vylqun

you can add endless grind thats obly inportant to the player himself to the game, but its definitely impossible to add long time, grindy, jobs like those to the game if other players depend on them. Boring work is only feasable if you cant live without it, this sense of urgency is impossible in a game. And i dont talk about the few instances of hardcore rp here.

There would be no benefit in doing that aside from a little higher security. In contrary, a shared market between many orgs would lead to lower prices because there are more people selling the same stuff, thus its not desireable.

Exactly that, all current MMORPG have prebuilt cities which normaly serve as trading hubs. We wont have that in DU, so most trading hubs will be on the sacntuary moons and, if possible, maybe at the arkship. There is just no need at all to build a city just for trading in some random location that isn't save from if there are no other incentives.

trading hubs, sure, yes, that's one of the only reason for players to build something resembling a city. Gas stations? just another shop in the trading hub if there is no special element for fast refills. Transports? either ships or player inventories, construction companies are most likely unneeded and materials just count as another item that shos, ships or a players inventory caries. And most traders won't really build a house around trading hubs, because traders live from being able to move. They will build their stall and thats it (players, especially traders tend to play in an economic way). I think most of the reasons you think would lead to growing cities are just wishful thinking.

thats exactly what i wouldnt want to see in DU, because is basically magic, not really scientific.

Letting people design space suits? i dont think so, else those backer-only designs wouldn't make any sense. Remember, this is not a space second life, and while it might be fund to have mechanics and possibilities for nearly every part of life, its just not possible for a company of NQ's scale to code something like that. They know what kind of game they want, and they will have chosen their priorities accordingly. Mechanics that have only a small impact on the gameplay wont make it into the game anytime soon, maybe after the first few big after-release updates. DU is a bit to ambitious for that.

sadly both kind of players need completely different game mechanics, and while Sims players, with clothes food etc. can play together with warmongers as long as they are save, to many survival mechanics will drive pvp players away. The discussion about having a food system or not was quite big in the past and served to prove that. PvP players want to have clos eto zero survival/upkeep mechanics, while its the bread and butter for rpg/sims/whatever players. thats one of the problems here, cities need a lot of work without ingame gain, which is why only few players will create one without incentive. And honestly, who, if not hardcore rp players, would work as garbage collection or similar tedious work in a game if it doesn't pay well? that's why we need gameplay benefits for those things. We can't hope that rp-players have sufficient drive to deal with that. I'm all in for social/educational/recreational elements for buildings which could gather players there. Be it an physical therapist center that helps removing penalties due to being reincarnated, Foodstuff/entertainment modules that slightly increase xp gain or whatever, but we can't rely on players without giving benefits. If you want a garbage collector we better have a salvaging mechanic that can be used as personal skill or incorporated in garbage refineries to make their time worthwhile.

exactly that, good summary. with no real gameplay benefits only rp-players or big guilds will build cities, we most likely see wont those randomly grown cities that would make a sandbox rpg immersive and entertaining, and thats why this topic is very important to du.

correct, it depends on the need, creating such a need in a game is vastly different from reality tho. But i dont want to repeat myself, just read my first post, my thoughts are clearly stated there and as much as we might want it to, du will never even be remotely like the real world. Real life has to many social and biological "mechanics" that can't be properly replicated in games like du.

but just if it is nessecary, DU isn't the real world^^ and just not having to transport resources is far from being enough of a reason.

No i do not, and yes, as it stands now they magically make them vanish and appear, that's why i said they should only work if you there is a space-port or trading hub specific element somewhere in the vicinity, maybe an element that helps transferring big amounts of resources from specially marked containers. Because then you could argue that there are transport ships which arrive and bring/take all the stuff the market bots buy/sell (ofc. no one ever sees them). Just makes it a bit more reasonable than magic tricks and adds to the city building, especially if it has other, useful functions as fast loading/unloading player owned ships. maybe there could be mobile versions of factory units with much smaller production rates and less energy consumption.

To have a somewhat imersive experience in Dual Universe we definitely need to see cities. But why exactly would people create cities in DU if just use a vast amount of resources without any real benefit except for showing off? Normally city planning depends on a lot of different factors, like the environment, available resources, especially food, the condition of the ground, expected industries etc. Those are mostly things that wont work in DU. On the other hand, building cities in DU has quite a lot of disadvantages, like being target for raiders, warmongers or just griefplayers. So without any real benefit or need to create cities we will at most have very few large organization building and maintaining a city as HQ and maybe one or two trading hubs. Mostly we'll see well hidden factories and bases which are statistically placed across the planets with nearly no clustering. There are two possible ways to facilitate cities. One is giving artificial benefits like production bonus or similar things, i wont advocate that as it is unrealistic and just shows a lack of creativity in the game design. The second way is giving realistic incentives. The only incentives that work on larger scales in a mmorpg are economic or security benefits or needs. Social or educational facilities can be mostly ignored (there could be University-Type elements that increase the speed of accumulating xp for the first 20% or something of the skilltree, with which organizations can cater to new players, but that wont be a real incentive for creating a city). In my mind there are three mechanics which would directly create the need for clustering buildings on a small area: 1. Powergrid The first suggestion is, that all functional elements (Doors, electronics etc.) require electricity. Standard, small sized elements would need a marginal amount of power so, that a small generator that can easily be installed in every ship/building is sufficient to support them. More advanced facilities like factories, Elements with strong supporting effects (something like the University for example, or greenhouses), military elements (planetary turrets, shields, sensor units ...) however should have an exponential increase of the power required. Factory units for example should require enough power, that no stacking of small generators can support them. To support those power hungry elements players can build power plant elements which are extremely large on scale, like 64³m³. They would support buildings within a certain radius with a set amount of power and to increase that radius you could create power-relay stations. What does this do for city building? If players want to run a factory or other facilities they need to create a power plant. If a single power plant generates enough electricity to support several factories, then the economic way of action would be creating enough factories within the vicinity of a power plant to effectively use the generated power. A large cluster of factories in turn needs military protection as it is a nice target for raiders, thus we have some kind of city growth. At the same time owners of those power plants could rent space in the effective radius for players which can afford to create a factory, but not the required power plant. This can be extended to every kind of large scale element which would be nice to have in a city, for example if we want a space port in the city. The simplest way would be to just create some flat areas for ships to land on. But what about quality of life services like refuelling or rearing constructs? Those actions can take ages. If we had large scale elements like a repair Dock, which repairs damaged ships in the vicinity if activated or refuelling stations, those can save a lot of time to players. Elements like that would also require a lot of power, thus the need for a power plant in the vicinity. In short, if every advanced element has a big size and a large power requirement, coupled with the need of power plants, we would by default see clusters of buildings which can be called cities. 2. Resources We can see in some videos how the ground is removed with a tool, its fast, efficient and effortless. if we can mine resources in this way, then DU players will be like a big locust swarm, run across the surface of a planet, scanning and within hours mining all interesting resources. But a big influence on city-building is the need to create a permanent structure in specific places, thus mining resources should definitely not be near-instant. Optimally mining out a big underground ore vein should take years if done by hand or several months when done with elements for mining. If we have long term mining then locations get a certain economic and strategic importance. If an organization finds a large vein of a rare metal it can't just mine it and go away, it has to defend this place against other players. Thus they need to create defensive structures, which again need power plants. If you have defensive structures and power plants on a mining base and some power surplus due to it then its economic to just continue and create the needed refinery elements etc. too, which in turn leads to clusters of buildings again. 3. Dependencies Similar as all functional elements require electricity there can be other dependencies which make it necessary to create several constructs at the same place. In the new content update we learn about market Bots, where resources can be sold for quanta and elements can be bought (probably very limited after crafting is implemented, but maybe some of the most basic elements can still be bought). Those Quanta and elements aren't created from void and the sold resources can't spontaneously vanish. So if someone wants to place market bots in his base, it would make sense to require a trading hub element in the vicinity. There are quite some heavy industries which are dependent on water as coolant, so some refinery elements could actually need water purification plants in the area, the same plants could be used to support greenhouses or other buildings with water. If several buildings depend on each other there is a huge potential to incline people to gather together and create cities. Especially as everyone has a limited amount of cores available. ######## I really think that those three points are absolutely necessary for a good experience in DU and will lead to some pretty interesting results.

But the thing about crypto currencies is their limitation, ofc its possible to code thousands of possible solutions for ppayer run currencies and similar, bit i doubt its worth the effort for nq.

its pretty much a no. Everything that concerns currency and stock markets require a strong faith that you get something in equivalent value. In the real world we have governments and similar regulating organizations who enforce certain rules which is why people have faith in paper currency or stocks, but we definitely won't have the necessary mechanics in a mmorpg.

Could someone from NQ pls elaborate what exactly the furniture props contain? Do players start with a set of furniture decorations, or are those unique skins or something else?

I'm sorry to necro this thread, but just for the sake of ppl who read this topic and Eternals explanation about lasers, literally everything he wrote concerning Lasers is wrong, so please don't remember or even distribute it.

and exactly thats why you shouldn't join unofficial discord servers if its not one run by ppl you know, because moderators tend to be easily offended by tiny things and are very trigger happy^^

alien slime pls.

looks quite interesting, indeed.

just give us a transistor and everything is fine

i wouldn't worry about the UI yet, thats something that most likely will be greatly improved with the feedback of the testers after the alpha starts.

i'm pretty sure its just the dev tool for digging thats so fast, even tho i wouldn't mind it being ingame that way, gathering a massive amount of ressoures is always the most boring part^^

its important to differenciate between alpha and pre-alpha tho, don't join the pre-alpha and start streaming your gameplay.

we could now lead a discussion about why a healthy community shouldn't welcome every kind of attitude in posts and what the best reaction towards those attitudes is (pampering or ignoring isn't always the best answer), but that would be far to offtopic, so i will avoid doing so^^. Just let me point out that i never said people who know less then me aren't allowed to ask, its the way the questions are written which is important.

no, our "job" is it to review the devblogs and other sources of information about DU and give our suggestions as well as looking for bugs/exploits and similar as soon as the alpha starts, we're not community managers . We may answer questions if we feel like it, but we aren't obligated to do so (and yes, we are allowed to give offtopic responses to questions in the general forum area^^). Besides, you can't really call the thread a question, it was more like belittling the effort of the devs to make the game look "pretty" stating that it would lead to lag and claiming the devs wouldn't have adressed that problem yet. So all in all "read the devblogs" is an appropriate answer.