Hagbard

Ok, so what could be NQ's intention with the changes in Demeter that we are criticising here? 1. Reduce operational cost. => remove ground mining which creates massive amount of data in both server side storage and Internet traffic. => reduce number of tiles & constructs owned per player by implementing cost, this as well removes massive amounts of data in their database and helps with cost saving Additionally this will probably lead to the salvaging opportunities mentioned in the roadmap 2. Slow down player progression and therefore enable a longer player time in game (similar to introducing schematics when a player was able to reach "industry end game" in some months.) => make it harder to progress so reduce the amount of ore which gets injected into the game => slower player progression leads as well to less constructs and therefore less data, which helps with point 1 above 3. Fix Lag. => we all know that massive haulers with an extensive number of elements are currently not working in the engine as it is today. SO using a simple change like the airbrake obstruction would kill those massive atmo capable ships and force players to use separate smaller atmo and space capable ships. this will effectively remove the Lag monster ships from game All of these changes could make sense and create a working game, but the break in the gameplay for existing players is probably quite brutal. In alpha all of that would have been OK. There was no “persistence” promised for the Alpha. If NQ would communicate a bit more with the player base we wouldn’t have to speculate and maybe find ways together to come up with ideas and potential solutions and/or alternatives...

maybe we could have a new Mining Territory Unit.. if you use that, you will be able to use mining units and the high tax is due for that tile. but if you use a standard TCU, it will remove all ore pool values from the tile permanently ( or for e.g. 3 months) but it will only cost a one time fee similar to as it is today, this would allow content creators to get tiles for their projects and only if you ever plan to mine on a territory you would use the other new MTCU. with the fine adjusted taxes / placment charges this would stop people from massivley claiming minable tiles and still allow creative gameplay

as i said.. it will remove most play made content

linked containers seem to be bugged on PTS. i just flew to my space station 130km above my base and my linked container (which is 130km away) ist still being displayed/is accessible. So free mass transport over any distance?

In my opinion every time you make substantial changes to the gameplay, some players will dislike it and some will like it. this is normal and expected.. the goal should be to create a gameplay to enable the game to grow. i completely understand why ground mining has to go in order to lower operational costs. we just need to find a way how this change will be beneficial for the majority of existing and new players. when 0.23 was released, that was a needed change to the gemaply. but the majority of players felt like NQ took something away from them and thus stopped playing. with Demeter it is essential to avoid to create a non working gameplay. it has to be assured that the majority of existing players will find a new gameplay and that new players will have a fair chance of progression. a possible solution would be to establish mechanics to stop dominance of individual orgs/players. so it has to be assured that no single instance can easily claim all the valuable tiles. first delete all existing scans. second make it harder to scan huge number of of tiles and remove the "patterns" that allow players to easily hunt down the most valuable tiles. the other thing are the territory "taxes".. we need a mechanism that allows new players to claim territories to allow the content creation gameplay. then we need a mechanism to stop the "dominance" of single orgs/players to easily claim a unreasonable high number of tiles ( just to claim mining tiles without actively mining them) then we need income sources for new players to replace the previously underground mining. missions as they are today are not sufficient for this. it is not huge changes that are required to make this work, but rushing out demeter as it is on the PTS would be fatal.

i know players / orgs that have scanned full planets in this game.. and i do not know all players ;-).. so if you have a lot of scans it is a matter of minutes to identify the one tile which is a hotspot .. so withing 24h for sure this will be done for all valuable tiles . even if you would delete all existing scans and make players start to scan again.. it would be maybe a month before the same situation would be there..

this would still lead to all good mining tiles to be claimed in 24h

resolving the problems would probably not be too hard. here are some suggestions: 1. territory costs should be cheap for the first tiles.. then increase exponetially.. stop the possibility to have players claim unlimited number of tiles using orgs/suborgs. 2. delete all existing scan results and make it a lot harder to identify the mega tiles. make it impossible for single orgs/players to claim a high quantity of them. we've seen players finding patterns before, scanning full planets and being able to claim all undiscovered mega nodes of high value within months before.

i'm ok with territory taxes... but would opt for incremental tax depending on the number of owned territories. but the whole mining unit system has the problem that the tiles with the valuable l/h will be claimed in no time. so the workflow will be useless for all players joining in the future

i just opened another thread just before this Q/A was created... Ok, usually i am not negative but the balance of Demeter on the PTS server has some severe problems. 1. Territory costs of 1m per week: this will lead to almost nobody claiming any tiles any more outside of the sanc moon unless the territory can produce some serious income. so all "player made content" will disappear after some time 2. Scanning results do not get deleted and show l/h for mining units this will lead to ALL really valuable tiles being claimed within the first 24h after demeter goes live, as it is really easy to identify the most powerful tiles for mining units if you have containers full with scanner results. so after day 1, the fun is over and the "mega tiles" will be claimed by those players/orgs that have all the existing scans. NQ, as demeter is balanced on the PTS, it would kill the game if it goes to the live server - New players some days later would not have a chance to find income opportunities despite missions. - earning quanta will be a lot harder, so people would stop spending.. this would kill industrialists workflow. - the imbalance between experienced players/orgs and new players would get worse and even more players would demand a wipe or simply not enjoy the game please reconsider your decisions.

Ok, usually i am not negative but the balance of Demeter on the PTS server has some severe problems. 1. Territory costs of 1m per week: this will lead to almost nobody claiming any tiles any more outside of the sanc moon unless the territory can produce some serious income. so all "player made content" will disappear after some time 2. Scanning results do not get deleted and show l/h for mining units this will lead to ALL really valuable tiles being claimed within the first 24h after demeter goes live, as it is really easy to identify the most powerful tiles for mining units if you have containers full with scanner results. so after day 1, the fun is over and the "mega tiles" will be claimed by those players/orgs that have all the existing scans. NQ, as demeter is balanced on the PTS, it would kill the game if it goes to the live server - New players some days later would not have a chance to find income opportunities despite missions. - earning quanta will be a lot harder, so people would stop spending.. this would kill industrialists workflow. - the imbalance between experienced players/orgs and new players would get worse and even more players would demand a wipe or simply not enjoy the game please reconsider your decisions. Hagbard.

I would take a different approach. A capital ship powered with rockets/atmo engines shouldn't be able to easily land on a planet Espceialy if they only use normal atmo engines. We do actually have better engine types: AGG's. The AGG's used to be really useful when we've been able to operate them at higher speed. and honestly they are the most expensive engine tech in this game currently, but became basically useless with the slow ascend/descend speed they now have. If they are that expensive and high tier, why not make them useful? Why have an altitude limit on them of 1000m which leads to all the AGG towers everybody hates? My proposal: keep AGG's expensive but make them useful again! Remove the 1000m altitude limit and allow them to be used with higher ascend/descend speed. If you want to "nerf" them, maybe put in a mass limit at which they can be operated or make them even more expensive.

well. my fastest atmo only ship went up to 6130kmh and did not have any voxels.. landed safely at my base after getting to that speed.

well the other workaround is: do not use any voxel material on your construct. without honeycomb, the cross secrion calculation is always right.

Only very temporary workaround is going to build mode, waiting for better values to display, and directly activating the control unit. but it does not even last the full flight. i got contacted by NQ every now and then about my ticket on this sisue, but always just standard replies. nothing resolved till today. no big red error message on screen, not a lot of people relize the bug even exists, so no priority on it

Thanks a lot! a step in the right direction! some problems just can be resolved so much quicker and it does not make sense to always create a ticket just to get your ship out if the terrain loaded after landing and fetch is not working or whatever..

a standard hover engine detects water, so hovering above 0 meters is still possible there. a telemeter though displays ground surface (thorugh water) not sure if something has changed, but works as expected for me.

OK, so Schematics cost for T1 stuff will be reduced. everybody in game will be able again to build their own stuff. Even though i appreciate the change, i personally spent most my money since 0.23 in T1 Schematics to set up an industry to create those mainly T1 parts affeccted by the element destruction mechanics ( which oops.. won't happen) i assume no refund will happen... so all for nothing .. let's start over ( yet again)

the problem basically occurs as sometimes when the pilot quickly presses any of the buttons for the roll/pitch/yaw axis, one of the Filters/Events when releasing the key is not gettting executed. this leads to that axis constantly firing the adjustors. The change above fixes this and works great for any default autoconfig. If you use another HUD/flight control script, this might work, but might as well break other stuff.. so try at your own risk if you use something else then the default autoconfigs

**Fixing the "Roll of death" aka "Stuck Adjustor" bug in DU** Since almost forever there is a bug in the default autoconfigure scripts that causes adjustors to behave like they are "stuck". This leads to a lot of crashes. So here is the fix. Open the LUA Editor of your control unit (hoverseat, commandchair, remote control, whatever) click on "system" In here we have to change 6 different "actions" for the 3 axis. they are the "ActionStop" actions for the following keys: -left -right -forward -backward -yawleft -yawright Each of these actions is trying to change one specific variable by in/decreasing it. you have to basically overwrite the single line and assign the value 0 to that variable Here is the example for ActioStop(Forward): Original Line: pitchInput = pitchInput + 1 change tis line to: pitchInput=0 now do that kind of change for all the above mentioned actions (each axis will have a different variable name) then hit "apply" and enjoy the fixed bug, where your adjusters will not get stuck again. If you want, you can create your own autoconfigure script with these changes (copy the default\**config file to the custom\ directory and do the changes in there

they are since an update last week.. they haven't been really usefull anyway ( except maybe for repairing voxel damage from PvP), as they only replaced elements instead of repairing them with scrap. so just wait a bit for them and hopefully have NQ make them usefull finally...

here is a quick video demonstrating the bug in build mode. This constructs has 0.81m² and 0.38m² being displayed.. if you would finish this build, usually the 0.81 would get applied when flying, resulting in a much reduced top speed. ( unless you use the build mode steps i documented in the top post in this thread, to make the physiscs use the 0.38)

here ya go.. xs core & basic l atmo with my main account talents.. and same with engine lvl 5 talents: Regarding the cross section bug, you'll probably only see it if you are working on xs elements with an ultra small cross section( like the hagboard)

Flying Faster with less or ...Dual Universe and the cross section calculation I quite enjoy building small efficient atmo flyers (you probably know the Hagboard) The key to the fun factor of these little ships is keeping the Frontal Cross section as low as possible. For the Hagboard it is usually 0.38 which is the smallest value that is possible if you still want to have the comfort of a hover engine on your construct. But since some months, DU is not making it easy for these little ships. There is a bad bug with the cross section calculation which usually leads to a wrong (higher) calculation of the frontal cross section. You can easily see the problem by entering build mode and having a look at your max speed & frontal cross section. In most cases you first see lower speeds and a higher cross section, and after some additional seconds this value changes to the "real" values. So the frontal cross section is supposed to be the total surface of the ship when looking from the front. This should be a static value, but due to the bug, we get 2 separate values. Even worse: when starting a flight DU usually takes the "worse" value to calculate the flight physics. I assume that the first "bad" calculation is done on the client side, and the second "real" values somehow come either from the server or using some values being loaded fro the server. As sometimes the server is slow, we get into a situation where the "better" values might even never get loaded to the client. As well during flight, DU re-calculates this values. So even if we manage to start a flight with the "better" values, we might get faster speed & Acceleration at first, but after some control movements DU usually falls back to the slow values. There is 1 trick how you can do a test flight and "force" DU into the faster values.. give this a try: 1. place your construct flight ready, pointing towards a wide open area ( e.g. a big water surface) 2. enter build mode and look at your max speed / frontal cross section 3. wait for the max Speed & Cross section to be displayed with the "better" values 4. exit build mode and directly activate the seat/remote controller 5. give full throttle, avoid steering and try to stay between 100 and 300 m... By following these steps you should be able to do a flight with the "full potential" of your construct. Another possibility to increase the speed of your construct is to remove ALL Honeycomb from it. The cross section calculation only fails if there is at least 1 honeycomb voxel on your construct. so without them, it should always use the "better" values. i have 2 tickets around this topic open now for 1-2 months, but obviously NQ has more important things to fix right now. But as i get asked multiple times a day, i thought it would be easier to give the explanation here so i could point people to it ? Have fun flying, Hagbard

alt click with the tool you used to place it..