prophet224

I have to say, I'm of 2 minds about this. For reference, I'm a fairly new player. Love the concept, but very stuck in a 'beta' where there are huge changes all the time, incomplete functionality, and enormous gaps between players/groups based largely on when you joined and what changed along the way. 

That said... 
Yes, industry should take time and effort; this makes sense. 
Building a reason to make more use of the markets and create a richer economy also makes sense. 
Even an overall slow ramp makes sense in this kind of game. 
 
However...
If a player comes to this game because they want to build and design (me for example), and they are forced to, effectively, only mine for a month or two, they will leave the game. Especially since the mining mechanic is generally terrible right now and frankly, will lead to carpal tunnel and boredom. (I mention carpal tunnel as a vet of 'Mankind' where I literally got carpal tunnel because of all the extra click requirements due to poor UI design.)
 
Proposing a possible 'solution': 
Schematics for later tier items only. A new-ish player should be able to make a simple ship or base with the nanopack and some mining; schematics really should only be for more advanced items. This simple change to the devblog-discussed upcoming changes would allow new players flexibility of play and allow specialization for entrepreneurs while still pushing the market. 
 
All of that said, there are basic design precedence issues in the way changes like this are occurring:
Bear with me as these are steps to the argument, not true bullet points.
* Industry sits atop more basic functions such as mining, buying/selling, and nano-builds. 
* As such, the more fundamental functions must be properly working prior to adding time / headache / player work to industry (or any other higher-level function, like PVP)
* A new player in the post-industry modification world will have 2 and only 2 ways to make money: 1. Mine and sell (assuming bots remain open), 2. Daily allowance
* The daily allowance is already heavily limiting if we must buy from the market (and if industry investment goes up so will the prices)
* Mining and selling without a container is long, slow, boring and *self-limiting* because there are finite resources
 
Thus, in effect, you are implementing a strategy that will expand the gap between old and new players, force new players into one and only one play style, forcing prices up (most likely) while not providing reasonable funding methods for newer players, and forcing new people not only into 1 play style but into a self-limiting mechanic that is not fun for many people, eventually mind-numbing even for those that like it, and extremely limiting anyway with the starting resources (pack size and no container). 

Compare this to another MMO game - all new players come into the game at the same level, but with some different abilities (note we don't even have that here, everyone starts off the same). Some will go do quests, some will go kill bad guys, some will go do quests that require killing bad guys or squirrels or something. The next quest might be wolves, etc. This is a pretty standard trope and it is one of the more frustrating points for almost all MMORPGs. 

What this game is currently doing is taking the new player and (to retain the analogy), giving every single new player the same ability scores, same armor, and your only quest for the first 1-2 months is to kill squirrels and bring back pelts. Not fighting wolves or some other creature. Not upgrading armor. Not finding new weapons and equipment. Squirrels all the time, with the same devices, and the promise that 'eventually' you can save up enough that we will let you fight something else... one day. Except that the mining mechanic isn't even as engaging as fighting a squirrel. You are feeding all new players into exactly the noted worst part of many MMO games.
 
The mining mechanic needs tweaked. 
We need PVE that provides rewards and that new players can take part in.
We need basic (only basic) production to remain accessible to newer players without a massive 'paywall'. 

Yes, industry needs a revamp. 
Please fix and expand the foundation before you start on the first floor or the attic. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

I have to say, I'm of 2 minds about this. For reference, I'm a fairly new player. Love the concept, but very stuck in a 'beta' where there are huge changes all the time, incomplete functionality, and enormous gaps between players/groups based largely on when you joined and what changed along the way. 

That said... 
Yes, industry should take time and effort; this makes sense. 
Building a reason to make more use of the markets and create a richer economy also makes sense. 
Even an overall slow ramp makes sense in this kind of game. 
 
However...
If a player comes to this game because they want to build and design (me for example), and they are forced to, effectively, only mine for a month or two, they will leave the game. Especially since the mining mechanic is generally terrible right now and frankly, will lead to carpal tunnel and boredom. (I mention carpal tunnel as a vet of 'Mankind' where I literally got carpal tunnel because of all the extra click requirements due to poor UI design.)
 
Proposing a possible 'solution': 
Schematics for later tier items only. A new-ish player should be able to make a simple ship or base with the nanopack and some mining; schematics really should only be for more advanced items. This simple change to the devblog-discussed upcoming changes would allow new players flexibility of play and allow specialization for entrepreneurs while still pushing the market. 
 
All of that said, there are basic design precedence issues in the way changes like this are occurring:
Bear with me as these are steps to the argument, not true bullet points.
* Industry sits atop more basic functions such as mining, buying/selling, and nano-builds. 
* As such, the more fundamental functions must be properly working prior to adding time / headache / player work to industry (or any other higher-level function, like PVP)
* A new player in the post-industry modification world will have 2 and only 2 ways to make money: 1. Mine and sell (assuming bots remain open), 2. Daily allowance
* The daily allowance is already heavily limiting if we must buy from the market (and if industry investment goes up so will the prices)
* Mining and selling without a container is long, slow, boring and *self-limiting* because there are finite resources
 
Thus, in effect, you are implementing a strategy that will expand the gap between old and new players, force new players into one and only one play style, forcing prices up (most likely) while not providing reasonable funding methods for newer players, and forcing new people not only into 1 play style but into a self-limiting mechanic that is not fun for many people, eventually mind-numbing even for those that like it, and extremely limiting anyway with the starting resources (pack size and no container). 

Compare this to another MMO game - all new players come into the game at the same level, but with some different abilities (note we don't even have that here, everyone starts off the same). Some will go do quests, some will go kill bad guys, some will go do quests that require killing bad guys or squirrels or something. The next quest might be wolves, etc. This is a pretty standard trope and it is one of the more frustrating points for almost all MMORPGs. 

What this game is currently doing is taking the new player and (to retain the analogy), giving every single new player the same ability scores, same armor, and your only quest for the first 1-2 months is to kill squirrels and bring back pelts. Not fighting wolves or some other creature. Not upgrading armor. Not finding new weapons and equipment. Squirrels all the time, with the same devices, and the promise that 'eventually' you can save up enough that we will let you fight something else... one day. Except that the mining mechanic isn't even as engaging as fighting a squirrel. You are feeding all new players into exactly the noted worst part of many MMO games.
 
The mining mechanic needs tweaked. 
We need PVE that provides rewards and that new players can take part in.
We need basic (only basic) production to remain accessible to newer players without a massive 'paywall'. 

Yes, industry needs a revamp. 
Please fix and expand the foundation before you start on the first floor or the attic. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

I have to say, I'm of 2 minds about this. For reference, I'm a fairly new player. Love the concept, but very stuck in a 'beta' where there are huge changes all the time, incomplete functionality, and enormous gaps between players/groups based largely on when you joined and what changed along the way. 

That said... 
Yes, industry should take time and effort; this makes sense. 
Building a reason to make more use of the markets and create a richer economy also makes sense. 
Even an overall slow ramp makes sense in this kind of game. 
 
However...
If a player comes to this game because they want to build and design (me for example), and they are forced to, effectively, only mine for a month or two, they will leave the game. Especially since the mining mechanic is generally terrible right now and frankly, will lead to carpal tunnel and boredom. (I mention carpal tunnel as a vet of 'Mankind' where I literally got carpal tunnel because of all the extra click requirements due to poor UI design.)
 
Proposing a possible 'solution': 
Schematics for later tier items only. A new-ish player should be able to make a simple ship or base with the nanopack and some mining; schematics really should only be for more advanced items. This simple change to the devblog-discussed upcoming changes would allow new players flexibility of play and allow specialization for entrepreneurs while still pushing the market. 
 
All of that said, there are basic design precedence issues in the way changes like this are occurring:
Bear with me as these are steps to the argument, not true bullet points.
* Industry sits atop more basic functions such as mining, buying/selling, and nano-builds. 
* As such, the more fundamental functions must be properly working prior to adding time / headache / player work to industry (or any other higher-level function, like PVP)
* A new player in the post-industry modification world will have 2 and only 2 ways to make money: 1. Mine and sell (assuming bots remain open), 2. Daily allowance
* The daily allowance is already heavily limiting if we must buy from the market (and if industry investment goes up so will the prices)
* Mining and selling without a container is long, slow, boring and *self-limiting* because there are finite resources
 
Thus, in effect, you are implementing a strategy that will expand the gap between old and new players, force new players into one and only one play style, forcing prices up (most likely) while not providing reasonable funding methods for newer players, and forcing new people not only into 1 play style but into a self-limiting mechanic that is not fun for many people, eventually mind-numbing even for those that like it, and extremely limiting anyway with the starting resources (pack size and no container). 

Compare this to another MMO game - all new players come into the game at the same level, but with some different abilities (note we don't even have that here, everyone starts off the same). Some will go do quests, some will go kill bad guys, some will go do quests that require killing bad guys or squirrels or something. The next quest might be wolves, etc. This is a pretty standard trope and it is one of the more frustrating points for almost all MMORPGs. 

What this game is currently doing is taking the new player and (to retain the analogy), giving every single new player the same ability scores, same armor, and your only quest for the first 1-2 months is to kill squirrels and bring back pelts. Not fighting wolves or some other creature. Not upgrading armor. Not finding new weapons and equipment. Squirrels all the time, with the same devices, and the promise that 'eventually' you can save up enough that we will let you fight something else... one day. Except that the mining mechanic isn't even as engaging as fighting a squirrel. You are feeding all new players into exactly the noted worst part of many MMO games.
 
The mining mechanic needs tweaked. 
We need PVE that provides rewards and that new players can take part in.
We need basic (only basic) production to remain accessible to newer players without a massive 'paywall'. 

Yes, industry needs a revamp. 
Please fix and expand the foundation before you start on the first floor or the attic. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

I have to say, I'm of 2 minds about this. For reference, I'm a fairly new player. Love the concept, but very stuck in a 'beta' where there are huge changes all the time, incomplete functionality, and enormous gaps between players/groups based largely on when you joined and what changed along the way. 

That said... 
Yes, industry should take time and effort; this makes sense. 
Building a reason to make more use of the markets and create a richer economy also makes sense. 
Even an overall slow ramp makes sense in this kind of game. 
 
However...
If a player comes to this game because they want to build and design (me for example), and they are forced to, effectively, only mine for a month or two, they will leave the game. Especially since the mining mechanic is generally terrible right now and frankly, will lead to carpal tunnel and boredom. (I mention carpal tunnel as a vet of 'Mankind' where I literally got carpal tunnel because of all the extra click requirements due to poor UI design.)
 
Proposing a possible 'solution': 
Schematics for later tier items only. A new-ish player should be able to make a simple ship or base with the nanopack and some mining; schematics really should only be for more advanced items. This simple change to the devblog-discussed upcoming changes would allow new players flexibility of play and allow specialization for entrepreneurs while still pushing the market. 
 
All of that said, there are basic design precedence issues in the way changes like this are occurring:
Bear with me as these are steps to the argument, not true bullet points.
* Industry sits atop more basic functions such as mining, buying/selling, and nano-builds. 
* As such, the more fundamental functions must be properly working prior to adding time / headache / player work to industry (or any other higher-level function, like PVP)
* A new player in the post-industry modification world will have 2 and only 2 ways to make money: 1. Mine and sell (assuming bots remain open), 2. Daily allowance
* The daily allowance is already heavily limiting if we must buy from the market (and if industry investment goes up so will the prices)
* Mining and selling without a container is long, slow, boring and *self-limiting* because there are finite resources
 
Thus, in effect, you are implementing a strategy that will expand the gap between old and new players, force new players into one and only one play style, forcing prices up (most likely) while not providing reasonable funding methods for newer players, and forcing new people not only into 1 play style but into a self-limiting mechanic that is not fun for many people, eventually mind-numbing even for those that like it, and extremely limiting anyway with the starting resources (pack size and no container). 

Compare this to another MMO game - all new players come into the game at the same level, but with some different abilities (note we don't even have that here, everyone starts off the same). Some will go do quests, some will go kill bad guys, some will go do quests that require killing bad guys or squirrels or something. The next quest might be wolves, etc. This is a pretty standard trope and it is one of the more frustrating points for almost all MMORPGs. 

What this game is currently doing is taking the new player and (to retain the analogy), giving every single new player the same ability scores, same armor, and your only quest for the first 1-2 months is to kill squirrels and bring back pelts. Not fighting wolves or some other creature. Not upgrading armor. Not finding new weapons and equipment. Squirrels all the time, with the same devices, and the promise that 'eventually' you can save up enough that we will let you fight something else... one day. Except that the mining mechanic isn't even as engaging as fighting a squirrel. You are feeding all new players into exactly the noted worst part of many MMO games.
 
The mining mechanic needs tweaked. 
We need PVE that provides rewards and that new players can take part in.
We need basic (only basic) production to remain accessible to newer players without a massive 'paywall'. 

Yes, industry needs a revamp. 
Please fix and expand the foundation before you start on the first floor or the attic. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

I have to say, I'm of 2 minds about this. For reference, I'm a fairly new player. Love the concept, but very stuck in a 'beta' where there are huge changes all the time, incomplete functionality, and enormous gaps between players/groups based largely on when you joined and what changed along the way. 

That said... 
Yes, industry should take time and effort; this makes sense. 
Building a reason to make more use of the markets and create a richer economy also makes sense. 
Even an overall slow ramp makes sense in this kind of game. 
 
However...
If a player comes to this game because they want to build and design (me for example), and they are forced to, effectively, only mine for a month or two, they will leave the game. Especially since the mining mechanic is generally terrible right now and frankly, will lead to carpal tunnel and boredom. (I mention carpal tunnel as a vet of 'Mankind' where I literally got carpal tunnel because of all the extra click requirements due to poor UI design.)
 
Proposing a possible 'solution': 
Schematics for later tier items only. A new-ish player should be able to make a simple ship or base with the nanopack and some mining; schematics really should only be for more advanced items. This simple change to the devblog-discussed upcoming changes would allow new players flexibility of play and allow specialization for entrepreneurs while still pushing the market. 
 
All of that said, there are basic design precedence issues in the way changes like this are occurring:
Bear with me as these are steps to the argument, not true bullet points.
* Industry sits atop more basic functions such as mining, buying/selling, and nano-builds. 
* As such, the more fundamental functions must be properly working prior to adding time / headache / player work to industry (or any other higher-level function, like PVP)
* A new player in the post-industry modification world will have 2 and only 2 ways to make money: 1. Mine and sell (assuming bots remain open), 2. Daily allowance
* The daily allowance is already heavily limiting if we must buy from the market (and if industry investment goes up so will the prices)
* Mining and selling without a container is long, slow, boring and *self-limiting* because there are finite resources
 
Thus, in effect, you are implementing a strategy that will expand the gap between old and new players, force new players into one and only one play style, forcing prices up (most likely) while not providing reasonable funding methods for newer players, and forcing new people not only into 1 play style but into a self-limiting mechanic that is not fun for many people, eventually mind-numbing even for those that like it, and extremely limiting anyway with the starting resources (pack size and no container). 

Compare this to another MMO game - all new players come into the game at the same level, but with some different abilities (note we don't even have that here, everyone starts off the same). Some will go do quests, some will go kill bad guys, some will go do quests that require killing bad guys or squirrels or something. The next quest might be wolves, etc. This is a pretty standard trope and it is one of the more frustrating points for almost all MMORPGs. 

What this game is currently doing is taking the new player and (to retain the analogy), giving every single new player the same ability scores, same armor, and your only quest for the first 1-2 months is to kill squirrels and bring back pelts. Not fighting wolves or some other creature. Not upgrading armor. Not finding new weapons and equipment. Squirrels all the time, with the same devices, and the promise that 'eventually' you can save up enough that we will let you fight something else... one day. Except that the mining mechanic isn't even as engaging as fighting a squirrel. You are feeding all new players into exactly the noted worst part of many MMO games.
 
The mining mechanic needs tweaked. 
We need PVE that provides rewards and that new players can take part in.
We need basic (only basic) production to remain accessible to newer players without a massive 'paywall'. 

Yes, industry needs a revamp. 
Please fix and expand the foundation before you start on the first floor or the attic. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

So this is a terrible solution to a real problem. All it does is put a monetary roadblock in front of monetary income. A better solution would be an exponentially escalating cost to the size of factories that was tied to a character account. So 1 assembler is cheap 5 a bit more expensive 10 is astronomical or something like that. 

This plan was clearly dreamed up by folks that want to create a barrier to entry that they themselves can overcome and will create and protect monopolies. I mean seriously, did anyone at NQ pay attention in Econ 101 ? 
 
This is insanely stupid and will make the existing problem of giga factories worse. in that only a few will have them and dominate the market. 
 

So, I quite like this change, but it's absolutely not something that can be injected into the game in the state it is.

There is little enough for players to do in the game at the moment. This will make building constructs significantly harder for people, taking that activity out of reach of many. That leaves us mining, and flying around in space shooting at other ships. With little to no reason to engage in the latter.

If this is something that's going to work, it needs the whole game to be on board.
 
Atmospheric combat, not just space Incentive to engage in combat (strategic benefit to holding certain areas such as fighting over resources) Resource sinks such as power to make sure that, once up and running, there's an ongoing cost to running a factory other than feeding it mats. And most crucially...
A full, comprehensive wipe. Skills, mats, resources, reset the planets, delete all constructs, start all players back at the arkship.
 
Potentially allow people to keep blueprints so that all the design time that's gone into those isn't lost, but that's it.

If you make T0 available... Stone, rocks, marble, brick, slate, wood, glass, concrete for almost free to compensate for the insane about of grind you are going to be forcing on people... remember, there are no artifacts, relics or research to pay with when the Org Cartels charge through the roof for everything. You can ONLY earn by mining...

Think you'll make bank by selling ships? Think again, theyll cost millions to make because the org cartels will be the only ones now capable of filling the markets and the chumps will have to mine their arses off for hours just to pay the Org tax...

At the least, if they keep T1 somewhat as it is now: i.e. no stupid blueprints... er.. I mean schematics... Then maybe I'm ok with this... I came into this game for the endless building possibilities... But if I am now forced to "play" ten hours of rock dentist just to pay to make some conglomerate rich, well, that's a bit too close to the real life I'm trying to avoid by playing a computer game in the first place...

A big, massive steaming fly strewn NOPE from me.

Death of the game for individuals/small groups. Markets are totally inviable right now because they're a garbage heap of shitty, ugly and half destroyed ships and stacks of containers. Also, markets are intermittently broken. Remote buying doesn't work all the time for some people, there's a massive arbitrary number in the quantity box for selling items to buy orders. Why force your small group/individual players to deal with what's currently the worst part of the game. Try fixing all the myriad issues with markets before forcing people to markets
 
Might at well say, "Well, this game is really only designed for mega orgs with billions of resources, piss off all you filthy casuals."

Soo, I need significant capital to buy these 'recipes'.  Ok, how does a new player get quanta ah yes they mine and mine and mine some more.  Well, that's not exactly engaging game play is it?  I guess it could be worse.  NQ could do something monumentally stupid like nerf mining.  Imagine if someone at NQ was off their fckng rocker enough to propose something to make mining even more tedious like perhaps slaughtering the linked container range?  Only a complete imbecile would contemplate that..... right??

Can there please be some rule to keep on topic in these NQ made posts? (and posts breaking it please be removed?)

Anyway, what happens if I want to change the schematic? Do I need to manually take the old one out and put the new one in? This would mean only dedicated lines make sense. Can the game at least automatically check if I have the recipe for whatever I set the machine to in my inventory and apply it? It already takes hours to make the most simple things because of all the tedium, server lag and lack of QoL features. I totally get what you are trying to to do, but if it means I need to do even more un-fun repetetive tasks that don’t feel like a game, I don’t know how much longer I stay.
 
Do some kinda schematic storage, connect it to the core. Let the game take/put back recipes automatically and you have your desired effect without extra tedium.