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Neopolitan

Factions, reputation, tags, neutrality, stargates, markets

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Long have we waited, and longer still shall we continue to wait.

 

My friends, in this chaotic world we find ourselves in on Alioth there are no empires or factions left standing.

Due to certain events it seems that no force is capable of establishing itself as the leading directive over us humans.

And as such, there will be no NPC factions for us to join as you would in E.VE.

 

So all these independent guilds of any style, little corporations to giant factions, are going to be using market nodes. It hasn't been well defined how a market node will work exactly, if they are going to be regional, who decides the regions, if they just have a sphere of influence that makes some some sense but not entirely, for instance can multiple Market Units be placed inside of each others sphere of influence.

Will the market units communicate with each other prices, is that something players could link together if the Market Unit owners are friendly.

 

And on the Note of the market units, how could players from a different guild peacefully go and buy something from some other guild without just being blown up on sight for being an unknown.

 

I'd like to merge the ideas of E.VE and SW.G, with a reputation similar to the first, and a status declaration system similar to the second.

Leaving it to guilds to decide what a good reputation is, or even adjusting it by regions or specific Territory Units. Naturally pirates wouldn't care to obey the laws, but they'll also have to establish their own networks and way to get to any said system, Rogue Gates essentially.

 

Anyhow, allowing guilds to establish these settings, they can have tags automatically apply to players to come through their stargates.

Just for instance, you are this trader and you fly up to this other guilds Stargate and it asks you:

1.) Do you want to purchase faction reputation

2.) Turn in faction tokens for reputation

3.) Use gate (requires X reputation level)

 

So you go through the gate and are automatically declared a non-hostile player by whomever administrated that gate, because they have it setup to do so. Now that you have this non-hostile tag (akin to being a On-Leave player in SW.G) you can't be attacked by players unless you commit some sort of crime.

Now you are free to join up and do missions from their terminals.

Use their market units without fear of being murdered. etc.

 

By allowing players guild to use this variable that could be adjusted by region, or TU, and thus creating the allusion of Security Ratings throughout player empires.

(Stargate) <Any Player> <action (use)> <requirement> <reputation> <greater than or equal to (+-0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10)>

 

A major benefit would be that Factions can organize the construction of the expensive stargates, and it grants access to a shared network.

The bonus of a Faction, or a Nation / Empire running the networks over just independent guilds, is the comfort of knowing there is a standard and uniform central authority running the gate networks. Not just some pirate group running a gate that's free on one side, and then charges a toll to go back.

 

------

An idea for distributing guild tokens

 

-Guilds be able to create a blanket tag for <Any Player> <Kill> <Target> <With> <Reputation> <Below> <Amount (+-1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10)> <Receives> <Item (Guild Token)> <By Mail>

-------

 

It would be really nice to have some real information on just how guilds are going to be able to function.

  • Do you intend to create a graphical user interface to easily manage the relations, hierarchy, legates, tags, and options of guilds.
  • Will we really be able to use the tags and RDMS to create a guild that work akin to a Nation.
  • Is it too early for NovaQuark to provide an Alpha example of the options in the RDMS, and if tags will be player made or chosen from a list of premade ones?

Some of the things that are important to making these systems work, as I believe it, is to allow players to assemble all the building blocks themselves. Having no limit on the number of guilds and players in an organisation.

And creating a mix of the RDMS and Tags that allows players to assemble virtually any link they can come up with.

 

Before we players are able to finalize our ideas on what, might or might not be possible though. We need to know about those Tags.

If you are going to create the list of tags then can a NQ post be made on the options players would like to see in the RDMS and Tags.

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Interesting questions. I intended to setup my own tag systems for FOF and use them in my defense. I didn't think of an overreaching player group, sort of like the NPC's in Eve forming very quickly. But I guess it is inevitable.

 

First, you mention being able to purchase them and go through a Stargate, but what if they are close eneough or just prefer to use FTL? I'd suggest a nearby beacon that is out of the range of the market. Any defenses there are set to only fire when fired upon, allowing anyone to purchase whatever token/tag system you impliment. And the market defenses could be only fire on reds.

 

But to make this work, the one thing I am am uncertain of is automatic tag assignment. The rest seems like you will be able to manage with the tag system described. I know I can contract with you using tags, you pay me x amount and I give you a neutral tag, permanent or a timer, so you can enter the area without the turrets firing. But can I setup an automatic terminal that issues them somewhere?

Will it be flexible eneough to detect when you attack a friendly and automatically revoke a tag, possibly issuing a new red status tag? I know you can set surities, but how flexible are they? Can it tell that entity A fired upon entity B, entity Bs owner is part of corp xxx, assign entity As owner red status towards corp xxx? What about ramming? Is that an attack or a slight bump.

 

Im glad I'm not the only one thinking of this system. I can't wait to get more info from the Devs. I have so many have finished ideas, or systems thatay or may not work because I'm unsure if some of the crucial details needed are even possible.

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Yeah, I'm with 'DD' on this one, your idea is very good but there are some circumstances that would cause issues, 'ramming' was an example, and we just don't have enough information to even consider if any of it was possible or not.

 

If there is a autotag system, I would prefer a way to detect whether or not the player has some system active on their ship, rather than a 'fire upon fired' condition. So that you would be able to set up a defence system that warns the player at distance X to turn off their weapons or be fired upon and if they don't turn them off or reactivate them inside distance Y they are attacked by turrets.

 

As for the market system I would imagine that you could choose a 'Everyone' tag to put on a station so that everyone can use it or restrict it to certain 'specific tags' to allow only people you want to access it. The thing I would like to know is one of the things you mentioned, can you have multiple market networks next to each other.

 

If you can then that could lead to a 'internal' market system for player guilds and a external trading market for outsiders to purchase/sell to that guild specifically. There would also allow for a 'level of tag' market, where the higher your tag level the higher the market you can access, so you can trade the highest materials around safely or create a somewhat 'guild bank' system giving only guild member access.

 

If you can't have multiple market networks then the above idea of 'market tag levels' just disappears, but another thing I thought about is the sphere of influence of a market system and pirate hackers. Would someone be able to hack into a market system to see the goods before attempting to rob it, or hack into a market system that's being used by a guild for a guild bank just by having a 'rouge market station' on their ship that they use as a 'market hacking station' something like that.

 

It will be interesting to see more information about DU and the specifics and fine points of a lot of the systems to see what is actually possible or not. Just like Lua, we know there is lua coding but what are the limitations to the code, can we do anything or are we limited by dev made functions?

 

I long for the day of knowing all of what DU offers.

 

nora,

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I love the idea of organisation or player having a kind personal reputation "currency" which can be earned through any means deemed worthy by the organisation.  I think that is an excellent way for people to keep track of friends and enemies.  Obviously individual players will not have as detailed a system as big organisations, but nothing should stop them.

 

Remember though, that stargates are something for down the line, not something anyone is going to have for quite some time.  Let's say an organisation has a radar units on and around their territory and areas of operation.  Whenever they detect a player it checks if they have any organisation-issued tags.  Everything up to that point is possible from the information we have so far.  The act of giving tags to other entities (entity = player or organisation) has not been described beyond the word "give".  But I think it would be safe to assume that there will be automated way to give tags to entities, whether it is built in to the game, or preferably using some kind of element, say a Policy Unit (bad name, sorry).  So Radar Units are all set up with Policy Units and a simple Control Unit assigns tags to unknown players.  This tag could be anything the organisation wants it to be.  It could have a whole load of sub-tags within to it that deal with, as you say, donating credits or killing enemies of the empire, etc.

 

Another idea - a Broadcast Unit.  Something that issues automated messages to players like in the example you give (give us money in exchange for rep) but removed from stargates.  Similarly, very large, but welcoming, organisations can set up offices at entry points to their territory where they deal with visitors in person.

 

Regarding how tags will work, they will all be associated with powers, duties and warranties, if you recall.  Any tag can be created that grants a power to an entity given that certain duties are fulfilled, and the tag can be revoked subject to warranties being fulfilled.

 

Regarding Market Units, they haven't said anything about two Market Units needing to be at least a certain distance apart and I don't see why it should be that why.  What they have said is that you will only be able to see what is in a local Market Unit (one that you are actually standing next or that is within a certain radius? can't remember which is true).  But there will also be Information Units which can be networked together to get information on distant markets.  Beyond that we have little information.

 

Market Units will have a set of predefined powers associated with them.  I imagine one of them will be the power to trade at the market.  So the owner of the unit can grant or revoke this right as he/she sees fit (and hopefully automatically with a system like I outlined above).  It would be cool if you could dynamically assign tax rates to certain people depending on which tags they have or how much reputation they have.

 

I think I've waffled semi-coherently long enough for now :) 

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As far as I know collision wont work as we might think it will, probably bumping, or otherwise being pushed apart if you come close to another object.

Nyzaltar

 Keep in mind that as much as the dev team is for realism, a limit will be drawn where realism can unbalance the game and/or to where the current technology can push us. While orbital combat is feasible with our current technology, "collision combat" (to ram a ship/asteroid in another ship or a planet) is like a pandora box: we are totally aware that some other games using voxels have made possible this kind of gameplay. But if you look closely, this has always been with small constructs and never in a massively multiplayer universe. This is not a coincidence. "Collision Combat" is very, VERY expensive in terms of calculation power. It's proportional to the size of involved constructs. It can become a lot worse with a growing number of involved constructs.

 

I believe a system that requires you to retract your hard-points is likely to be doable with the tags. It would be good to know if there is a radius tag, what its range limit is.

To set it up, it would have to be able to interact with someone a little bit further in range than the longest range weapon.

 

 

Another idea - a Broadcast Unit.  Something that issues automated messages to players like in the example you give (give us money in exchange for rep) but removed from stargates.  Similarly, very large, but welcoming, organisations can set up offices at entry points to their territory where they deal with visitors in person.

 

 

Everyone here is right on the usages of these systems. You are correct, I just got caught up in talking about stargates, I actually meant to say it in a way as those were Tags that the owner had applied to the gate, so when someone approached it, a prompt would come up asking them what they wanted to do.

And I do like that idea about "broadcast units" I wonder if it could already be possible to take a control unit, and set up script or commands in such a way, that it will function like this broadcaster?

 

I look forward to a mass of civilizations fighting out on the surface of Alioth until orbital spaceflight is re-achieved. This game is giving me very strong Alpha Centauri feeling the more i learn about it... well spare the mind worms, and Miriam.

 

I almost feel like I've asked this or said it before...

I believe tags should be able to be structured in such a way that people won't even know they have a tag on them.

I don't know how else to get the idea across so here my example.

 

Faction has a agency that monitors for players that go below a certain threshold in faction rep.

For actions they commit that lower faction rep further, a "bounty" amount is applied per action, and is accumulative.

Yet, where is this tag stored, is it applied to the criminal player?

Is it stored internally in the faction at large and the first player to meet all the conditions, faction or not, is issued the reward for killing them or doing whatever the tag wanted.

 

Will it bog down the servers to have tags that are game wide, and have listening conditions waiting for players to complete an action?

Maybe a way to get around it will be the creation of a unique object when you kill a player. Like Ears in Diablo II, or I believe you get corpses in E.VE. And those could be used to satisfy Bounty / Kill Claim rewards.

 

-----

 

I enjoy the short stories you make Devis, but I just can't know what the actual implementation of FTL will be. Its possible they could release the game with no FTL drives at all. I fully believe players will use FTL to get around having to use stargates, and that pirates and invaders will send a Ship in to drop a FTL beacon for the rest of their fleet to jump to.

 

-----

They may make us play for a few months on Alioth and its Solar System, with anything beyond the edges simply being too far to get to.

It would be hilarious fun though if players spent weeks and make a Colony ship, no FTL and set sail for a nearby solar system. I would find it even better if the Resurrection nodes are also a rare technology and no players can make them at the start. So they would all have to load up and set sail together on this ship, and spend a week of game time making it to this other solar system.

If someone died... they would have to spawn at the ark ship, that would be hardcore.

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Thinking about this more i'm not sure if i like autotags or not, i just had the thought about stealth and the chance that the autotag thing could make it not work given that we can script our own lua and such.

 

I wouldn't mind a 'net' that you have to go through to get the tag but a auto-tagging function could be used to detect stealth players maybe, especially if they are trying to sneak up on you.

 

If there was some form of autotag it would have to incorporate a system that means spys and hackers and the like would not be at a disadvantage due to the 'auto' part of it where the user doesn't need to tag them. 

 

nora,

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I understand that concern I'm not sure how to go about implementing a solution as of yet though.

 

Possibly the people that want to be secretive can create some kind of anti detection device, or jamming devices.

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I understand that concern I'm not sure how to go about implementing a solution as of yet though.

 

Possibly the people that want to be secretive can create some kind of anti detection device, or jamming devices.

 

Jamming devices would be nice, would make a interesting thing to have when there are scanners and radars available for the people to track you with. You could go a little further and have a signal manipulation device or something, where if you are scanned (depending on your equipment or level) you could look like a asteroid or space junk floating around instead of like a ship waiting to pounce on it's prey :)

 

nora,

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Saffi,

I had forgotten the no ramming thing, but possibly in a few years.

 

I hope I can get my corpse collection back. I had a few hundred in cans in Eve and always kept one with me in my cargohold for company.

 

There will be FTL, just likely not in alpha since it will be a single system. They may focus on imimenting other things first.

 

 

@nora,

 

I would assume the game mechanics worked that if a sensor couldn't detect you are there then the tag system wouldn't work either. It should be the tag systems scanner has to detect someone to tag them. But I like the idea of jammers for things like that, more ecm than just cloaks.

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In Dual Universe, FTL travel will be the slower method of traveling between stars. It will require time and resources (fuel). It will be primarily used when traveling to unexplored star systems.
The faster method of travel between two star systems is the use of Stargates. Stargates will allow near instantaneous travel between two developed star systems.
"Going from one solar system to another for the first time will take time and fuel (we don't know yet what will be the time range yet from one system to another).

 

That piece is from the Official wiki under Interstellar Travel.

 

Once players do achieve the first warp or FTL engines I'm sure it will take a while.

With the fuel being the range limiter it will take a while to really branch out into the univers.

 

However, One thing that perturbs me here is they say, specifically, "Faster Method of Travel between TWO  solar systems.

 

It is my sincere hope they are willing to alter the system to allow for gates that allow you to travel MANY systems in distance.

If its a matter of making sure people or empires cant move ships across the game world too quickly. Implement a debuff that prevents you from using another stargate for a brief period of time, anything but jumping through 47 gates system by system.

 

It's such a serious drag, I'd rather be a hermit on a barren world than deal with billions of stargate jumps.

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I wrote that wiki.  So, don't read too much into it.  There hasn't been any clarification on whether a stargate will be "multi-gate".  I just rephrased a post from Nyzaltar.

 

I'll remove the word "two", until we know for sure.

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I don't see the problem with autotagging and stealth.  As DevisDevine says, if you're not detected then you can't be tagged.  The tagging system should be a management tool, nothing more.

 

I see three types of prohibition scenarios with the tagging system (I've mentioned this elsewhere I think so I'll be brief).

 

1.  Hard coded - without the tag/power you cannot perform the action.  This would be things like withdrawing credits from a bank account.

2.  Secure - without the tag/power, the only way you can perform the action is by hacking.  This would be things like opening locked doors or containers, or accessing ship systems.

3.  Insecure - nothing stops you from performing the action whether you have the tag or not.  This would be things like using prohibited goods or travelling, building or mining on a patch of land.

 

@Saffi

Awesome scenario of flying out into the distance.  The great reward of being far far away from the rest of the crowd and free to build up wealth and power is well worth the risk.  Only problem is getting more players to join your organisation!

 

About multi-jumping gates.  I think the game would have to get truly massive for this to be a problem.  If you want to travel from one end of inhabited space to the other, it should take a long time for many reasons.  Having said that if you have literally thousands of inhabited systems connected by jump gates it becomes a bit crazy.  Before it gets to that point you'd need a faster form of travel.  My solution would not be to make it possible to have multiple jumps or further jumps, but to "invent" a new type of FTL.  Say a hyperspace drive.  You can go at a million times the speed of light, so you're travelling on a galactic scale.  Drawback is the slowest it can go is 500,000c and you need to plan and execute your route very carefully to avoid flying into stars or exiting hyperspace in the middle of nowhere.  But this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and I'm just getting carried away.  I mean how many players would you need to inhabit hundreds of solar systems?

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I don't disagree with you that it should take a healthy amount of time for people to get around.

 

If stargates are intended to move players through a fold in timespace and have a relatively speaking limited range of around 10 solar systems.

 

perhaps a future technology in the game could be "Darkgates" that move you between two points outside of timespace and reality.

the drawback of them would be, besides being very double expensive to make, that when you use them a player recieves a phase distortion debuff that slows down their regular warp / ftl, and they recieve and do less damage.

 

Even if that idea is rejected, my main point isnt how far stargates or whatever can let you go.

I want to prevent massive amounts of re-loading the game. It used to be one of the worst disconnects of EVE. Jump to gate, warp, loading screen. loading screen loading screen. and so forth. They covered it up with the new system. but now you just stare at the walls of warped space instead of the load bars.

 

I would like to believe its possible to find a workaround that doesn't involve spending half of all playtime moving from point A to point B.

 

----

This may not seem related to that, but I know they speak of using fuel sources for things. I unaware if they've specified anything beyond saying they don't plan for resources to re-spawn, however will you be able to scoop energy like you do in Elite Dangerous, is it infinite or does it actually deplete the suns reserve when you scoop it.

 

If we build a "star-forge" like construct, from star wars, and just start siphoning all the suns energy will it change phases and eventually go nova or destabilize.

 

In this age the game takes place in with crazy new almost alien technology compared to the human race... do we still not yet have Bio Engineering down to a point we could have laboratories that refine fuels from plankton and bacteria or stuff.

 

It might be time intensive, but renewable fuel will be good. Naturally occurring fuel swamps are fine, but eventually... Eventually players would have to send team out beyond the reaches of the empires, past the outer rim, past the dark sectors, and out into "the Beyond" just for a swamp harvesting operation, to keep civilization operating.

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In Dual Universe, FTL travel will be the slower method of traveling between stars. It will require time and resources (fuel). It will be primarily used when traveling to unexplored star systems.

The faster method of travel between two star systems is the use of Stargates. Stargates will allow near instantaneous travel between two developed star systems.

"Going from one solar system to another for the first time will take time and fuel (we don't know yet what will be the time range yet from one system to another).

 

That piece is from the Official wiki under Interstellar Travel.

 

Once players do achieve the first warp or FTL engines I'm sure it will take a while.

With the fuel being the range limiter it will take a while to really branch out into the univers.

 

However, One thing that perturbs me here is they say, specifically, "Faster Method of Travel between TWO  solar systems.

 

It is my sincere hope they are willing to alter the system to allow for gates that allow you to travel MANY systems in distance.

If its a matter of making sure people or empires cant move ships across the game world too quickly. Implement a debuff that prevents you from using another stargate for a brief period of time, anything but jumping through 47 gates system by system.

 

It's such a serious drag, I'd rather be a hermit on a barren world than deal with billions of stargate jumps.

 

Well as one of the guys said, he wrote that. But I would have assumed 'between two systems' would mean just a gate to single gate system, not only one system appart. I fully expect wormholes to beable to go much further than one system. It could be they have a range of so many lightyears, or it coud be they have an energy or fuel cost based on distance to use. Since theoretically if you have the energy wormholes have no range. 

 

 

I think system to system gates will anoy people as much as it does in eve. Afterall the point of stargates are that they are nearly instantaneous travel but come at a high cost. 

 

I don't see the problem with autotagging and stealth.  As DevisDevine says, if you're not detected then you can't be tagged.  The tagging system should be a management tool, nothing more.

 

I see three types of prohibition scenarios with the tagging system (I've mentioned this elsewhere I think so I'll be brief).

 

1.  Hard coded - without the tag/power you cannot perform the action.  This would be things like withdrawing credits from a bank account.

2.  Secure - without the tag/power, the only way you can perform the action is by hacking.  This would be things like opening locked doors or containers, or accessing ship systems.

3.  Insecure - nothing stops you from performing the action whether you have the tag or not.  This would be things like using prohibited goods or travelling, building or mining on a patch of land.

 

@Saffi

Awesome scenario of flying out into the distance.  The great reward of being far far away from the rest of the crowd and free to build up wealth and power is well worth the risk.  Only problem is getting more players to join your organisation!

 

About multi-jumping gates.  I think the game would have to get truly massive for this to be a problem.  If you want to travel from one end of inhabited space to the other, it should take a long time for many reasons.  Having said that if you have literally thousands of inhabited systems connected by jump gates it becomes a bit crazy.  Before it gets to that point you'd need a faster form of travel.  My solution would not be to make it possible to have multiple jumps or further jumps, but to "invent" a new type of FTL.  Say a hyperspace drive.  You can go at a million times the speed of light, so you're travelling on a galactic scale.  Drawback is the slowest it can go is 500,000c and you need to plan and execute your route very carefully to avoid flying into stars or exiting hyperspace in the middle of nowhere.  But this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and I'm just getting carried away.  I mean how many players would you need to inhabit hundreds of solar systems?

 

I think your 3 categories are good. should cover everything, as long as we can LUA script auto tag systems. 

 

Having a hyperspace drive is interesting, but at least in the theoretical world of SciFi, stargate systems are supposed to be faster. Now it could be cheaper in energy cost, and also doesn't require prebuilt infrastructure. So it could be a goto for explorers and alliances who want to get away and be isolated for a while.

 

I like the idea that you have to set the end point and cant change it, but this fits in more with the idea of warp drive. You preplan your path, it cant be interdicted, and you cant drop out early. Now this tech doesnt really have a reason to give it a minimum range, but its fiction so why not. With eneough energy there is also no limit to this technologies speed, I believe it was stated that it much be a integer multiple of C, but I dont see why. 

 

Hyperspace allows you to travel faster than C because you are traveling in an alternate dimension, presumably one with shorter dimensions than our own. Now if your ship is folding the space you travel in, this could allow for different drives to have vastly different travel speed, and it not solely be a multiple of what you can travel under sublight in normal space. So you can slowly develop a faster and faster FTL drive to go further, faster, and without gates. I think your normal sublight speed should have an impact on how fast this method is as well, since you are still moving though the alternate dimention, just at some multiple of the normal. But you can drop out of it when you please, in fact if you cant provide the power or something breaks you would drop out wherever. 

 

Slipstream has always been an odd one to me, it seems to be a mix of hyperspace and wormhole travel. If I had to choose, I would suggest this one for your idea on Hyperspace. Predefined end points, and it could be said that to form a slipstream path that ends near its starting point either has enormous energy cost or it collapses itself for whateveer reason. 

 

But again we can give whatever reason to it we wish since its scifi. I am just curious what the game mechanics will be. 

 

 

And also, thats my plan, jumping away into the void with my group, returning with a massive fleet. 

 

I don't disagree with you that it should take a healthy amount of time for people to get around.

 

If stargates are intended to move players through a fold in timespace and have a relatively speaking limited range of around 10 solar systems.

 

perhaps a future technology in the game could be "Darkgates" that move you between two points outside of timespace and reality.

the drawback of them would be, besides being very double expensive to make, that when you use them a player recieves a phase distortion debuff that slows down their regular warp / ftl, and they recieve and do less damage.

 

Even if that idea is rejected, my main point isnt how far stargates or whatever can let you go.

I want to prevent massive amounts of re-loading the game. It used to be one of the worst disconnects of EVE. Jump to gate, warp, loading screen. loading screen loading screen. and so forth. They covered it up with the new system. but now you just stare at the walls of warped space instead of the load bars.

 

I would like to believe its possible to find a workaround that doesn't involve spending half of all playtime moving from point A to point B.

 

----

This may not seem related to that, but I know they speak of using fuel sources for things. I unaware if they've specified anything beyond saying they don't plan for resources to re-spawn, however will you be able to scoop energy like you do in Elite Dangerous, is it infinite or does it actually deplete the suns reserve when you scoop it.

 

If we build a "star-forge" like construct, from star wars, and just start siphoning all the suns energy will it change phases and eventually go nova or destabilize.

 

In this age the game takes place in with crazy new almost alien technology compared to the human race... do we still not yet have Bio Engineering down to a point we could have laboratories that refine fuels from plankton and bacteria or stuff.

 

It might be time intensive, but renewable fuel will be good. Naturally occurring fuel swamps are fine, but eventually... Eventually players would have to send team out beyond the reaches of the empires, past the outer rim, past the dark sectors, and out into "the Beyond" just for a swamp harvesting operation, to keep civilization operating.

 

I think several of us agree, it should take some time to get around, but the constant jump after jump manotomy of Eve is what drives me crazy. Warp Jump Warp Jump Warp Jump Warp Jump, 50 times over 2 hours is insane. 

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from where i see it stargates should have a range stretching trough a whole galaxy, but if you want to get to another galaxy... maybe darkgates are the way, or some other form of travel. Since if you watched SGU till the end then you'll know that the deep space between galaxy is way more dangerous ( you dont see black holes because you dont see any celestial bodies being absorbed since there are none) and often more vast, so the distance could be greater than the diameter of a galaxy, ofcourse depending on what galaxy size you compare it with.

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