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Anaximander

Contracted Blueprints, Royalties & Fixed Currency Circulation

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Simple discussion really.


Should blueprints act as a unit unlock in RTS games?

E.G. : Player A sells a blueprint for a ship to Player B.


Player B has the materials, but to build the ship, he has to pay royalties set on the contracted blueprint to the owner of the ship.


This example takes into assumption the possibility of a universal currency (sadly), and my point of worrying is this.


Inflation.


If Player A sets the price on X amount at the point of the blueprints creation and after a year, the currency has inflated isnaely , the price set on that blueprint and that date, is now actually less that when it was set on. Which would require a sort of "termination of contract" via an NPC in the Arkship, that would allow a player to terminate their contractual blueprint with a set of "number of terminations remaining" and a recharge timer of months, or possibly, a real-money paid service, if the guy you sold your ships to ends up stealing your waifu or something :P .

Which opens the flood gates also to the need for fixed circulation of cash in the game, or, the ability for factions to build their own currency.

I know many EVE players are having a "rocket in their pockets" for such things. 



Mmmmmm, spreadsheets. ;)

 

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Selling a blueprint means that it's yours and you can use it to build as many ships you want.

Buying a ship, instead, has a price that is the sum of materials + royalties.

Blueprints would not be profitable to buy otherwise (since they'd have a way higher price than the royalties you'd pay when buying a already built ship)

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The way I see ship design sharing done is through blueprints with privelege parameters.

 

Whenever someone designs ship from scratch, or starting from another full privilege, he gets to make blueprint with full privelege and full access. But when he wants to sell it (copy of it to be precise), he can restrict what other person can do with it, to protect his intelectual property. Important parameters:

 

1)Modification. If blueprint has modification allowed, buyer can do whatever he wants we ship he build, replace parts however he wants, and keep changes in blueprint for rebuild and repair. If not, no modules can be added or removed from ship through build mode.

 

2)Multiplication. If blueprint has multiplication allowed, player can build any number of ships he wants from blueprint, or copy blueprint any number of times without adding additional priveleges. If not, blueprint cannot be copied, and whenever new ship is built from BP, previous self-destructs. This allows ships to be resold while keeping intelectual property intact.

EDIT: aditional royalty option that allows copying, but for every copy specific amount of money is transfered to owner of 'father' blueprint

2.5)Limited Multiplication. Same as normal Multiplication, but copies themself cannot have Multiplication. On the other hand, those copies also don't have any Master Access. Such system simulatiously protects interests of buyers and BP designer.

 

2.9)No rebuild. If blueprint doesn't have multiplication, it may also have no rebuilt parameter. It means blueprint is automatically destroyed when corresponding ship dies. Blueprint with no rebuild means after ship is destroyed, owner cannot rebuild and had to buy new. If BP allows rebuild, owner can rebuild ship after destruction without buying new blueprint.

 

3)Master Access. It defines that another bluprint is 'father' to this one, and whoever has 'father' blueprint, can change privelege parameters on this one at any time. This allows to sell blueprints to ship building companies on flexible conditions, while granting BP designer defense from abuse.

 

 

 

All in all, blueprints may: have or not have 'father'; be modifyable or not; be multiplyable or limited-multiplyable or rebuildable or non-rebuildable; have royalty amount or not; be administrated by 'father' or not;

 

Also, pretty much any object should have some form of blueprint for repair purposes.

 

Currency wise, blueprint copies are normal items and can be traded for whatever currency or barter items.

Cheers!

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Erm... why not use the RDMS which is already going to be in the game?

 

The original blueprint owner has all the initial rights.

Exchanging royalities for a blueprint would be a general contract which exchanges blueprint read/execute access for a duty in an arbitary form, recurring payment, access to something, having to sing once a day for the blueprint owner...

 

A change in royalities would be a change in the duties, which the owner of the blueprint can do through the RDMS interface.

 

No arbitary npcs or timers required, no fixed currency required

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Erm... why not use the RDMS which is already going to be in the game?

 

The original blueprint owner has all the initial rights.

Exchanging royalities for a blueprint would be a general contract which exchanges blueprint read/execute access for a duty in an arbitary form, recurring payment, access to something, having to sing once a day for the blueprint owner...

 

A change in royalities would be a change in the duties, which the owner of the blueprint can do through the RDMS interface.

 

No arbitary npcs or timers required, no fixed currency required

There's a devblog on that? O_o how did I miss it? Can you give me a link?

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2)Multiplication. […]and whenever new ship is built from BP, previous self-destructs.

Hellooo griefing.

Steal blueprint, start building a copy, stuff disintegrates.

 

Why so a weird way of doing that?

you build the ship outlined in the blueprint, blueprint self destroys afterwards.

Same "only one production run", less grieding potential.

And less lore weirdness: whythefark should my ship self deatroy when a copy gets built? What physical mechanism enforces that? Why cant i remove that mechanism? I built the copy, why are there physical effectors in it that i cant influence?

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Perhaps you can lease a contract for a certain amount ordered, because a person might want 1 ship while an organisation may need 20. My royalty system sounded less hassling. The devs' function can make things more... negotiative, more PM spam for a person to lower their price. :/


And blueprints will be probably "Saved" into a person's brain, because cerebral implants or whatever sci-fi mumno jumbo :P

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Perhaps you can lease a contract for a certain amount ordered, because a person might want 1 ship while an organisation may need 20. My royalty system sounded less hassling. The devs' function can make things more... negotiative, more PM spam for a person to lower their price. :/

And blueprints will be probably "Saved" into a person's brain, because cerebral implants or whatever sci-fi mumno jumbo :P

And your system makes that easier... how?

 

You still have to define which ships you are going to give them and have to give them access rights and collect your fees from them.

And all that with a quick and easy to use interface.

 

You outlined /nothing/ on how to handle that.

 

With the RDMS you may be able to set up a pool of identical right groups for different ships.

And leasing one away or leasing twenty away would just be typing a number in the "take x from pool" menu.

 

identical effort for both scenarios

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And your system makes that easier... how?

 

You still have to define which ships you are going to give them and have to give them access rights and collect your fees from them.

And all that with a quick and easy to use interface.

 

You outlined /nothing/ on how to handle that.

 

With the RDMS you may be able to set up a pool of identical right groups for different ships.

And leasing one away or leasing twenty away would just be typing a number in the "take x from pool" menu.

 

identical effort for both scenarios

Well, we'll have to see how it functions in-game and if player response is good. Everything looks good on paper :/

 

And my example took into account the possibility the in-game currency will be universal and not player/faction made. which is a bitch , as inflation is a real thing in MMOs.

 

If the RDMS gives the ability to update the royalty cost on a person creating your BP ship that would be amazing, IF the currency is universal.

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Erm... why not use the RDMS which is already going to be in the game?

 

The original blueprint owner has all the initial rights.

Exchanging royalities for a blueprint would be a general contract which exchanges blueprint read/execute access for a duty in an arbitary form, recurring payment, access to something, having to sing once a day for the blueprint owner...

 

A change in royalities would be a change in the duties, which the owner of the blueprint can do through the RDMS interface.

 

No arbitary npcs or timers required, no fixed currency required

 

The RDMS system works around powers associated with elements.  Blueprints would have to have certain powers (e.g. the power to copy it) inherent to them in order to be used in conjunction with the RDMS system, so her/his post is perfectly relevant.

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I would like this to be implemented similar to the mod Computercraft from minecraft:

 

-You can write scripts on disks (you can sell a script inside a disk, and that is an item ingame, not just virtual)

-You need to place more ControlUnits to use longer and more complex scripts.

-Control Unit/Computer: You insert the disk and choose which program to run (or when to run it). Needs to be attached by pipes or maybe a wifi network with all the elements that he needs to interact with. (otherwise like space engineers, it just need to be on the same construct).

-Wifi: an element that link a controlunit with several elements without the need of physical cables. It has limited range so you'd need several of those to create a network and create links over your entire construct (depending on the size).

-Screen: A block that makes appear text/information in the world (you can place multiple close together to create a bigger screen). So you can write stuff for your organization to read like "we need 2029123 wood logs, 312331 iron ore, ...) or whatever you want. 

-A WordpadElement (dunno how to name it) that you can use to write scripts. You insert the disk, interact with the element, and an ui opens for you to write your script. When you're done you save it on the disk, and then you can insert in in the Control Unit to run it. 

-CD reader: Instead of inserting CDs inside the "Wordpad element" or "Control Unit", maybe you'd need to have a CD Reader attached yo them, to just insert the CDs.

-A StorageUnit: it can store multiple CDs, like 4-6, and you would need several of those in case your ship runs various scripts.

-An Encrypter, that you can use to Encrypt your CDs, so they can't be readed or modified (they can't be inserted in anything beside a control unit), so you can just run them without knowing what's inside.

And more.

 

I'd like to have several elements (i don't think they are so hard to add to the game), instead of having a single control unit to do all the job. With this there would be a reason for a "scripter skill tree" in the game, you'd need the right equipment, and it could become a real profession. And ofc, you'd have a lot more elements that you would need to place in your ship, more stuff to fill all the rooms that otherwise would remain empty.   

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I have posted on this before, but I will discuss it here to bring up an unknown that is a bigger issue. I would like to see 2 types of BPs. Both should be doable with the tag system discussed. 

 

Taken from eve they are BPO and BPC. The Original has unlimited rights, make as many as you want. The Copy has a limited number of runs you can make from that copy. 1, 10, 100. Whatever you set. After that number is made it is gone. 

 

So maybe I would set a royalties system on the BPO, every use  from it you pay me xxx credits. Or I could sell you it out right for a large sum (in eve this typically cost the value of the ship it made, where a copy was less than 1/10, but it could be anything). Where as the copy would likely be a set price to buy it. Even if we dont get 2 distinct blueprint types it should be doable in the tag system. A BPO wouldnt have a use limit where a copy would. 

 

The bigger problem I have is how can you create the blueprints in the first place. If I make a ship from scratch it is assumed I can make any blueprint I want. But what if I didnt start the ship from scratch. Can I make my own blueprint of a ship I made from someone elses blueprint? If so that destroyes the market. Some people suggested that blueprints can only be made from the VR creation, but what about ships I make in the real world. Or VR creations that are then modified, as the larger ships will constantly be upgraded. 

 

If we then say only the creator can make the blueprint, what if my corp has a standard hull they give out for others to design on. There has to be a way for them to hand over blueprint creation rights. While it shouldnt be hard to do this, just another right you can give or sell, but it has to be put into the game. 

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The RDMS system works around powers associated with elements.  Blueprints would have to have certain powers (e.g. the power to copy it) inherent to them in order to be used in conjunction with the RDMS system, so her/his post is perfectly relevant.

I'm a "he" yo xD

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I have posted on this before, but I will discuss it here to bring up an unknown that is a bigger issue. I would like to see 2 types of BPs. Both should be doable with the tag system discussed. 

 

Taken from eve they are BPO and BPC. The Original has unlimited rights, make as many as you want. The Copy has a limited number of runs you can make from that copy. 1, 10, 100. Whatever you set. After that number is made it is gone. 

 

So maybe I would set a royalties system on the BPO, every use  from it you pay me xxx credits. Or I could sell you it out right for a large sum (in eve this typically cost the value of the ship it made, where a copy was less than 1/10, but it could be anything). Where as the copy would likely be a set price to buy it. Even if we dont get 2 distinct blueprint types it should be doable in the tag system. A BPO wouldnt have a use limit where a copy would. 

 

The bigger problem I have is how can you create the blueprints in the first place. If I make a ship from scratch it is assumed I can make any blueprint I want. But what if I didnt start the ship from scratch. Can I make my own blueprint of a ship I made from someone elses blueprint? If so that destroyes the market. Some people suggested that blueprints can only be made from the VR creation, but what about ships I make in the real world. Or VR creations that are then modified, as the larger ships will constantly be upgraded. 

 

If we then say only the creator can make the blueprint, what if my corp has a standard hull they give out for others to design on. There has to be a way for them to hand over blueprint creation rights. While it shouldnt be hard to do this, just another right you can give or sell, but it has to be put into the game.

 

Depending on the features of the RDMS you dont need separate objects for blueprints.

A BPC would just be a license to access a BP x times.

RDMS access could manage all of that.

All that would be needed from the game's side would be a "use unlimited" and "use once" power for blueprint access.

 

The RDMS could handle the rest.

 

As a thought would it be interesting if RDMS tags could be attached to objects.

Where posession of the object would give the player the rights the tag includes

Dunno what it would be useful for, but better have an useless idea than no idea but an use for one :V

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We will have to wait and see if the RDMS system will work as intended and how intuitive it is. I do not doubt you people are smart to come up with ideas on the topic, but if the RDMS is rocket science, the devs will have to appease the common denomiator and humanity is averagely uneducated on intuitionn. So, expect pretty colors if the RDMS is mind-bogglingly difficult, let alone lacking comprehensive terminologies and needing an overhauling.

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Hellooo griefing.

Steal blueprint, start building a copy, stuff disintegrates.

 

Why so a weird way of doing that?

you build the ship outlined in the blueprint, blueprint self destroys afterwards.

Same "only one production run", less grieding potential.

And less lore weirdness: whythefark should my ship self deatroy when a copy gets built? What physical mechanism enforces that? Why cant i remove that mechanism? I built the copy, why are there physical effectors in it that i cant influence?

And who said that blueprint is something physical to be stolen? It is snapshot of the ship that is bound to the ship owner and is used when ship gets repaired. As it is with voxel destructibility, damage changes form and function of the ship. Reverting damage to voxel requires blueprint.

 

One thing I forgot, this blueprint may or may not be destroyed with the ship, ship designer decides. Such way it is possible to trade 'single hull' ships, that have to be bought anew after every death, or 'multiple hull', that leave blueprint to be rebuilt after destruction, with no additional purchase.

 

Added changes into previous post, and it is becoming incomprehensible mess fast.

 

Cheers!

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And who said that blueprint is something physical to be stolen? It is snapshot of the ship that is bound to the ship owner and is used when ship gets repaired. As it is with voxel destructibility, damage changes form and function of the ship. Reverting damage to voxel requires blueprint.

One thing I forgot, this blueprint may or may not be destroyed with the ship, ship designer decides. Such way it is possible to trade 'single hull' ships, that have to be bought anew after every death, or 'multiple hull', that leave blueprint to be rebuilt after destruction, with no additional purchase.

Added changes into previous post, and it is becoming incomprehensible mess fast.

Cheers!

 

There are still better ways than to destroy the one ship that you are allowed to build.

Take for example the system the game from the depths uses.

As long as the object isnt manually removed from the game its blueprint always stays intact and the player can repair it back to full health.

The blueprint could give you the right to create and maintain one such ghost.

To "free" the ghost you have to destroy its current body.

 

Number limitations, repair capabilities, no grief potential.

 

 

And you can steal everything, and if its with social engineering.

Repair crews need build access to the blueprint, especially the ones aboard of larger ships.

How do you keep them from, even accidentally, creating a new instance of your ship and destroying it thus?

the ability to sabotage ships should be there, yes, but that should include proper actions to damage or take over objects and not a build action somewhere afar from the sabotaged object.

 

And what about stealing ships? With your one time blueprint variation its completely pointless, because the original owner can destroy your price with the press of a button.

Regardless of him having prepared proper self destruct devices that a boarding party could work around but with a "magic" ability that the attacker can do nothing against.

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@Cornflakes

I was writing about how we talking about same thing, but stupid mobile site decided to reload into full version and ate my text.

 

In short: every object has bound blueprint that is automatically transferred with ship ownership and no other way.

Repairs is a good point. I feel right delegation is right way to do this though. Engineers would have hull-modify and blueprint-view access only to do repairs.

 

This whole self-destruct on copy thing indeed doesn't have good reasons to be there. Instead, we will just prohibit building while ship is alive.

 

Cheers!

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@Cornflakes


Your concerns are valid, which I why I suggested the Real Time Strategy way of building a construct, any construct, you bought the Blueprint to. You pay a predefined royalty check when you want to replicate it and the owner of the blueprint can negae the blueprint if the guy who bought it turns against the creator's organisation. I mean, ain't nobody want to be like Tony Stark on Afghanistan, the moment of realising, "I'm so good at building death machines, I techincally killed myself".

Peace.

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@Cornflakes

I was writing about how we talking about same thing, but stupid mobile site decided to reload into full version and ate my text.

 

In short: every object has bound blueprint that is automatically transferred with ship ownership and no other way.

Repairs is a good point. I feel right delegation is right way to do this though. Engineers would have hull-modify and blueprint-view access only to do repairs.

 

This whole self-destruct on copy thing indeed doesn't have good reasons to be there. Instead, we will just prohibit building while ship is alive.

 

Cheers!

Yay consensus! (Aka i made people think in the same way as i think is correct :D:P )

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