff or you can attack everyone in sight. All is possible and every playstyle is accounted for. And as a matter of fact: OF COURSE this game is only appealing to a certain group and OF COURSE NQ has a vision and want to be DU like that A casual classical MOBA player wouldn't find DU that interesting.... If this game isn't appealing to anyone - just leave. There are many many good games out there But saying that "NQ are only producing this game for a certain audience and exclude lots and lots of people" is just not true

If you don't trust that system then just look at eve. Pre-skill-injector. Same thing as DAC and it worked great. Yes there were (stupid) people who lost 5000$ worth of plex (they didn't lose 5000$, just the equivalent in rl money) because they had no clue or were careless. But this system enables people with money and less time to keep up with in-game money and at the same time provide people who play every day to play for free while at the same time NQ gets more money than they would get if everyone would pay a sub, because DACs are more expensive. So it's really a win-win-win situation. The drawbacks aren't that bad if you consider skilltraining, supply and demand and markets.

That was only for kickstarter backers for a certain period of time. It was 7€/DAC to a maximum of 10. But that ended afaik

DACs are already confirmed by NQ (read the open discussion topic by Nyzaltar). They work the way we described it to you - no assumptions here involved. Yep, but they need TIME for maxing those skills and, guess what, if they maxed them and build those ships themselves - they will kill you too. If they buy those ships with DAC or not doesn't matter really. If you sell whole bunches of DAC it will just affect prices of DAC....not the ingame money alltogether. See EVE markets for reference.

Only for your information: DACs are only cheap with the pledges, later on a sub is way cheaper (because that's the only way it makes sense). Once you used up all your DACs (from pledging) you need to pay 10-13€ / month. Somewhere (think it was at GDC) they said an I5 should be fine, but better have an I7. High end hardware now will most likely to be just enough to play DU

Welcome to the community and gl rrunning your org o7

That's the problem with your arguments. Right there. A robot should NEVER automate a ship. That's against gameplay for players. A robot should NEVER automate a factory. That's against gameplay for players. It's a MMO. If you want to pilot a big ship with loads of guns you have to take players with you. Not a robot. If you want to mass produce elements you have to have a large player base to help you gather the resources, refine them, feed the printer, build the elements/ships

Some people only see: " DAC can be bought with rl money " and instantly assume it's P2W. But they don't get certain points (Hades already pointed out many of them) like skills. So you have bought DACs and sold them for huge amounts of in-game money. You buy a huge, extremely powerful ship with that money.....But can't use it. At all. Because you need skills to operate it. And you need other players. So what DACs do is - give players the opportunity to earn in-game money with rl money (they don't have time for extensive mining, production or something and just want to play) - give other players the benefit of playing the game for free, if they earm enough ingame money The only other benefit which can be considered unfair is: wealthy people/alliances could sell loads of DACs to get ingame money in order to last longer in a war. But, guess what, the markets are player run and DAC follow the same rule as everything: supply and demand. Good luck selling 1000 DAC for the same price

Actually it's more like 10-13€ for a sub and around 18€ for a DAC. Yes DU is a subsription game, you have to pay per month in order to play No they won't change that Yes you CAN play for free (with DAC - like EVEs PLEX). Earn enough ingame money, find someone who sells DACs for ingame money, buy DAC with ingame money, use DAC and play 1 month. Next month: rinse and repeat

Exactly....If that scanner would show everything then it would be abused to find bases so I like the idea of a camo/stealth/whatever device so your caves/base doesn't show up at all and the intruder has no idea you're there. Ps.: ty, didn't realize that

JC or Nyzaltar said somewhere that there won't be a space elevator (can't remember where though, maybe AMA or some YT interview?)

If implemented you'd have to balance this quite well so: - only in build mode usable - shows no players - can't be used on other players' caves Or, if they go for a more sophisticated scanner (which I would love) then it should be balanced so that - the higher (=more expensive) the scanner, the more info it shows (wider radius, shows players, shows constructs,...) - players can counter this scanner by building some kind of base equipment

uhhhhh, shiny!

I think this new system is just another way to milk players. They want to get more money - that's all To me a DAC system like the old Plex system is fine - Your DACs are safe when you buy them with RL money - You sell them in a safezone and the buyer can use that DAC with 0% Chance of losing it - If you want to make huge profits with DAC (shipping them to the next safe zone), you take the risk of losing them Easy, simple, good

No, you wanted a COMMUNITY LAW, made by players, enforced by players (which you'd have to, because pirates). What Robert said is exactly what EVE does with its contract system: set it up, define collateral, define rules and so on. So THAT is ok because it's game mechanics - not some random players choice

Looks nice, gl with that org o/