Deintus
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Posts posted by Deintus
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I think for some more principle of the matter than it is the actual dollar amount. There is a certain level of ethics in communication expected with any game studio. When some people feel like that walking has been crossed way to show they are not happy.
Besides the best way to hit any business is at their bottom line regardless of how small the actual amount is, $7 adds up when its 200 people at once.
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And just throw it in there be sure you have talents trained for using the machines as well.
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4 minutes ago, Triopalite said:
I've been saying 'Wipe' for a while now. They did a wipe in Elite Dangerous and the game just got stronger, we had all sorts of updates in SE where you lost stuff we had built, but when a game is pre 'full' release in any stage, wipes can happen, don't play if you can't cope with a wipe..
I had millions in ED, plus the best ship in beta, but when they wiped, it all went. But for the good of the game, starting with a level playing field for 'all' at release, it was very important the wipe happened, it brought lots of new players in.
A major difference is in DU, those that are "ahead" will stay ahead. Even a total and complete wipe one person can't compete against 10 as far as materials schematics and industry goes and 10 people can't compete against 30. I think that's where the major difference is why wipe when it really won't make much of a difference and everybody won't be on an equal footing anyway?
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Is this because you play DU on the 50 inch?
20 minutes ago, blazemonger said:IMO text is actually too large in the UI overall..
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I actually like the idea quite a bit. If it were easy to code into the game, I wouldn't mind streaming my Netflix or Hulu to the passengers on my ship.
Of course this would be after optimizations.
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33 minutes ago, Burble said:
Yes, the support channel sometimes gets crowded with non support writings. But...what I have seen is that many players are actively helping each other due to the whole server being on one channel. Separate that and no one who can help a new player will be in the support channel. There is no way NQ can answer to the 25 questions per minute that are currently being handled easily by the whole community.
This. When I first started a month or so ago, I had questions that tutorials and the minimal game instructions did not answer. The community there, whether talking about loose morals of mothers or just giving out the joke of the day, responded quickly, immediately, accurately. I myself have never been trolled or ridiculed there.
Yes they need better ingame communications, thats a fact. It has been asked for. Eventually it may or may not come, but in the meantime any moderation in the ONE channel we all have would serve to just anger more players.
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We have all gone over DU not being optimized so much now, the only thing this thread is doing for me atm is making me want to try CyperPunk ?
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On 12/13/2020 at 5:24 AM, DeVille said:
So, I am wondering what happens to all my stuff when my subscription lapses? If I decide to give Dual Universe another try in six months will it all still be here? Also will you start offering one month subscriptions?
Did anyone ever find an answer to these questions by OP? I would like to know also.
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This explains a lot. Seems that future economy totals would be in the quintillions. There is a LOT of growth left to do.
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7 hours ago, Eternal said:
You want to know the definition of communism? It is a command (centralized) organization which every single organization in this game is!
You misunderstand communism and what organizations are. An organization can be set up in any number of a hundred ways. The bots forcing items to be bought and sold at an exact price is a much better example of what communism is.
An organization is a group of people with similar interests or goals. It can be expanded on and i would imagine, one day allow a way to pay members and even non-members for doing jobs for example. One day. Maybe.
And I agree a thousand percent, ingame comms are non existent. What I would like to see is a standard good keyboard chat setup, but also add to this.... I think everyone using microphones should be heard about 150 meters or so away. Similar to life. It allows for spying possibilities for one thing. Also you could just quite literally walk up to someone and say, "hey how are you today?" Except of course in places with no atmosphere. You will need types of channels from planet wide to private. And add local channels funded by orgs. It would be great if these were channels similar to radio and be one way. Imagine the ads some of these people would come up with. Afterall what else are these helmets for?
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22 hours ago, michaelk said:
You can see the investor profile here: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/dual-universe/company_financials
The most recent round of investment came in 2019 for ~$11 million USD. The total raised is about $22 million, but let's focus on that $11 million for now.
Each account pays about between $6.99 and $5.83 a month for access (oh look they added a monthly sub, I thought it was a 3-month min...)
They'd need 100,000 subs to make ~$11mm in revenue in ~15 months (assuming the most expensive monthly sub)...and right now, there's no way they have 100,000 subs.
Hell, retaining half that won't be easy IMHO.
Now consider NQ's ~100 staff and considerable server costs -- which they don't operate themselves (freakin' Jeff Bezos seems to profit from anything and everything nowadays).
I highly doubt that NQ's investors are happy when they see the subscriber churn rates. The only way this works if is you have a stable and growing base of subscriptions.
The truth is, NQ did a great job pitching this product to everyone -- even investors bought into this concept and believed that retaining 50k-100k+ users would be easy.
Interesting figures. But that is not anywhere near a complete picture. I wager most of the 11 mil was to catch up on past debts to get started. From what I see they operated in the negative in the beginning. Plus there is a ton of overhead in gaming business. I mean a real and complete list, not the mandatory publicly released records. What I do see is that the investors (all 10 of them) have faith enough to pump cash in. And it seems there are 3 major investors. I doubt they are caring about short term gains, the most common thing in online games is they are considered long term investments. I am sure they know that they may not reach 11 mil in revenue next year and while I am sure they would love it, I doubt that is their goal. 99% of a brand new businesses never see any profit until 5 years after their first start.
The funny thing is that investment money is not income per se, it comes with a lot of strings and conditions. It is meant as seed money and can usually only be used for very specific things, or else you face embezzlement charges. He most likely has a time period to reach X amount of income during X amount of time span before they pull funding.
I agree that the investors may be getting nervous because, to paraphrase the game itself, it looks like they may need to do a hella lot mining by hand to recoup their investment. But there is more to it than that. And we don't know the stipulations. This is most likely the reason why NQ top brass is attempting to compromise between their vision and their customers. Other games with a secure income base would likely ignore it and just balance it out over a year or more if they even cared.
And I agree, he did a great ad campaign! If that ad is ever realized, I am sure 100k would be a walk in the park, and I am sure THAT is what they, NQ and investors alike, are shooting for.
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12 minutes ago, Emptiness said:
NQ doesn't have customers. We're paying a pittance for access, and even the backers weren't that big of a percentage. NQ is only doing this for their investors. We are nothing. NQ has been toying with us from the beginning, and we really should wise up to it and find other games to play.
It would be interesting to see a full uncensored financial statement for sure.
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12 hours ago, JayleBreak said:
Once all the cheap Pure Carbon leaves the market the sell offers will ask for more money. This is called inflation. Its good for motivating people to spend/invest money before it loses value.
A small amount of inflation is good. Run-away inflation is not. Inflation can't outpace the basic value of a monetary unit because eventually you can't make money if it costs more than people are willing to spend. A balance with availability, supply, demand... this will always exist in any modern economy. The Netherlands export of Tulip bulbs in 1636 is the earliest greatest example that I know of over an economic collapse.
In DU, there is little money, and what money people do have they are holding onto (OK most players anyway). This is a very classic market crash. Generally you have to get people spending again. Zero game and dev confidence also plays a role too remember. Why risk what I could loose tomorrow if they do something similar again?
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6 hours ago, Pleione said:
And that is exactly the problem. I don't want to be an org slave. I don't want to become the worlds best Advanced LED manufacturer. I do find exploring ED's 400 Billion stars to be a draw vs. the dozen'ish planets in DU.
Lets look at a bit of what was promised in the original roadmap (JC YouTube, August 8th, 2018):
Alpha 1 (Nov 2018): Craft your components: produce the interactive components you need for your bases and ships. Today: Specialize and make a few components.
Alpha 2 (1H19): Become an industrialist: setup factories to mass produce vehicles for you, your friends or sell them on the market. Today: Specialize and make a few components. Note the 1st person in the original description. Not "Join and org and...".
Alpha 2 (1H19): Set-up your own markets and trading centers, become a mogul and build a trade empire. Today: Economy feature for Release in 2021 along with Economy Specialization at Release. Original feature pushed to Post Release.
Beta (1H20): Galaxy: reach for the stars, discover and explore new solar systems. Today: Post Release - enjoy some new planets we will release sometime in the future. All planets will be a hybrid of hand customized (for beauty) and proceeduralized (for bulk). Hand customization means discovery will only be those those planets NQ releases. No galaxy, no 400 Billion Stars - just a few dozen planets as time permits.
Others have called it as I see it: The game is evolving from a sandbox to a micromanaged economy simulator, and in so doing, is losing the interest of a lot of its original backers. Add to that a horrible Customer Service experience (never good, worse since Beta release), lack of communication from NQ (although they repeatedly have promised to do better), information leaks, failure to fix basic bugs/game stability, shutting down API's that allowed us to see actual player counts, refusal to wipe and level set, half-baked undos of patches that primarily benefit the orgs, etc. and its just been too much. Now with the streamers disappearing (a very bad sign), it just feels like this potentially great game is in a death spiral.
The game needs STRONG leadership, the type of strength that shows vision, the willingness to admit errors and LISTEN to the player base, to go forward with transparency, to acknowledged fixing things is simply counter-productive (think about all the cores that have been replaced due to 0.23, then a week later no longer needing to be replaced - it could take them weeks to analyze logs and give them back, presuming such players had space available, doing something else if not (e.g. all the problems that people exploited or were victims off)) and wiping instead, and an understanding that original direction promised in the early days is what got them the funding they have - changing the game direction is probably not in their best interest.
I continue to watch (play a little) and unfortunately continue to be disappointed.
Agreed
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2 hours ago, michaelk said:
2. NQ's response doesn't change the math, here -- which says that ambitious project + no game dev experience equals a bad time. Are they changing how they approach design changes, or just reacting to criticism? Have they learned...anything?
That is actually an excellent question. I work for a 'cutting edge' company that appears to be spiraling wildly between what the company claims they want, and how they demonstrate it extremely poorly by largely dismissing customers and employees alike. Their excuse is the same 'new company', 'never been done before', 'nothing like it' and such.
Even if this were the first game ever created, business fundamentals 101 should logically always prevail. Don't make sudden, unannounced changes in ANYTHING. Make your objectives crystal clear in a report, not one-liners, and never NEVER ignore your customers.
I ask two similar questions rephrased: What EXACTLY did NQ learn? What EXACTLY are they going to do to move forward and to avert anything on this scale from ever happening again?
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While it looks like @Massacher still wants the money, it seems the point he is making is the extremely obtuse response and run-around he received as well. I think they could have at least explained the why. If it's because of a contractual obligation then say so. Maybe quote the section of contract as a response. I can agree that the way they handled it could have been better.
But my bet is the money is non-refundable.
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My take away:
They (NQ) at least heard the majority of the community to do something like this. Whether it was because of a hit to the pocketbook, or just the good (yes there was some) feedback that most likely came to them through a combination of discord, support tickets and the forum, it looks like they are attempting to slow down a crippling blow while they work on other areas to make this more than a type of 'minecraft in space'. While I am still skeptical, after seeing NQ's response in a relatively short time seems promising to me.
My thoughts:
It looks like an olive branch offering and doesn't fix everything, however, it appears to be an honest attempt. I realize they are likely to re-implement the full force of the black update but am willing to consider it AFTER they fix the bugs, make other income available, get rid of bots, etc. I agree with many that the game was released too early but well, here it is and I highly doubt there's anyway to turn back now for NQ. It's likely become an all or nothing situation for them.
My basic suggestions in this order:
1 - Go through all those suggestions they say they read again and consider one final reversal to some of the changes.
2 - Begin correcting all the major crashing/lagging bugs that stick us in the middle of an invisible tower or explodes us inexplicably. Set up rights better and get the junk off the field. I still think using the game launcher as a way to make announcements would be good.
3 - Create as many other game play opportunities with rewards as possible. Skeletal frameworks would even be helpful. Create a couple of NPC orgs with a basic reputation system available to be seen by all. Continue with ways for players to effectively communicate ingame whether everyone is logged in or not. Give players a way to exchange money directly for now with better improvements later. Work on tutorials that assist in whatever type of play is currently ingame, such as miner, industry, pirate. Those can give a beginning player just enough to start at the bottom of their chosen field. After this cut the welfare check down but not out.
4 - Move to a basic, much better, PvP system. Fix the core repair system. Make a repair control chair to open up engineering on a ship so someone can effect repairs while in flight. We need the truckers to haul. When they are hauling, they need to be aware from the start players may attack so this isn't a big shock to them later. GET RID OF THE MARKET BOTS PLEASE. By this time, other basic income from missions, players paying players, should be emerging.
5 - Make a list of the most popular, wanted, used jobs that the players have at this time and make a list. i.e. miners, merchants, haulers, pirates, police, factories, explorers, creators, market moguls, salvagers, and anything else that may crop up that noone can foresee right now. Expand a bit more in the PvE and drop the welfare check completely if the market can handle it.
6 - Divide NQ devs team into content and development with monster share in development. Have the content team expand on the NPC side, pre-created missions, ships, etc. and they rotate through that list, adding something or improving NPC's for miners, then merchants, and so-on, nerfing or buffing where needed. Have the Development team work on the overall end dream of the game. Add the major ideas of the game like extra solar systems, territory warfare, expanding the UI of all aspects of the game, etc.
All of these steps or any steps you already have, should ALWAYS be fluid... think OOP where you can change or add as makes sense. Steps in a game like this should never be rigid or set in stone. I could go into much further detail, but don't see a reason to at this time. Hopefully some of my suggestions at least make sense, I just got off work in RL and am already tired. ?
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As in real life, what looks good on paper....
....is never the creators fault but those who use it?
That was my take-away.
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I'm not on that level of play by any means, I was just expanding into tier 2 and beginning mass production of medium basic space engines when "The Black Patch" dropped and crippled me.
So far I managed to grab enough schematics for screws, burners, and frames and just producing those and K2 fuel until my ore runs out. I am just collecting my check, setting a short run, exiting to go play another game these days.
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6 hours ago, Pathalogical Functor said:
I suspect the bots are there to maintain some semblance of progression for new players. Aside from the daily login bonus, those bots are the only source of new money in the game. Schematics are a huge money sink, so without money faucets you get currency deflation. Deflation rewards people for hoarding their money instead of spending it, driving down prices even more. This means that a new player would need to mine for even longer before they could afford enough schematics to set up a proper industry.
This is where the appropriate, easy to find, finished tutorials could give the player a jump start in the direction they want to go. Want to do industry, do several tutorials that covers all industry aspects and come out with enough machines and schematics (no ore) to make a tier 2 product. This could be done for all game jobs/aspects available in the game. (Well, eventually)
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40 minutes ago, Mordgier said:
Yeah but that's largely because mining in DU is terrible. It's a space ship game where you mine by hand. Make ships mine and it's a better game right away.
It's absolute lunacy that we are hand mining in a space ship game.
I know that on their road map to completion they have slated "mining units for automation" but no clue when that will be or what that means. Ship mounted? Different sizes? Will they need schematics as well for each ore type to mine? Based on what I have seen in my short time, the vagueness of the statement is very scary.
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1 hour ago, Revelcro said:
There is virtually nothing they could add to this game to make me want to play this for years. Nothing. It is simply not possible. No game can do that. At best they can squeeze a year or so of game play out. At some point i'm sick of space/sci-fi and will go on to something else. Holy cow what game have you guys been playing?!?
ED has been my return to game for 4 years now, I rotate my gaming so to speak, but if its good, I always return.
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42 minutes ago, NQ-Naunet said:
You're welcome! I like having things on the forums, too.
Thank you for the feedback on our general messaging. I understand that "soon" and "it takes time" are a bit of a meme these days!
In a perfect world, how would you like to be communicated with when we aren't able to share a definitive date but still want you to know that certain things are looming on the horizon?
Since the current methods are limited for the site, The first would be a complete disclosure and update on the main site https://www.dualuniverse.game/
On game startup. Have an up to the minute (as possible, with current people who handle the news/discord already) list of gaming information on the game launcher itself. Many games do this so that if you play the game, you see the change.
Having an email subscription option would be nice, essentially a bi-weekly or monthly letter emailed to subscribers with latest and newest information. Ingame org drama could be a filler if no news is forthcoming.
Of course the update on the forums.
And a discord announcement wouldn't hurt just before major drops. Most likely I am missing everything released on the game, as demonstrated elsewhere, somethings like patch notes do not get seen by me when they are seemingly buried. So everyone here may already know how to get discord announcements.
*EDIT - I personally think that Elite Dangerous Launcher is a great example with what I am thinking.
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in General Discussions
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Maybe ability to change font size along with better font typeface will roll out with new optimizations?
Somehow though, i get the feeling something this, forgive the pun, small and easy to do would be waayy down the road. So it may be time to go to the eye doctor again for me. ?