Wyndle
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Posts posted by Wyndle
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32 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:
Space-lawyering aside, though, the point I'm trying to make is that a significant number of people (myself included) did not want to start playing a beta, but wanted to play DU from the start of the world rather than 1+ year in and felt they had no choice but to start playing 'for real' when the beta started. I'm pretty sure I posted things to that effect several times here during the early beta whenever people made "it's just a beta" types of posts. Those people are now frustrated at having to start all over again, and many don't want to. I think this is understandable.
I get it and I'm not trying to tell anyone that they shouldn't feel upset over how it played out. The distrust and pain of the community is squarely on NQ's shoulders for how they've handled things. I have also been vocal on these forums with my perspective trying to help some understand that everything I was seeing screamed "Beta is Beta," and a ratcheting probability of a wipe for Release. NQ could have been more up-front to prevent some of the trouble. We don't know if there were any background obligations (i.e. investor NDA, contracts, etc.) that prevented them from being fully transparent or if it was just poor choices.
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9 minutes ago, juryisout said:
Eventually, people will give up if they can’t get honest from the company.
Tell that to Monsanto/Bayer. LOL
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8 hours ago, Zeddrick said:
Except that NQ explicitly said that the start of the 'Beta' was going to be the last full wipe. So people who wanted to discover that new game in a fresh state from day 1 felt like they had to begin at the start of beta because it would never be that way again. And that's why some people are annoyed now -- a lot of people were already playing what they considered to be the 'full' game (and paying a monthly sub for that) and were playing 'for keeps'. Two years is a long time to play and have everything erased.
If memory serves, they said that they did not 'plan' to reset the server but left the option should it be needed. When they released the Demeter update they changed one of the primary techs that produces planets meaning they had no choice but to reset the planets to implement it. They reiterated that they didn't want to wipe then or later but they still had the disclaimer 'unless needed.' While JC may have used that type of language verbally the company never put it in writing and guess who is no longer in the CEO role? Starting over isn't for everyone, and some rage quit when they die with a full inventory in Minecraft before they set a bed. I get that this isn't exactly the same but it still illustrates a point.
Quotehttps://www.dualuniverse.game/news/inside-novaquark-demeter-edition
Topics include:
- How we're implementing a new voxel grid on planets called hexoctrees, which will significantly decrease database costs and improve performance for players.
- The fundamental changes to mining, including the removal of underground ore, how mining units work and how their efficiency can be optimized.
- How the management of territories is impacted with the introduction of monthly ownership fees among other changes.
- How these changes include a reset of the planets’ geometry and the potential impact on some players with underground bases.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but prior packages are still getting most of what they were promised from Alpha and pre-Alpha. Pets and appearance cosmetic items do not appear to be involved, but Sanctuary is technically no longer needed (Haven) and the STU has become an exclusive (for now?) perk that was named in early rewards packs. Just how exclusive? Don't know yet.
I agree with the assessment of the Pioneer packages being both a money grab and an accelerator that many accounts already qualify for, at least partially. Calling it a reward is a tone deaf technicality that caused some hurt feelings, but it isn't entirely accurate to say NQ is the bad guy on this.
The beautiful thing about DU is that the community can take steps after the launch to make in-game items; with a little help from NQ to distribute to applicable accounts.
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16 minutes ago, Distinct Mint said:
The STUs are part of various Backer packs. If you have a pack, you will know whether or not you have an STU as part of it. Beta accounts (free or paid) won't have this.
So my Patron pack main account will get a STU. But my (free) beta-key account deriving from the alpha account, won't get it (probably).
Of course, NQ may surprise us tomorrow, but currently it looks like only backer accounts (with STU in their pack) will get it.That's what it sounds like to me as well. I was looking for clarification for my key-alt who has a tile on Sanctuary but I suspect others will also want to know.
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Q: Will we be able to choose between Haven and Sanctuary in the new FTUE?
A: At launch, everyone will start on Haven during the FTUE. However, players who have an additional Sanctuary Territory Unit as a reward from a Supporter Pack they pledged, will be able to settle themselves on the Sanctuary moon.
What is the cutoff requirement on this? Clearly the individual accounts who purchased founder/supporter packs get this but what about key accounts and subscribing beta accounts? Or is it limited only to those who actually placed a STU prior to wipe?
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33 minutes ago, Distinct Mint said:
Am I understanding this correctly:
Everyone starts on Haven, and so gets a tax-free tile to run autominers on there.
Backers (those with a free Sanctuary Territory Unit) can also claim a tax-free tile on Sanctuary, and run autominers for free there too?
So Backers can save 500q/week on automining (tile tax) fees for T1 ore?
The fact that Sanctuary is limited makes me oddly happy. I wasn't even thinking about tile tax.
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8 minutes ago, LeoCora said:
I agree the game needs a reset. so much is broken..so many redundant assets.
I agree everyone should start on the same footing... unfortunately that's not what NQ are doing...they are saying 'if you pay us more you can have a bigger headstart '
That's the only bit about all of this I struggle with. They could have 'rewarded' players without it including talent points.
Funny, you mentioning redundant assets caused me to stumble into visualizing the current schematic system acting like sensor for your factory. If you're not in the factory checking on it then it shuts itself down. You can set the timer longer by feeding the schematic bank but you have to keep resetting that timer. By doing that it prevents inactive players from leaving the lights on.
NQ has heavily referenced Eve Online, meaning SP are 'important' but kinda not so I don't see the SP bonus being a problem. The beaters (yay, another SAO reference!) already have multiple advantages even at zero SP. At the same time, even with the wipe having a dedicated base of experienced players with more SP will likely have more positive impact on the game than not.
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26 minutes ago, LeoCora said:
as far as i know an alpha is where they add all the features and a beta is the testing, balancing and polishing phase? They went into 'beta' not feature complete and are about to launch without the features tested and polished? not sure what to say..
Anyway... i get blasted for sharing my views on this.. so going to end it here.. thank you for being civil... its more than i get from the DU discord.
You know....its sounds trivial but all I really wanted from this 'debate' was an acceptance that yes its about the cash....instead I had people talking to me like this was always the plan... maybe im a bit OCD... like many others ive put a lot of time into DU and to be degraded into nothing (i get a lot of 'if you don't like it leave') is a hard pill to swallow.
I have no clue if they're still using the terms correctly but at one time I thought they were. I stepped away from the game and the forums for a while and I'm not sure how much of the scuttlebutt is personalities vs. legit issues. What I've seen of the new content so far hints at more being ready than they've let on. That combined with prior appropriate use of Alpha/Beta/Release terms tells me that the launch is either going to blow up (+) or explode (-), and I want a front row seat either way.
I apologize if you thought I was disagreeing with you. I was just conversing on the topic; as much out of nerves as anything else. None of the factors I'm discussing change the fact that it is definitely about the cash. It saddens me that anyone has been treated less than civil and I hope that it wasn't anyone directly or indirectly associated with NQ.
I hope you have a great day and fly dangerous.
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4 minutes ago, LeoCora said:
please don't use the 'its a beta' argument...DU had bypassed the traditional alpha and beta rules
I have been vocal on these forums for years applauding NQ for what I perceived as correct use of Alpha and Beta nomenclature compared to most studios. Not that I'm trying to use that as an argument, rather as supporting evidence for my own thought process. I am as nervous as everyone else and in fear that I've O.D'd on hopium.
And for the record: I couldn't afford the subs. Paul's happy but Peter is about to be very upset.
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1 minute ago, LeoCora said:
Oh i agree with you. They have been cutting costs and trying to make the game financially viable for ages.. now they are forced to release despite the game not being ready. The things i have a problem with is hidding that behind a 'reward' and the loads of people in this community defending it.
loads of people played and helped build this game for 2+ years... they will have all of their stuff deleted and then handed back based on how much they pay.... i know you get it....i understand it's a business.... but when people defend and pretend its not a thing i find it triggering. NQ dont want long term (more than 13 months) subs.... they want short term money... that should worry people..
It does worry me so I put my money where my mouth is. I was 87% sure they would wipe for launch before 0.23 and 99.99999% sure after - so that aspect doesn't affect me emotionally. The fact that they dragged it out this long tells me a lot about the remaining staff; more good than bad. But I don't think they are not ready. They've got more polishing to do but I have a feeling there are solid foundations ready to be put in place that we haven't seen yet.
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9 minutes ago, LeoCora said:
My point is that im very happy to pay for 2 monthly subs.... but thats not good enough for NQ.. they want me to pre-pay for 13 months to get as much back as i already had as possible.
I can't (nor would I attempt) to change your feelings on it but I can explain my own thoughts.
NQ most likely has their hands tied with a make or break ultimatum. DU is overdue for every previous release target they've stated and has probably been bleeding funds the whole time. The first year of an officially released DU will be what decides its fate going forward. I've spent more time typing the word "potential" and its synonyms into this forum than I've spent playing other games over the past several years so I've already subbed 13 months on 3 accounts despite not paying a sub the whole Beta.
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There's more numbers at play than what you've outlined. Sure, the percent value of each reward set has diminishing returns but you left out the potential monetary savings of pre-purchasing 12 months up-front. Then there's the subjective/emotional value of knowing you can access the game in the following month without additional expense.
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3 hours ago, Cergorach said:
many underestimate how much work.
I'd be surprised if it isn't a Robb Zombie Grind-Fest.
Having watched NQ go through proper use of Alpha and Beta development cycles (at least while JC was here) I suspect that most people who have only seen the state of the game up to 0.23 will not recognize the game at release. For some that will be a good thing, for the rest... well, they left for reason(s) that may or may not be even bigger factors in gameplay.
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28 minutes ago, Gunhand said:
The VR market is indeed small which is unfortunate. Meta are banking a whole lot on being able to capture the market with the Quest being a more user friendly standalone device but it's still not there yet and might not be for some time.
As for if there are tools available, your only option is for something like vorpx or similar.
The other problem you run into using third party tools to force a game into VR is the online aspect. Using some form of mod or manipulation to an online game could be seen or flagged as an exploit and get you banned. It would only work if it was officially sanctioned. It's all good if you're doing it on a single player game but online would be a grey area.
If nothing else, using the Quest 2 as a virtual monitor resized to near life size first person perspective is amazing. My only complaint is that my joystick currently has a bad drift so I haven't been able to test that in game.
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1 hour ago, Gunhand said:
The main issue with creating fan made mods to make non VR games into VR revolves around a couple of factors.
Popularity being the first, the engine the game is built on being second.
DU is still niche and not widely known. Coupled with its decline in popularity and uncertainty of its future. If you draw a Venn Diagram of someone who would be capable of doing it with a fan who is totally due hard to the game, the centre area would contain precisely no one.
If memory serves me DU is built in Unigine. Which isn't widely adopted or used anywhere even close to Unreal or Unity. So adding an extra circle to your Venn Diagram that encompasses someone familiar with Unigine, you've got even less than no one.
First and foremost I was asking if there were already tools available, even if they weren't specific to DU and/or don't work well. I agree that the likelihood that someone would target development of a niche within a niche of a niche is absurdly low statistically but it doesn't hurt to ask.
50 minutes ago, Bazzy_505 said:To put it bluntly, current VR adoption sits around 3% according to steam charts. Steam certaily isn't the whole PC games' industry, but it arguably largest chunk of it all, thus providing pretty decent sample of what the rest of it looks like. Even if actual DU sub numbers were sitting at 50.000, which would have been a major success for something as niche as DU is.
(never mind it took years even for eve to surpass that number). You basically askin for feature relevant to 1500 people out of the enitre population. It's simply not worth the dev time, especially for du, which has gaping holes in just about every aspect of its core functionality.
While there was quite a bit of excitement at beginning of this VR cycle ( it comes and goes about once in 10-15 years), that interest has already fizzled out. While VR is having some success in business application/visualization fields, consumer market has been stagnant at best in past 18 months. A number of AAA studios dove right into VR expecting customers to come later, but they never did, at least not in numbers where it would have matterd, and canned their future VR efforts on hold till there is actually seizable market for it. And on consumer end, there are notable games built from ground up for VR, but very of them are a must have, hence Index or Vive is are a hard sell. Interestingly a lot of people who bought Index for Alyx dumped it on secondary market after finishing the game
Second, the thing about fan made anything is that it comes from the heart of a fan. It's those kinds of fans that generate word of mouth and build thriving communities within the niches of the niches. Or as a scruffy nerf herder once said, "Never tell me the odds."
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7 hours ago, Zarcata said:
There is a lack of possibilities to create your own mini-planets or asteroids - or is that going too far for players to help shape the game?
One might think that enabling this seems as simple as allowing terrain type voxels to edge detect other voxel types and originate spatial coordinates from the intersect point. NQ has the technical collective brainpower to achieve this but the hardware requirements to achieve a playable game with such a feature enabled would mean bumping min spec to require resizable bar, and possibly more. They have already significantly narrowed their potential customer base with the AVX requirement. It was strictly coincidence that my last PC upgrade (prior to learning about AVX) was 7th gen Intel. Had I made one of many other hardware choices I would not have been capable of playing yet.
Having put it in those terms it now occurs to me that should DU thrive it would only be a matter of time for features like this to come about.
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16 hours ago, CousinSal said:
Exactly, its become boring universe. Yes in real life people want to be safe. But when i log into a video game im looking for adventure because "death" is just a respawn away. I have quit DU and dont plan on coming back because of complete boredom. I'll might come back, but only if they drop all the safe zones except Haven/scan and then also limit the industry you can do on those starter moons.
I suspect we will keep a smaller form of safe zone, such as limited to Alioth and its moons. If my hunch is correct then Industry is already limited there due to ore distribution and auto-miner limitations.
8 hours ago, CousinSal said:Or you know, everything should be in a pvp zone like other successful space games. EvE and Star Citizen. SC if you mine, you can be shot. In EvE if you mine you can be shot. Funny how those games have such a strong backing, and one has been alive for decades. Surely that cant have anything to do with it right?
I don't think you can use that three word combination on either named title. Eve may be set in space with space travel elements but it is not even close to being a space game. I'd say it's closer in nature to an auto-clicker economy spreadsheet game with heavy reliance on PvP to keep the economy in motion. One could argue that SC isn't even a game yet, and we would have to define successful carefully for that word to be applied.
1 hour ago, PopsiclePete said:Sure .. no argument there and what you say perfectly matches what I said.
EVE being the longest lasting space game is debatable and depends on how you define "space game".
I'd disagree there anyway. The economy is at the core of EVE as it drives pretty much everything that happens in game, then PvE as it feeds into it and then PVP as it takes from both and can't exist without either one. combat PVP in EVE is certainly under the control of politics and Economics. As I mentioned the smaller scale skirmishes/roams/camps and such are really not all that relevant in the bigger picture of the game. And in that perspective, I do hope DU can develop along a similar path, but it will take years.
A (traditional) stool cannot stand on one or two legs, it requires three. Eve has three legs on its stool, being PvE, economy, and PvP. One can play entirely PvE or PvP in Eve but both must interact with the economy. PvE in high sec only is possible but an incredibly boring grind for inferior loots.
Once we see the release version of DU I suspect we will see similar gating of the low quality, boring grind to the safe zone and anything worth working for will require risk.
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45 minutes ago, Gunhand said:
I remember way back in Alpha I tried a vorpx add-on and it kind of worked but there was no stereoscopic function and the performance was awful. I haven't checked recently to know if the add-on improved or worked better with a more recent version of DU. It's probable that it doesn't.
It's definitely something I would love to see officially supported, but as mentioned above there is a huge amount of development priority to be taken into account first and the likelihood of this getting official support is slim to non existent.
If it did at some point it wouldn't be for Quest as it would require a whole new client and an insane amount of development to be able to get it to run on the Quest hardware. It would be more likely an add-on for the existing Windows client and run through Vive or Rift etc.
I went through all of the VR related forum posts and saw Vorpx mentioned. I've also seen a single individual put out mods for multiple existing PC games (new and old) to give them great UNofficial VR support. I know better than to ask about official support for VR at this stage. NQ has too many higher priority issues to give VR more attention than an acknowledgement on the forums.
I have no illusion of running DU on the HMD directly though I have hope to run it on the Steam Deck but that's another subject. I mentioned the Quest 2 specifically because not all solutions will work for all PCVR configurations.
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I know that NQ has not been able to put serious thought or effort into VR, nor would I expect it of them at this point. That isn't to say that there may not be other solutions. Is there anything that currently works(ish)? Bonus for Quest 2 specific results.
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6 hours ago, Cergorach said:
Maybe add a trophy in game for such events or if that's to much to ask, a specific achievement for that event..
If NQ puts in some way to track such achievements past the wipe, even something as simple as an official CSV file with the important info then the players who are dedicated to building community can make the in-game voxel trophy to hand out later. I could even see it being a LUA based free pickup so only those who care will get them.
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1 hour ago, Cybob19 said:
except everybody went: "what puzzle"
1 hour ago, Shredder said:I play the game every day, I’m frequently on discord and constantly in the forums. I have only heard rumour of the obelisks.
I watched streams since I was not yet fully mobile in-game when it was found.
s
5 hours ago, Distinct Mint said:An exclusive T5 ore that very few people managed to get hold of in events that weren't really accessible to the majority of the playerbase. Retaining it in game serves no purpose except for mis-guided bragging rights, and its good for the game as a whole that its deleted.
Or change my mind 🙂
I suspect we shall see it again in a big way. It could be the kind of resource that orgs would war over, or it could be put back in as a needed component of crafting something NQ wants to be very rare in-game.
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3 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:
what about the launch that i already paid for?
I'm sure NQ has put a fair amount of effort to keep as many promises as they realistically can. The Beta disclaimer we've all agreed to, "subject to change," still applies. From my perspective the game will benefit in the long run from a wipe. The short term is going to be rough but it should be worthwhile.
Production of warpcells: will it going to feel like a regular day to day job?
in General Discussions
Posted
The tools available to fine tune an interactive economy are finite. NQ had to add friction to production so that the market wouldn't be swamped early. The numbers around schematics are likely to be fine tuned after they've analyzed actual usage data. I would expect to see minor changes (hopefully time and cost reduction, possibly some increases to # runs per batch) to schematics 30-90 days post launch.