carijay766
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Posts posted by carijay766
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2 hours ago, ArmitageShanks said:
Yep, but that's not the point. What I was saying wasn't a metaphor, it was more of a moral wish.
People are saying that the banned individuals did nothing wrong based on a rule aimed at PLAYERS. They knew what they were doing was wrong, yet they continued doing it and posted it on reddit for everyone to see so more people could take advantage of it. Regardless of whether they sent a DM to an NQ staffer on discord or not (this in itself is evidence they KNEW what they were doing was unintended, and I don't believe for a second they did send that DM, because that behaviour is diametrically apposed to their observed behaviour of recklessly disassembling a non-player owned structure).
The whole theft by RDMS thing is morally and ethically wrong, NQ have just stated that they will not intervene when one player does this to another player (this is something they've borrowed from EVE, where corporate theft is something that happens a lot). I fail to see how this excuses people stealing and destroying non-player property.
Just because it's a video game doesn't mean common sense, morals and ethics should go out the window. What they did impacted on other people, it was an inconvenience to people with no recourse to fix the issue. If you don't understand that, then there is something fundamentally wrong with you, and FSM help whoever you interact with in real life, because you're clearly not capable of weighing the consequences of your actions.
p.s. that last part is just a general statement, not aimed directly at you caijay766
No one knew this was a permabannabl offense it was never clear and not obvious. It was obvious that it would be provocative to play by NQs rules sure, but no one expected them to be this hypocritical and twofaced about such issues. We had a similiar issue before where people fucked up there RDMS and NQs was like "its your fault". That was the only example we had on mismanaged RDMS.
" video game doesn't mean common sense, morals and ethics should go out the window." if anywhere then games are the place where you should be able to be immoral, unethical and a murderer..... and not outside of games eg. overreacting and out of proportion real life punishment by NQ qed - but again what about disassembling a market is immoral or unethical?! its a building basically no one used and if NQ hadnt implemented their storage in an absolute nonsense and amateurish way it wouldve been a matter of 1 minute to fix and replace, youre making it sound like they kidnapped someone for 2 weeks and tortured the victim sending body parts each day to NQ... but what actually happened is NQ freaked out about their fuck up and nuked curious players who found something within the legal and intended game mechanics that was NQs mistake and their "gain" was marginal (a couple of XS lights an some plastic voxel and unusable error items wow) - im sure the alpha backers (mostly the people who defend NQs action) who took over their whole bases, ships and more as magic blue prints from alpha really are in a huge disadvantage now, not forget alpha backers (again NQ fucked up to launch of the website and beta key distribution on time) sold vastly avaible t5 to the market bot for insanely high prices in the early bird beta gaining several hundred million quantas before the game even really started (but lets ignore the bigger picture for convenience shall we - no one complained, no one was banned then even tho it was clearly not intended... everyone just rolled with it and swept it under the carpet)
Pro: it was within the games intended system - while surely provocative or gray zonish (but perfectly fine in sandbox sense of way) not an exploit or buguse at any end.
Contra: NQ was pretty butthurt about their own mistake, panicked, overreacted and now cant swallow their french pride to correct things and flatten the wave (their sad attempt atm is to censor and silence everyone)
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It's more like the police saying you can rob ANY open door without our interference, but when you rob the polices open door they hang you afterwards even tho it was never clarified and directly opposes our fundamental statement.
- Supermega, Anomaly and Armedwithwings
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But back to the topic. Thanks NQ for killing the game prematurely and showing your real hypocritical face early on. Now people kick around this corpse of a game claiming it just needs a good pat on the back to become alive again. ?♂️
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You are indeed right this thread is irrelevant. As are you.
Ps: the no ban sign was rather a message in terms of "if you actually consider this as something against the rules even tho it was all within the game mechanics and there is no prior example don't completely overreact otherwise this might cause a shit storm".
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2 minutes ago, Moosegun said:
Just not sure what you are deeming 'clearly unacceptable' that is all, presuming you are referring the that little gobshite that got banned, personally I find that perfectly acceptable. Think you are confusing personal opinions, with matters of fact. All good though, I am presuming English is not your first language.
Read again you bitter person. ?
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Don't be salty just cause you can't read my friend.
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I know it's hard for you to understand a simple sentence Moose, do me a favor and read again.
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1 minute ago, Iorail said:
If this is true rip game.
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So you'll remember him forever? ?
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10 hours ago, blazemonger said:
I certainly believe the dev team can pull it off, the performance during the recent EXPO pretty much made that point very well.
IMO what is giving you the impression you have and the problem in general is the support and community team who seem to be understaffed, ill trained, lacking soft skills and empathy and are often both out of touch with the devs and the overall community. Not anyone in particular (as I am sure that most absolutely could and would do better if they had the opportunity) but as a team. And it feels like there is no one central who can or is managing the project.
There is no one central who is capable of managing this. JC is a naive researcher who thinks you can run a gaming company like a research lab. But as someone who has worked in both areas I can certainly tell you that's not the case at all.
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Well obviously it was unclear If this is a bannable (especially perma) offense since it was all within the game design. People are using way more obvious exploits to an much larger extend (abuse of hovers, alt-f4 anyone) and NQ is like that's cool. Judging in hindsight is easy. If NQ would've been mature about this you'd be talking differently.
There were way more than 4 people who checked out the market after it was out in the open and certainly took a voxel or two as souvenir. We only see the tip of the iceberg here.
It's in the nature of the sandbox to explore irregularities, to test the limits and possibilities (again within the absolutely intended game systems). Now a lot of people were punished for playing the game and got blamed by NQ for several of NQs mistakes while all the actual exploiters get a pat on the head.
Why didn't they perma ban the people who uncovered the mysteries faster than intended for example (they didn't even have time to put textures on Thoramine)?
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38 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:
So someone using hover engines on an elevator boosting them into space? JC himself said that this was never envisioned and he saw the practice bringing those who did it great profits, since getting to space the "proper way" takes nearly 100x more fuel.
Strictly, by the above definition you gave, they are exploiting the game.
So clearly, some exploits are allowed and some aren't.... Used a system in an unintended fashion?check.
Profited?check?
gain advantage over others unaware of exploit?check...
Seems pretty watertight case for punishment according to your statement.
Now, that last statement is very interesting. I searched for "delete non-player assets" in the EULA and came up blank.
but if it were in the EULA, then sure, they'd be caught.
But remember, NQ have stated they won't punish retroactively... so...
I hope you see that by defining something apparently watertight, you open the floodgates to other abuses.This. That clearly ticks all the boxes of an exploit yet NQ calls that "creative use". People still don't wanna see the hypocrisy in this.
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3 hours ago, Ram said:
Sorry to confuse you with other people but you have to admit it is difficult when you all parrot the same ridiculous excuses for poor behavior.
It was difficult to see within a repetitive pattern yes? Even tho the info was out there yes? Do you notice something?
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Dude again youre missing essential parts of basic concepts here.... An integral and essential part of an exploit is that it gives an unique advantage (thru ways that are not generally avaible). There was no unique advantage the market was open to EVERYONE."NQ specifically put wording in the TOS, so when they screw up like this, players don't go post about it on Reddit."Which shows how little they want to take responsibility for their mistakes. Also im pretty sure that is against EU law."That doesn't change the fact that intentionally violating the TOS gets you banned."If anything is was an absolute gray zone, what made NQ freak out was their second, much bigger fuck up within the initial fuck up. Storing data as an ingame item, which is insanely amateurish. They could been a positive constructive example, this was the first case of players and NQ ingame interaction on that level, so there was no guideline to go by. Now people might twist and turn things in hindsight to make it look that this was obviously completely against the ToS,EULA,Banana because NQ has reacted randomly, but objectively there is no example of this happening prior to this. If it wouldve been so obvious that this wouldve only been met with this kind of overreaction and overly harsh punishment, do you really think anyone wouldve actually and intentionally done something? Clearly this was an unclear situation and interesting for actual sandboxers, honestly I laughed about it at first thinking NQ would fix the situation and promise to be less negligent in the future and maybe made a kind of ingame event out of it. But they completely put it on the players. Sure you cannot think of everything, but especially if youre 99% of the issue and reason why the stuff went down you should be able to man up and not lash out onto players.
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Are you seriously comparing duping and hacks with stealing some voxels within the intended game mechanics (unintentionally and accidentally breaking NQs absolute horrible way of data storing)?
No one would defend dupers, no one would defend speed hackers, no one would defend other means of third party use or messing with the game code. Actively trying to break the game by creating programms is something on a completely different layer. No one wouldve bat an eye if they wouldve banned these kind of hackers and actual exploiters. They made a huge mistake and now theyre treating regular players who did not mess with the game in any other way than how it was intended like they hacked into their mainframe and deleted all accounts plus doxing JCs private address. This is out of proportion.
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Well in its sum this and the other things that happened will amount to more than just a boohoo I'm afraid.
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Exactly the shortsightedness of NQ is causing the biggest harm here. Some people here mistake the concern for the future of DU as hate for DU, but its the opposite if anything. For many its obvious that what NQ is doing is actually harming the reputation and therefore the future of the game itself. I dont understand how a company that claims to be community orientated thinks it gets away tyranny and ignorance in this day and age. The censorship is also a huge part that worries me. Of course many of us try to document as much of the events as possible and if NQ keeps on with this it will come back even worse. I can only shake my head at a company that acts like a little kid with an hurt ego instead of reaching out to the community and solving issues in a mannered fashion, being able to admit their own responsibility in this and act accordingly, instead of spreading lies, twisting words or trying to change things into something theyre not or even deny stuff that is well documented.
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"From now on no more wipes" also im pretty sure a wipe at this point, especially considering people are paying, would be devastating. But again with NQ anything can happen as we see theyre completely random and justify their randomness with ridiculous reasons.
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Unless theyre redirecting the traffic via AWS (which would explain the lag) theyre using AWS yes.
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7 minutes ago, Eruend the SkyReaper said:
Running a company isn't about flimsy things like "ideals" and "doing the right thing". On that much, I can agree.
HOWEVER... Selling something requires to have a good grasp of the targeted consumer's interests.
In this game's case, the common trait all customers share, is that they want to play a game where they can so what they want, only needing to fear repercussion if they break the rules.
This event has shattered this concept. No rule was broken and a player has had all of his rights and progress revoked over something that was so ambiguous that their only defense is citing "common sense".
This only shows that no player is safe playing this game. Forget PvE or PvP, at any time, if you end up doing something that the devs don't like, wether it be accidental or not, you will lose all your progress.
This is pretty much a game led by an authoritarian regime. Tyrany at its best. And this is not something that will attract customers in the slightest.
They need to shape up, or I'm not going to waste any more of my time and money on this failure of a game. I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in this.I would disagree on the "doing the right thing"-part with you, since NQ should be a positive example for what they expect of others and I guess morals are also a thing when you run a company. Other than that its perfect summaration of the underlying issue.
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16 minutes ago, Rakaneth said:
instead of separating data from UI, market data was encoded into physical game objects.
instead of double-checking RDMS, NQ staff released an editable marketplace.
instead of reporting the bug and waiting, dudes decided to actually disrupt market trading for anyone living around alioth 15.
instead of a temp ban and a meeting with GMs to find out where player-dev communication broke down, permanent bans are issued.
Everyone sucks here.
this sums it up quite well.
"instead of reporting the bug and waiting, dudes decided to actually disrupt market trading for anyone living around alioth 15."
its true partially, but it was never the intention of the players at any point to disrupt any trading (but a consequence clearly). and market 15 was incredibly far out and basically deserted, the devs have restored the market now and the damage was minor. but yeah definitely not the best approach on the players side, tho a reversible one. im fairly certain no one wouldve expected this kind of badly done storage of the data. if that wouldve been known to the players no one wouldve touched it. im also fairly certain damaging anyone was never the intention it was more the interest of disassembling the market and checking out the innards. like you would expect for a game thats full of engineers and builders. later on some other people came aswelll and took a bite after the whole thing was out in the open for hours and hours and NQ did not react to it.
"instead of a temp ban and a meeting with GMs to find out where player-dev communication broke down, permanent bans are issued."
especially considering NQ has been bragging about "being so close to the community" this point is very disappoiting as you can see theyre absolutely not close to the community, when it comes to their mistakes they get even unreasonable and defensive. officially starting to spread lies about "it wasnt reported" even tho there is clear evidence that it was. this redirection of blame is shocking.
Now NQ shrouds themself in darkness and expects the internet to forget.
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JC said there will be no more wipes anymore, worst case a temporal rollback to the latest backup if they mess up worse than now.
RIP Market 15
in General Discussions
Posted
"When you flaunt the fact that you exploited a bug." youre forgetting that even people who just took even one voxel - after it was known and public for hours and NQ did not react even tho it was reported in the discord server and the GMs even acknowledged this - were permabanned apparently.