So, construction buisness...

[le_souriceau]

How do you expect it will unfold? And how patterns of possible profit will be arranged?

 

First of all, lets leave ships alone for a moment. This is about old good solid ground buildings -- bases, cities, palaces of rich and huts of poor.

 

Timeline -- moment when 1) nda goes 2) last wipe done 

 

Here is my take.

 

> At begining every org will have "leader with grand vision" or some kind "chief achitect". At this point it will be very hard to sell anything. Because they will think that they absolutly good by themeselfs. 

> Bulilds aimed for PR and skill demostration will start popping off. Some from orgs, some from unaffiliated players.

> After a while it will be painfullly obvious that some orgs stuck with incompetent builders (and this is often paired with incompetent leadership). Symptoms predictable -- naive gigantism, lack of focus (idea to be everything in same time), slow progress and just ugly result (sometimes to level of joke). 

> Orgs (at least more peaceful ones) will become increasingly interested in aquiring more quility builds for PR and prestige show off. Indeed they firstly try to "make" good builders members to have their skill for free.

> Rich bored players or just connoisseurs of fine architerture will start patronizing exeptional builders (by hiring them for special projects or buying their works).

! Here time for serious buisness. Projects for hefty sums of in-game money and even DACs are possibility.

 

X There is some orgs concieved as specialized in disigning and buiding things. Problem is same -- no one needs you services here if you are not like head above them in skill. I predict some of those orgs will fail miserably. 

 

> But strongest builders (and builder groups) survive and prosper in increasingly fierce and agressive competion. At top tier it will boil down to small group of prima-donnas (mostly entangled in building cold war).

> Success also dependant of how unique style of builder/s will be. Lots of skyscrapper futuristic cities expected (because this is easiet way in setting-materials-wise) , but few of them will be good. Most -- boring glass boxes.

 

= To be payed for you buiding skills you must be EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD,  for anything else orgs will gladly just use "free" labour of their slaves members.

 

Sorry if my projection is little bit cynical : ) Also for english. 

 

What is your take ot subject?

[BaileyVandenbroek]

We can sell blueprints so don't worry there will be a real estate and architecture economy running haha.

[Armedwithwings]

Here's my 2 cents on your train of thought...

 

On launch, Alpha testers with their already functional blueprint designs will hold an edge over the common folk.

Due to lack of experience, new players will shift focus on the market and make the "Alpha blueprint owners" a decent penny.

Most of the stuff you'll be seeing flying around are most likely designs created during Alpha tests.

Getting to make an actual space worthy ship takes time and on the race to leave Alioth, time is of the essence!

 

Those reputable builders will always be popular candidates among orgs, and that's to be expected.

Despite offering their skillsets to the cause, corporations will view them as a source of income.

After all, having a certain profession in anything is always expected to be rewarded at an equivalent price, whether it's quanta, DACs or even status.

Many people often find loyalty to that and act accordingly.

 

But when it boils down, there's no right or wrong way to play the game.

Poacher orgs are always gonna be a thing and whether anyone wants to be a part of them that's their own choice really.

[Aaron Cain]

Let me add a few cents,

 

Day one, we will see crappy bases springing into life everywhere, no design but effective. These will stay there till about a week or two. After that some orgs will start to build new bases not from blueprints as they discover that blueprints need so much inventory space to place it will need a whole base to place a bp one.

Most bases will be practical and efficient, beauty will be from efficiency and only a few orgs will build for beauty.

 

Who will survive? I have no idea but in general the people who can build with least materials, fastest and most effective will survive. The people who build gothic palaces will probably perish fast if they start doing that at day one. If they however first fly to a sanctuary moon they have a shot.

 

Leaders and Orgs?

There will be Drama, loads of it

Some leaders will think their people will listen to their demands but when day one arrives and the promised PvP ship is not there, they will leave before telling goodby.

Some leaders will be more friendly but lacking charm and vision and also the members there will be gone soon, or take over.

Some leaders got there by manipulation and playing the field, now they need to play their members, that will probably last sometime untill a stronger charismatic leader emerges.

 

Orgs is the same, Well organized orgs with dedicated people will lead the masses, even when these organizations are small. The largest organizations might fall if they cannot fulfill their promises to their members and people feel put back in favor of others.

Some PvP orgs now see that PvP is not end game but a struggle to get too and they camp the starter zone hoping to get some loot, this can work for some days but in the end if there is no backbone and no-one wants to do the basics, muhhh

 

Cities:

We will not see cities the first 6 months

Maybe villages that emerge unintended but cities like tortuga, tranquility and all the organization cities we will see after 6 months. Why? A good city will need a good background, organization and project management. Also there will be a need of stock-build on materials and probably something of 6 months will be needed to get the materials to actually build according to any design.

For me, my DACS will be put in good for Tranquility, if using them for it is a viable solution. 

 

First war:

Day one

Already about 7 organization have sent each other threats and war accusations and probably these will escalate at day one

 

Sanctuary zone:

Probably filled within a year

 

Hmmm more questions?

 

[BaileyVandenbroek]

On 2/11/2020 at 12:40 PM, Armedwithwings said:

Here's my 2 cents on your train of thought...

 

On launch, Alpha testers with their already functional blueprint designs will hold an edge over the common folk.

Due to lack of experience, new players will shift focus on the market and make the "Alpha blueprint owners" a decent penny.

Most of the stuff you'll be seeing flying around are most likely designs created during Alpha tests.

Getting to make an actual space worthy ship takes time and on the race to leave Alioth, time is of the essence!

 

Those reputable builders will always be popular candidates among orgs, and that's to be expected.

Despite offering their skillsets to the cause, corporations will view them as a source of income.

After all, having a certain profession in anything is always expected to be rewarded at an equivalent price, whether it's quanta, DACs or even status.

Many people often find loyalty to that and act accordingly.

 

But when it boils down, there's no right or wrong way to play the game.

Poacher orgs are always gonna be a thing and whether anyone wants to be a part of them that's their own choice really.

you mean org that copies others? by Poacher org?? And now I understand you more!

[BaileyVandenbroek]

13 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Let me add a few cents,

 

Day one, we will see crappy bases springing into life everywhere, no design but effective. These will stay there till about a week or two. After that some orgs will start to build new bases not from blueprints as they discover that blueprints need so much inventory space to place it will need a whole base to place a bp one.

Most bases will be practical and efficient, beauty will be from efficiency and only a few orgs will build for beauty.

 

Who will survive? I have no idea but in general the people who can build with least materials, fastest and most effective will survive. The people who build gothic palaces will probably perish fast if they start doing that at day one. If they however first fly to a sanctuary moon they have a shot.

 

Leaders and Orgs?

There will be Drama, loads of it

Some leaders will think their people will listen to their demands but when day one arrives and the promised PvP ship is not there, they will leave before telling goodby.

Some leaders will be more friendly but lacking charm and vision and also the members there will be gone soon, or take over.

Some leaders got there by manipulation and playing the field, now they need to play their members, that will probably last sometime untill a stronger charismatic leader emerges.

 

Orgs is the same, Well organized orgs with dedicated people will lead the masses, even when these organizations are small. The largest organizations might fall if they cannot fulfill their promises to their members and people feel put back in favor of others.

Some PvP orgs now see that PvP is not end game but a struggle to get too and they camp the starter zone hoping to get some loot, this can work for some days but in the end if there is no backbone and no-one wants to do the basics, muhhh

 

Cities:

We will not see cities the first 6 months

Maybe villages that emerge unintended but cities like tortuga, tranquility and all the organization cities we will see after 6 months. Why? A good city will need a good background, organization and project management. Also there will be a need of stock-build on materials and probably something of 6 months will be needed to get the materials to actually build according to any design.

For me, my DACS will be put in good for Tranquility, if using them for it is a viable solution. 

 

First war:

Day one

Already about 7 organization have sent each other threats and war accusations and probably these will escalate at day one

 

Sanctuary zone:

Probably filled within a year

 

Hmmm more questions?

 

Actually org with players that already played will know exactly what industry to make.. They'll be the first to go back to space they'll prob build a small spaceship to get their sanctuary moon before others haha and you stressed me out lol I really want the best spot for my city atleast some people have STus right on release! I also expect NQ to open the release earlier for Bakers only like 48 hours before or 96 hours before.. 

[le_souriceau]

Thank you for good points!

 

About profiteering from newbies -- I doubt that lot of quanta can be made from them. They simple will lack in game cash at first. 

 

But what worries me -- some guys will be selling "fast into game" packs of ships and other things to impatient (but IRL rich) newbies for DACs with crazy prices, ever worse -- scam them as hard, as it possible. This ugly practice surely arise and I doubt Devs will magane this cr*p effectivly. Only if they put like timer block for using DACs.

 

About surviving -- I very strongly suspect, that generaly WHOLE Ailoth starting system (or even some others too) will be kind of safe zone, because if not, game start will quicky transform in meatgrinder of newbies (by those already have working pvp ships). And devs will barely survive insanly toxic-salty-drama fallout. This means building of gothic castles (ironicly -- absolutly my field of "expertise"),  will be kinda possible in day one and generaly slowed only by need of grabbing decent land and core sizes involved, refining some carbon in pack into bricks.

 

6 m for city? I think you realy overcomplicate whole affair. I played a lot of builing multi games (3d, 2d, pvp, non pvp), generaly speaking it goes into 4 things:

 

1) guy n1 who knows what (and how) to buld and concentrating only on placement of blocks/tiles/other game units, he can do it himself 100% or providing basic blueprients and "fill wall here" or "mirror-copy this from left side" to some apprentices so to say

2) guys (lets call guys n2 - nX) who mine/refine and bring material for guy n1, it depends indeed of scale of gigantism and production times, but generaly this is matter mostly of weeks (days in some easier games)

3) interiors are beast of their own and can consume tonns of time -- this is true

4) if game systems provide some depth, you also some times need  kind of "mechanic-guy" to do something fancy like redsotone in MC (Lua in DU) when builidings as static husks ready, or may be logistic guys, if you need to move things a lot

 

In any rate, principal materials for large builds will be cheap ones, available even in starting zone, you can buy em too. I can predict that building of medium-scale city (it terms of strictly construction) will be something pretty doable buy 10 organized people here. Even less, it they super-effective and realy know what they doing. Quality of finished product is another thing indeed.

 

Sometimes you also need to protect you building area, but this is likely not the case here -- all cities in DU will be more or less in safe space. Even cities of most braggin and militaristic orgs. They not fools to risk in reality.

 

 

[Aaron Cain]

9 hours ago, BaileyVandenbroek said:

Actually org with players that already played will know exactly what industry to make.. They'll be the first to go back to space they'll prob build a small spaceship to get their sanctuary moon before others haha and you stressed me out lol I really want the best spot for my city atleast some people have STus right on release! I also expect NQ to open the release earlier for Bakers only like 48 hours before or 96 hours before.. 

You are correct, and about the city, there are already organizations that can support you and that will help. Within CATS we already are planning this also to get the best spots but if you need help getting there or any other help, just contact me and i will do what i can! We City builders must help each other, the best way to make cities Viable is to have them all interlinked in neutrality or friendship. 

[Aaron Cain]

7 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

6 m for city? I think you realy overcomplicate whole affair. I played a lot of builing multi games (3d, 2d, pvp, non pvp), generaly speaking it goes into 4 things:

 

1) guy n1 who knows what (and how) to buld and concentrating only on placement of blocks/tiles/other game units, he can do it himself 100% or providing basic blueprients and "fill wall here" or "mirror-copy this from left side" to some apprentices so to say

2) guys (lets call guys n2 - nX) who mine/refine and bring material for guy n1, it depends indeed of scale of gigantism and production times, but generaly this is matter mostly of weeks (days in some easier games)

3) interiors are beast of their own and can consume tonns of time -- this is true

4) if game systems provide some depth, you also some times need  kind of "mechanic-guy" to do something fancy like redsotone in MC (Lua in DU) when builidings as static husks ready, or may be logistic guys, if you need to move things a lot

When taking this community into account, the PvP aspect, the proposed mining and flying abilities, 6 months to have a city running is fast. to answer your points:

1 the actual building will need logistics and large industry and containers to even start, this will take some time. the amount of voxels needed for a city are Huge! However, if you can get all the people for a city to actually mine and build time could be reduced, but then i talk about hundrets of players, not in the ten'ths

 2 DU material handling, mining and logistics this will be weeks to months for mining these loads. It is a city not a small build. A city is only a city when it fills at least a full territory, preferably more. 

3 yess, decoration will take even longer and i did not take that into account.

4 indeed, the actual LUA needs and logistics, specially logistics need to be build prior to building the city. 

 

This is also one aspect why it takes long, beside full logistics you need to build full industry capable of building a city that spans over a few Kilometers

 

[le_souriceau]

Well, Perhaps you right about timing. I'm sometime forget how tedious blocks production can be here.

 

I personaly plan to just steal free carbs from starting zone and build everthing from bricks and wood. Old school style.

[Aaron Cain]

Call me if you need help!

 

[le_souriceau]

Thank you, very kind of you : ) But offering help to strangers can be dangerous virtue.

[Aaron Cain]

Accepting from strangers Too  So lets get to know each other and then help   offer stands