Search the Community

In the time I've spent reading these forums, I see this topic come more than a handful of times on DAC's and DU's subscription system. It's something to be expected, a merchant goes "hey I got a nice product, pay me xyz dollars", then the consumer goes "how can I get this for the best value for my money?". This is a quite normal thought process. I think of it every time when looking at goods and their prices and especially before I check out my products. We value our money because we put time and effort into earning it, and want to maximize our potential with it. Our time on Earth is fairly limited. We'd much rather spend it doing the things we enjoy. Being among family and friends, playing a favorite game or watching a pleasurable TV show, producing something we know others will find value in, enjoying a good drink, or relaxing someplace nice. Our money is also fairly limited. Bills and utilities need to be paid, food stocked in the fridge, insurance for the car, books for the college student, the oldest child needs to borrow $20, again... the list goes on. The means with which we acquire said money is also relatively limited. Businesses are open certain hours, shifts are only so long, and our work is only so interesting before we must devote that remaining days time to the above mentioned. Insert Dual Universe. For those of you that are currently not in the Pre-Alpha tests, you've seen the videos (some more than once) and read the news, you're excited. Pre-Alpha testers are not only excited but are also able to experience this new game and bring some of their dreams to virtual life for others to enjoy. Mind, blown... Everything seems awesome until you meet "subscription" and "Dual Access Coupons". Upon closer inspection, this is, indeed, a subscription-based game... oh no... For those of us that have followed along for a while, we know that a subscription will fall somewhere around $10 to $13 a month, while DAC's will be a bit more expensive at $15 to $20 a month. Not a big deal right? For some, it isn't, but for others, it's a major hurdle. Maybe you've been a free2play player all your life and can't imagine the thought of paying, or perhaps you simply can't afford it. Well friends, hurdles are made for jumping over, sometimes three at a time. and jump we will... If you can't afford a months subscription time, let's dig into this thing called 'our life' and examine what we can do to afford a months worth of game time. If you don't have time to read, I'll cut this all down to a paragraph for you at the very bottom of this post! ------------------------------------------------------- First off, what is the difference between a subscription and a Dual Access Coupon? What even are they, to begin with? Have you ever been to a fair? For those who haven't, the rides are fun, and the food is more than questionable. From sugar overload to dipped in oil to stuff you've never seen before and never will again... How do you get access to that fair though? You can do two things: Buy an all-day wristband at the gate. Unlimited rides from now until closing time. One person only, or... Buy tickets. The ferris wheel is one ticket, bumper cars are two, etc. You can split it among friends. You go for the wristband and wander in. At the fair, there are those booths filled with games that are statistically near improbable to win but among the prizes, you notice that there are tickets, with a grand prize being a roll of 1000 tickets. With some time, you luck out and score that 1000 ticket roll but you have an all-day pass, what do you do with it? You sell it to the kids that need more tickets and make back what you paid for on your all-day pass. Short analogy, lets work with it... All new accounts will start with a free trial. Think of this as being outside the fair, yet still able to see all the rides that are inside. You can enter the game environment and get an idea of what you can do inside of it, but there are limits like skill restrictions, construct sizes and the number of elements that can be placed for example. You can see the rides, you just can't ride them. In Dual Universe, let's say that this all day wristband is the subscription that you buy from the gatekeeper, NovaQuark. It's yours and can not be taken from you in-game. You get thirty days to play, after which your subscription will end and you can either pay for another month or end up unable to play. Dual Access Coupons are like the tickets. You can also get them from NovaQuark and spend them in the game environment however you like. Be it hiring out another players services, using it to fund your own time, or you could give it to a friend. If you put in your own services into the in-game environment, you can get paid in DAC's as well. Since DAC's are not as secure as a subscription and present as an item in the game, you also run the risk of having them taken from you with force by another player. You can buy a subscription, pay for the game, and be perfectly fine. You can also buy Dual Access Coupons or earn them inside the game to also pay for your game. Both achieve the same goal, but what's the difference? A subscription is purchased from NovaQuark and tied to you, it can't be taken in-game, and it can't be sold in-game. A Dual Access Coupon can also be purchased from NovaQuark, unlike with a subscription, however, it is only associated with you. What this means is that the DAC can be stolen from you in the game since it is an in-game item. It can be purchased in-game from another player, and likewise sold as well. Now that we've defined what a subscription and DAC is, as well as the differences between them, let's go about discussing how we can pay for our game time. Since DAC's are more versatile, in-game items, I will be referencing them in the place of subscriptions. Be sure to also keep in mind that DAC's are a few dollars more expensive than a subscription. ------------------------------------------------------- Let's assume for simplicity sake that a single DAC is $15 and expand it over a years time. $15 x 12 = $180 Starbucks --- Caffe Latte - Tall (Small) - $2.95 $3 x 5 days = $15 15 x 4 weeks = $60/month --- Not including saved gas money or 1/3rd of a year's DACs Now that you lasted a month, maybe you want to cut Starbucks out of your life entirely? $60/month x 12 months = $720 720/180 = ... 4 years of DAC's Dropping your coffee habit alone could pay for a year of time playing Dual Universe, AND that of three friends! Xbox Live --- 12mo = $60 or 1mo x 12 = $120 or 1/3rd to 2/3rds of a years DACs No job --- If you don't want to give up your console gaming and aren't old enough to hold a job, go shovel snow, rake yards, mow lawns, wash cars, trim bushes etc. $60 is a good weekends worth of work, it's also good exercise too! Additionally, if you're still a kid and you get an allowance from your parents, you are now on my hit-list because I never got one and I'm super duper jealous of those that do. You can put that towards your subscription. If you get paid for doing chores around the house, you are also on my hit-list because I never got paid for doing chores, insanity I say! A roof over my head, food in my stomach, and clothes on my back were payment enough. Now, if you can hold a job... Yes job --- How long would you have to work to fund a year's worth of gameplay? Not as much as you might think... Not including tips or lunch breaks --- 180 / 7.25 (US federal minimum wage) = ~25 working hours or just over three days at eight hours/day 180 / 10 = 18 working hours or a little over two days 180 / 15 (some state-mandated minimum wages) = 12 working hours, a day and a half's work, or for some, an all-day shift Phone plan --- If you have a phone payment plan through a major wireless carrier, you are messing up, hardcore! Consider looking at a non-major wireless carrier and you could save big. Verizon: 4 lines - Unlimited talk, text, data, high quality streaming for $160/mo = $1920/yr *MintSim: 1 line - Unlimited talk, text 10G high-speed data (per mo) then unlimited throttled - $25/mo (if purchasing 1yr bulk package = $300/yr) x 4 lines = $100/mo = $1200/yr 4 lines on MintSim over 4 lines on Verizion makes for a savings of $720/year 4 years of DACs *This is strictly for comparative purposes, I do advocate nor am I paid to on behalf of MintSim, this is strictly for comparison reasons, please don't hurt me. **MintSim runs on the T-Mobile network so you may or may not have coverage in your area. Cable TV --- I can only compare this to myself so bear with me. Basic Cable = 20 channels = $20/mo 12mo = $300/yr TV antenna + coax cable = 9 channels + 6 sub-channels $40 - one time cost until something breaks Money saved on TV each month could easily pay for your DACs if you're on a limited TV plan or live in a metro area with lots of TV antennas. If you're interested in this, the US FCC has a barebones guide on antennas in your area with only a zip code needed. Of course, this all depends on your immediate controllable environment like the antenna location+height vs trees, other buildings, and things more or less out of your control like a mountain between you and the antennas or living down in a valley, even the weather can be against you. Renters might want to check their building codes when mounting an antenna on the roof or on a mast. College Books --- If you're buying them outright (from your college bookstore) and not renting them (also bookstore) that's also another issue... Get them, and rent them online, the savings can be massive! Abnormal Psychology 8thEd - Oltmanns and Emery College bookstore: $278 Amazon: $247 (purchased, new) Amazon: $35 (rented) Amazon: $10 (purchased, new, international edition) Savings of $268 off one book for one semester 17.5 months of DAC Bigwords is personally recommended for their comparison services. Transportation to and from college --- Let say you live in a modest town of and college is all the way across town so you drive five miles like I would have to do every weekday, then five miles back home. Your car gets 30mi/gal on an 8gal tank. 240 miles per tank. Gas = $2.55 for the state of North Dakota One tank = $20.40 Your car can make 22 round-trips + 1 for stop/go + 1 for gas if it's strictly for this use. Most colleges will offer students a free or discounted pass on public transportation. Let's say that isn't offered and you're stuck paying regular fares. My local bus service charges $1.50/ride for an adult without a student ID, and rides are free with their ID. In this case: $1.50 x 2 rides/day x 22 round-trips = $66 One tank = $22.40 In this case, driving yourself is more economical than riding the bus. A trip to campus from home for me is 30 minutes so I spend an hour on transportation each day. So considering my student pass makes transportation free, it becomes a value question? What do you value more, your time, or your money? Don't forget that a vehicle needs to be insured so that costs additional money and there are so many variables I won't even bother spelling it out but it is worth remembering. Savings of $43.60 if you drive as opposed to riding the bus 2.75 months of DACs $66 not spent if you can ride for free 4 months of DACs Mobile Options --- Yes, you can use your phone to make money. Some will pay you for installing and trying out various apps. Maybe you have to install it and have a look around, or perhaps you have to achieve a particular objective or rise up to a specific level? Others will pay you to view ads. I'm only familiar with ones that show lock screen ads which only take a fraction of a second to slide away, but there might be other options available too. If you have an Android (not sure about iPhones) and haven't heard, Google Opinion Rewards is a great place to start. The only catch is that you can only spend your credit in the Google Play store. Digital Currency Mining --- I have absolutely no experience in this so forgive me if this is short. By now I'm pretty sure that everyone and their mum have heard of the Bitcoin. If you haven't, what kind of rock have you been living under and can I get one too? Aside from the Bitcoin, there are various other coins out there that hold "value" and are obtained through a process of "mining". Mining involves crunching numbers and verifying the results. This can be a slow process although it can be sped up with more powerful hardware that if bought for the sole purpose of mining, brings the process of Return on Investment (RoI) into play. For individuals, this could be a zero-sum game. While Bitcoin has increased in value over the years, so has the difficulty in mining. Basically, where you could score say once every hour a couple years ago, you'd be lucky today to do so every week, month, quarter, I really don't know. Additionally, more people are mining the currency so that ups the factor now that the Bitcoin pie is being split among more people. Aside from paying off your RoI which could take months, there is also the cost of electricity you need to consider. Sure you could be mining coins, but that money might just be going to your electric company in exchange for the additional power you are consuming from running your equipment 24/7. Not to mention any applicable wear and tear associated with the constant use or pushing your components beyond safe limits. Lets also not forget to talk about the climate that's around you. Since your components need to be kept cool in order for them to work, if you can pull in cool air and exhaust out hot air, you'll be peachy. If you're pulling in already warm air, however, your cooling setup will need to work a lot harder to keep your components from overheating which again you'll also need to consider your electric prices. Did I also mention that you are competing against warehouses of GPU's and CPUs (that sometimes catch fire)? It should also not need mentioning that digital currency is extremely volatile. Indeed, something that might be worth $20,000 one day, might easily be half that the next. Above all, digital currency is a gamble, not an investment. That said, there are various digital currencies that can be mined through CPU's and GPU's, although I recently (3/27) just heard about a new currency, Burstcoin, that can be mined using your digital storage devices. If you're so inclined, it might be something worth looking into. Work in-game --- If none of the above is an option and you have a good deal of spare time on your hands, do some work in the in-game economy. Let me explain how this works: There are often two types of people: Those who have a lot of money but not much time, and those who have a lot of time but not much money. Someone will buy a handful of DAC's and exchange them for Quanta, you put in some work and after being paid for your work, you can then use that Quanta to turn around purchase your DAC's in the game environment and be set for another 30 days. Mine, refine, haul, build, design. The only limit to the possibilities is you. Not enough in-game time, no outside money --- What kind of pickle are we in here? A big, juicy, fat one. Let it be known on the record, I hate pickles... You have plenty of online and mobile options to choose from but be wary, these can be fairly hit-and-miss. From having a minimum required balance to withdraw to not being able to withdraw in your desired method, these are only the start of your issues. "Get Paid To..." websites are exactly what they sound like. You'll be paid for various things like giving your opinion on surveys, watching videos, and completing tasks. The greatest source of income can be had through purchasing sample packs or getting an item for a discount on the basis that you get a few extra dollars in return (spend 5, get 7). Depending on the website and activity you choose, however, you could be fraught with risks. Are you comfortable with giving your demographics to surveys so they can confirm or deny your participation based on their desire to hear from a subset of people (male, 30s, part-time job, birthday, college educated, married, etc), do you trust your credit card details online in exchange for sample products? A couple of other risks entail spam. Although I had received very little spam in my email inbox prior, that certainly ticked up after I started earning through this method. I haven't received any physical spam in the mailbox, but it's been years since I used this service so things may have changed. Additionally, if you truly value your time, this might not be the best option. While doing surveys, I can not tell you how many times I was booted at the very end because the survey reached their participation goal, my demographics were undesirable, or a question I answered had screened me out. Having spent, in some cases 30 minutes, it is very rage inducing. The fact that you may not even get a few cents in compensation for your time that is now wasted is one major reason why I would not endorse this, although being a teenager with no income, I muscled through. I could go at this activity all day and sometimes not even break a dollar, although, on a good day when I was blessed by the gods, $10 was mine for the taking. Of course, if you have a job then you'll be guaranteed payment for your time, whereas here, you obviously have no such thing which is one of the reasons why you won't find me doing this. All that said, I consider myself a personal success story, having earned almost $600 in the time I spent doing this which I think is no small feat, although there are some who have gone on to earn thousands (yes, plural) over an extended period of time. https://snag.gy/tbLmMC.jpg If you recognize this website, please do not speak of it by name. I broke away after they implemented their 3-month timeout mechanism that locks your earnings which I wholly protest, so I can not, and will not endorse them. Yes, this is one such feature you might have to put up with... I won't promote any single site by name but if you google around, finding one should not be an issue. With all this in mind, this really is a last-ditch effort which is why I have moved this to the bottom of the stack. ------------------------------------------------------- Now, this is all strictly an example, it obviously won't fit everyone. There are so many things you can either do without or adjust your spending on when it comes to saving money that it really is a no-brainer when it comes to paying for your game time. Sure when you look at $120 to $180, it can be a big number all by itself, but when you do a bunch of small things over the course of time, it really starts to add up. Hey, isn't that a saying somewhere? Why do I bring this up when $10 isn't a big deal like I said in the intro? Because it is a big deal. Again, little savings do add up over time when compared to societies current habit of spend spend spend, swipe swipe swipe. Do you really need to go out for dinner every other night at the corner restaurant when a homemade meal can cost a fraction of that and still take just as much time to prepare as it would driving to the restaurant and waiting? Do you really need that thousand dollar iPhone when your current model is just fine? Need more storage, buy an SD card or use the cloud. Need more battery life, buy a power pack. Need a faster phone, drop Apple and take a bite out of a $480 OnePlus5, it's got six gigs of ram and SD 435 for its CPU. Yeah, that's right, it's an android. Bite me you expensive fruit, cheap candy is the way to go! Yeah, it's nice to splurge those savings on something once in a while when you feel like you deserve it, case-in-point, I'm a ruby founder. Also, pay with cash over using a credit card, it's an easy way to visualize how much you're actually spending in between paychecks. ------------------------------------------------------- In closing, yes, you can afford a DAC, you can afford tons of them, you just don't know how to do so. Luckily now you do. These few examples are just ones I pulled off the top of my head that I have either seen or experience in my personal life, I'm sure folks can come up with so much more to add here so I'll just leave it at that to get you started! Please suggest something and I'll add it to this post! Hope this helped! ------------------------------------------------------- If you skipped all the way to the bottom and didn't bother to read everything I laboriously took the time to write, here's what you can do to afford your Dual Universe subscription. Cut out Starbucks, stop playing on Xbox Live, mow lawns, wash cars, shovel driveways, re-evaluate your phone and cable TV plans, rent your college books online, consider using public transportation to and from college if your pass makes it free to do so, do some in-game work, or consider looking for ways to make money doing things online.

How will this game be paid For? I've heard that it will be sub based, but a friend recently told me that it will only be sub based when the game is in Beta but will be pay to keep when the game releases. Is this true, or will it be sub based for the game release?

A forum is typically a place to discuss single topics, pose questions or make suggestions. This happens in a highly organized manner, which is perfect for keeping discussions in order, being able to archive them and giving a large portion of people the possibility to participate. However, there are downsides to it when it comes to user friendliness in various forms. Getting an answer usually takes time, topics that may interest you already exist but are no longer active or already archived and discussion can head in a directions you don’t feel like taking part in. For these reasons, the user Loondoe has created the Dual Universe Guide (DUG) Discord server. What exactly is that? Primarily, the DUG server aims to provide a 24/7 live-support platform for all players interested in any aspect of Dual Universe. This support is offered by many volunteering, friendly and well respected community members from all branches. Furthermore, the server intends to act as a compressed collection of informational sources and material. We publish community generated guidelines, articles, monthly handouts, records and history information, walkthroughs and more. Is this the right thing for me? Basically, the server is for everyone and everything distantly and closely related to Dual Universe. This is definitely what you are looking for if: you want to have questions about the game or features, the community portal, pledges or the forums and its community answered fast and easily you want to find or be provided with information and sources for the game’s features and plans quickly you want to find or found an organization and need advice you are looking for players or organizations to partner up or make business with you want to feature a website, server or project you created and open it to the public you need help or a solution for a problem you encountered you want to get informed about past or current events and business in the community you need help with anything else and need someone to talk to And how does it work? First, you’ll need to join the Discord server itself by clicking the link below: https://discord.gg/J4AVBy7 Once you’ve joined, you can just state your issue in one of the support channels to receive help from supporters. Alternatively, you can take a look at the other channels to look for information yourself. And that’s it. That’s how easy it is to receive help. For any further suggestion and question on the project itself, these will of course also be answered on the forums itself.

Is purchasing a months subscription and buying/redeeming a DAC the exact same thing? Or are they different prices? If they are, why? Why not just have DAC redemption be the only mechanic to extend game time? (If these questions have been answered before, I apologize, I couldn't find them.)

In response to the recent issue of DAC's, and specifically about whether or not they should be allowed to be "stolen" ingame, I believe that this compromise may satisfy the desires of both crowds. I believe it also may add a perk for backers that may encourage more people to back (although I can see the downsides from the point of view of the community as well). I'm asking that you please read through these options fully before voting in the poll. The "Eve Online Model" as referred to here is as follows: - PLEX does not have to be converted into an ingame item immediately. - You do not have to be in the same station as your PLEX to redeem it. - You do not have to bring it into the game to redeem it. - If you convert it to an ingame item, you can trade it to other players. - If it is an ingame item it can be stolen while moving it through space if you are killed. - Plex are otherwise safe in stations when not being physically moved through space Option A - No DAC's are lootable regardless of when they are acquired. No DAC's can be "stolen". All DAC's are completely secure. Option B - All DAC's are lootable regardless of when they are acquired. DAC's can be "stolen". All DAC's follow the "Eve Online Model". Option C - (The Compromise) Kickstarter DAC's are non-lootable and are "safe" (ie pre-release purchased DAC's follow Option A.) DAC's purchased after release follow the same mechanics that Eve does (ie post-release purchased DAC's follow option B.) Option D - Other - Please Explain Below

As a future developer in Dual Universe, the idea of DACs as payment seems like an interesting prospect. But the more I think about it, the more it seems like a bit of a d-bag move on the part of the developers. I don't want this to be an overtly negative post, but bear with me.. I intend to be creating a whole lot of stuff in game, ships, defenses, tools, etc. with full Lua scripting to back them all up. These things will take a TON of time to develop if you hope to have a decent result from them. However, with the Dual Access Coupons being the only *real* form of payment I can hope to receive in game, it kind of feels like a bit of a face slap. Think about it. I spend 25 hours working on a super awesome engine control module with advanced auto-maneuvering for someone who requested it custom. Joe Space Captain goes to the Dual website and buys himself two DACs to give to me as payment for the work I did. Great, I got this month and next in game for free as payment. = 30 Euro savings or whatever for me. Now, instead of a custom job, I make a super awesome base turret blueprint that I sell on open market. Let's say 250 people buy it at 500 credits each, and I trade those 125,000 credits for 5 DACs that people are selling on the market. What happened here? I now have 5 free months in game, which I may or may not ever use, but NovaQuark just made 75 euro in real money cash for all of that work that I did. Once I start collecting DACs like candy because now 10,000 users have realized how good it is and have purchased my super-awesome turret, NQ is rolling in the money for work I did, and those DACs I accrued have become virtually useless to me. Obviously, I made assumptions the monthly fee is 12 euro and DAC are 15 euro. Actual cost doesn't really matter. The more I make and sell on market, the more trivial the DACs will become. Meanwhile, NQ makes tons of constant value cash on my work. My alternative would be to just hoard the in-game currency, which has equally nil real-world value. I have to imagine that with this system of payments, serious developers and builders will eventually just start dealing outside of the game and make contracts to do in-game work with payments in real cash. That's the only way it would actually be worth it to build things over the long term. All of the really good stuff in game will only be accessible through various user-run black markets outside of game, with in-game market only used for trivial purchases just to get items transferred and to earn the in-game money needed for resource accumulation. I could be wrong, but that's what I foresee happening. What are your thoughts?