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PVP Changes - The Round Table


Anderson Williams
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So i have been pushing for weeks-Months for NQ to have a PVP round table with those of us who PVP so we can really try to assist in helping pvp foster and Grow. Mostly ignored, whatever I trust JC/Entropy/NQ are doing the best they can. And I am aware the rules for the IDEA box is one idea per thread but this would take like 8 threads so consider this an IDEA for pvp balancing. After Entropy's Interview with Spreeezy, a GREAT interview I felt more excitement over the coming potential changes to PVP. Changes that make sense, changes that will inspire diversity in pvp.. and punish the 'Build Space filler' type construction. This is logical and more accurate, the thiccer and bigger a bebe the easier it is to hit it.

Anyways..

Entropy raised a good concern, and one we should all be leary of, how to prevent the L core and Medium cores from just being the end all be all for pvp. Ideally a Fleet of Large Cores would be the maximum fleet you would field, but it makes little sense for them not to have support. Its the equivalent of having a Capital Fleet in Eve that can do it all. That shouldn't be the case. The equation is simple...

The larger it is, the Worse it Preforms... But the more powerful. With the Opposite being true.

For instance, Large weapons should preform like Battleship weapons. They should gain labels, attributes, even Designs that suit that function.
- Large Railguns, should have worse tracking than they do now, and a MUCH slower rate of fire. The larger the gun, the slower the rate of fire. But the Damage should be catastrophic. So for instance, if a Ship is flying, lets say a Small Core with low crossection at say 5,000km/hr at a high transversal... the Large Railguns should almost NEVER be able to hit it. Other variables like overall distance, speed of the ship firing the weapon, and so on would be taken into effect. The further/closer having a modifer for the ability to hit the ship, sort of a Sweet spot.
- Missiles should focus more like Torpedos, with horrific tracking, that basically are only best fired at a target of large or Medium Core size. The launchers would be Labeled, like Capital Torpedoes or whatever. They have a super small magazine, maybe starting at 1 and expanding to 4. These weapons would have a SUPER long reload, but if that torpedo hits... its devistating. They would LOOK like torpedo launchers, not just a bland size edited missile launcher. Instead of having Mediums be smaller Torpedo launchers, have them function more like Cruise missile Launchers, with a Look to match. Lower yield than L weapons, maybe a larger magazine, and say longer range, better tracking but just don't pack anywhere near the strength of the Torpedos. Small missiles could be more like anti-S/XS core weapons. Large cores could use these as an attempt at PDWs, while XS/S do the same thing with the missiles. Larger magazine, reasonable range, but less damage. Tracking would be MUCH MUCH Higher. XS missiles would function almost like 'dumb firing rockets'. Obviously lock and fire but with a tiny window to hit, and a large window to miss. They would look and function the part.
- Lasers same thing, some super powerful low damage radius, but extreme damage area that functions as a Cutting laser or something to that effect. These weapons would serve some sort of purpose that they just dont now.

These sort of changes are just related to L weapons, but they would continue down the line. Cannons would function like HUGE heavy Cannon type weapons with incredible damage at close range, but you would have to time, pick your shots because of reload. Where as XS cannons would be like Vulcan Gattling guns, that serve a role.. anti-XS close range weapons, with magazines and function that SUITS the part. These XS would be almost fixed weapons, for the missiles, railguns, lasers as well. Ships wouldn't just orbit or joust, they would line up to fire at each other. The tactics associated would be so much more effective. These changes balance weapon systems to make a more dynamic role for weapons and combat tactics. It won't just be XS cube wins all, because XS cube will be IMMENSELY easy to hit and kill. And large/S/M core cubes would have the same issues, especially if ships have to balance fitting/power grid between engines/shields/weapons.
 

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Sure These Points are valid and im Like 90% Sure NQ found those already but now comes the real question:

 

How do you prevent an L or later on XL core to Turn into a super massive Point Defense System?

 

Like all your Points are valid though If those large weapons are so devastating you Just need a few to be efficient in Combat so the Natural answer to the empty space question in those cores would be " guard against small Shit" so in the end you have a devastating weapons Plattform with enough small guns to hold its ground even against enemy small Support

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40 minutes ago, Eshthar said:

Sure These Points are valid and im Like 90% Sure NQ found those already but now comes the real question:

 

How do you prevent an L or later on XL core to Turn into a super massive Point Defense System?

 

Like all your Points are valid though If those large weapons are so devastating you Just need a few to be efficient in Combat so the Natural answer to the empty space question in those cores would be " guard against small Shit" so in the end you have a devastating weapons Plattform with enough small guns to hold its ground even against enemy small Support

 Simple, with the Multiples higher damage per weapon level, like Large-Xs the L core with XS weapons wont have enough points to commit enough weapons to Larger weapons. So A true Anti-Capital ship L core will tear it a new one.

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That doesnt Stop the L core from being immune to enemy Support If wished thats the whole Problem 

 

And for the Love of god i pray NQ doesnt Take too much from EVEs balancing cause its awefull and CCP is trying to fix it basically since start so not really the Thing you wanna use as Rolemodel 

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However weapons work it must come with changes to radar, there should be strengths and weaknesses for the various radar sizes so large isn't simply the right choice for all situations. A small radar should lock on quickly have low signature chosen for hit and run attacks or point defence it should open up flying styles that give reasons to use weapons like cannons, While a large would be the obvious choice for range trade off should be lock time and deadzone for ships that get close 

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1 hour ago, Eshthar said:

That doesnt Stop the L core from being immune to enemy Support If wished thats the whole Problem 

 

And for the Love of god i pray NQ doesnt Take too much from EVEs balancing cause its awefull and CCP is trying to fix it basically since start so not really the Thing you wanna use as Rolemodel 

I dont nessecary think thats true. You would need a larger ship to take on a Larger ship. Granted, without a Anti-Capital ship fighter... it will be almost impossible to kill L cores with XS weapons.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good points. XS and S cores would ideally have a role in fleet combat, even when L cores are on the field. While I don't think a smaller core should be able to 1 v 1 a larger core, it should be able to harass or cripple the larger ship.  It would be cool to see smaller cores getting in close and disrupting engines or weapons. 

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I can See how XS and S cores come in handy as intruder vehicles so you Just Arm them with enough to crack Open a door and have the Guys do their worst otherwise crippling ships is tricky in Terms of balancing as this could get Out of Hand in large Engagements real quick 

Take EvE as a reference Here where new Players get custom F2P doctrines that specialize in ewar and do massive damage to hostile fleets by Just supporting the Main fleet.

 

 

Still i feel a Battleship on a L core should be a Statement on the Battlefield and Push Back the smaller cores ( XS & S ) unless they have a significant Numbers Advantage ( Like 50 : 1 )

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@NQ-Naunet   Unless its a public event, I don't think Ill be there. It looks like Williams is saying much of what I would bring up though.  Ill cheer from the sidelines. 

 

Edit: Looks like it is a public event though Ill be working through it. Ill certainly watch the replay. 

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