BlackFalcon375

Well.. If I use my tinfoil hat...
 
1) NQ won't remove safezones because of carebears.  And I don't mean builders or industry players or haulers... I mean carebears. It's a state of mind.
 
 
2) NQ won't remove safezones because they can't. We have never seen pvp on planets. Not in any video ever. Why is that? Considering they don't even have raycasting obstruction, pvp would be asanine on planets. I reiterate. We have not ever seen even a dev screenshot of atmo pvp. At all. Space pvp Is a shitfest. Because it was cobbled together half hazardly to tick the roadmap pvp box. It's not even designed for atmo pvp. It's an engineering abomination at its current state. The reason we have such large no pvp zones around planets is likely to do with performance reasons first. The reason every planet is a safezone is because the current pvp system only sorta kinda works in open space. Safezones are a way to restrict the lackluster unperformant  pvp mechanics to only open space.

Yep.
There are like Empires with hundreds of thousands of players that are currently fighting over delve to have that precious farming spot and news sites covering every week fights etc. What we have in DU ? ATOM trying to create content and have to helplessly watch at people warping back and forth. "Fleet fights" are like 5 vs 5 max lol. Another stupid idea like "madis battleground" in that other thread where people just want "to battle" button at the top of the screen etc. Ha, and of course some stupid "PVP EVENT" like another starwars thingy in "emergent gameplay" game.
 

They are a problem because there is only 1 game loop: mine, refine, produce, sell/use.
 
You can't "balance" when there is only 1 thing, you can't move anything as there is nowhere to move.
 
If we have NPC missions that give quanta as reward (and remove all the bot buy orders) the problem will be fixed. The ore price will settle wherever it should settle per player market.
 
NPC missions will inject quanta the same way other games inject quanta by you farming mobs or doing quests or whatever else PVE activity. This will not affect market that much as bot buy orders.
 
NPC haul missions can have a risk vs reward too, it's pretty simple actually:
 
Transport 10kt of stuff from Alioth to Madis. Reward = 2mil (low risk low reward).
Transport 10kt of stuff from Alioth to Locobus. Reward = 10mil (high risk high reward).
500k "colleteral". If you break the box you get like sand or something that doesn't even worth 500k.
 

This is what we are talking about.
PVP is not just about "go there to PVP" there should be a reward. Something you can only get when you PVP. High tier ore is what in most games does it but NQ foolishly allowed every noob to buy a 1mil warp drive and be king of T5 with the only downside is that the mining circle grows slower... That's dumb.
 

If you can't get T5 without the risk of your ship getting blown to peaces T5 is "high profit".
 
You want high profit ? Risk venturing out to pvp space to get it not warp in, mine, warp out. Have unavoidable risk of losing something to get it.
 
This concept is called risk vs reward and it works in all successful games.

Ya, lets look at the reality of that.  "Be Whatever you want".  Well what if I want to be the dictator of Alioth?  Cant can I?  But what we can look at, is the multiple times it talked about Sanctuary being the only true "safe zone".  How the game is now, its made it kinda pointless to be there.  I can claim a tile on alioth/madis/Thades and no one can do anything about it, as it will remain there...
 

NQ definitely takes the blame for this.  But Im really curious as to why they are making such horrible decisions.  The people that come into this forum that try to bash the "pvp" crowd for wanting what was originally promised definitely share some blame too, and there mentality is toxic as fuck.  For the carebears out there I can give you a break down ok so pay attention.  We were promised by kickstarter that DU would have "emergent gameplay" (cant have that unless I can effect your gameplay, positively, or negatively depending on your POV).  There was also suppose to be a heavy focus on PvP (there hasnt been, its still not here a few months from official release, and doesnt even work when u try it).  Sanc Moon was suppose to be only safe zone.  Yet you carebears come in wanting this to be "landmark 2" or whatever, but you are actively trying to be vocal against what was pitched at kickstarter. 
 
 Now for me, and other pvpers, who are well adjusted adults, you dont see us going into other games to change what they are.  Take for example, Fort Night.  Game is terrible for me and my tastes.  But you know what? Im glad it exists, and i'm glad its there for people who enjoy that and get to play a game and play with friends and have a great time.  What I dont do is go to that games forums and make posts like "wtf why cant a kill someone in a lobby, why cant I have a team of 20 and everyone else only a team of 2.   Thats essentially what the carebears are doing when they say "Why should I let you shoot my hauler!!".  GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME.  Not every game is for you,  And a lot of us are fed up, because we respect other games that want to be what they are, but when we want a FFA space pvp game (which was pitched to us in Kickstarter/Alpha) of course we are gonna rage when it shifts away from that.  And of course we gonna be pissed.  But hey, the proof is in the pudding.  Look at twtich, or any other metric and you will see how many people actually currently play the game while its a "build only safe haven".  EVERY single person that a recommended to play and try DU since last 2+ years has quit.  I've persaonlly got over 10 of my gaming friends to buy an alpha pack or to sub a beta.  Not one is left.  

Exactly.
 
The only way to have almost infinite endgame goal is to have PVP as you can never fully "win" it. You can never achieve total domination. EvE proves it. So many years and there are still tens of thousands constantly online in game (yes they show it in launcher).
 
Even people that will never actually PVP keep playing due to believing they will one day become bad ass pirates and kill everyone, they just need that marauder lvl5 to complete...
It keeps them engaged, it keeps them believing there is something to work for.

NQ at Kickstarter to get money from players: There will be PVP everywhere other than sanct moon
Players: Throwing money at NQ to fund the game
 
NQ at beta start: PVP will be "limited", Madis/Alioth/Thades will be safe forever, no idea what we need sanct for. In practice, you don't ever PVP as there is no reason to.
Players: Frack this
 
NQ: Hmm, why player numbers are falling, didn't they want to rebuild their Star destroyer for the 123rd time with 2 left voxels painted with the new tool now ? That's content !

There is a reason EvE is still running after almost 2 decades, and Landmark was Axed before it even lasted 1 year.  People aren't going to pay a sub for literal years/decades to sit and build.  There are other games that let you do that that are a one time purchase, such as Space Engineers.  

Why developers ignore space is not clear. people want more gameplay in space and not just fly and warp from A to B.
below I will write how it seems to me that you can implement simply and quickly in space...
 
NQ, maybe you already make some goals in the pvp zone for pvp players. if you can't make interesting missions in pvp or asteroids, then you can at least try to do this: you have a system of markets on the planets in PVP, but since they are useless and there is no atmo pvp on the planets, and it is not realistic to make a siege of the planet with the presence of safe zones around these planets. you can not be stupid and make markets in pvp zones in space, and give out NPC missions there for the delivery of cargo with a good profit from the sale of goods . and allow there full pvp, without safe zones. markets cannot be destroyed. I think this will create the first precindent in pvp zones in the battles for the trade route that is profitable in the money . think with your head! you have it... and just do something that will unite the pvp players and corporations
 
such dangerous trade routes in pvp would be enough for us to expect your cool pvp gameplay in the atmosphere or asteroids.

The magic safe zone destroys the sand box and eventually kills the game, other than people logging on to create art projects.
 
Real fighting is confined to areas outside the bubble that are small. They are then what amounts to a slap fight in which one side is going to take advantage of exploits to get their ship to safety because they don't want to face consequences should they start to lose.
 It's annoying that as the big draw of space battle is forced further and further into a corner, people are fawning over territorial warfare and planetary fighting. And what's going to happen is, sure that there's going to be territorial warfare, but then the goal post will be moved again.  The creative lithovores start crying that Space City 1 is under attack, then they put in place a whole slew of stupid rules and mechanics to make the game protect them because they are too antisocial to protect themselves.
The other day on the main discord, I was watching the chat roll, and the most badass discussions I thought came up about people having to convoy their ships to defend each other! Massive emergent gaming is the concept of people banning together to face a common threat! Each rule or modification to appease the players who want to exert power over their environments that they have not won prevents individuals from grouping up in reality. It causes individuals not to want to be social.  Every inch ground the developers offer to the nerdlings who want to create their super duper death star in "peace", ruins the game for hundreds in the future.
 
1.) At the top of the development list, addressing the exploits in PVP should be ranked. As there is no PVE, PVP is what is going to push this game. And it would be an easy win. You don't need people to be programmed.
 
2.) Second on the list should be PVP balancing. It's got to remain a challenge, I guess. The curve for learning must be steep. And that's what makes it interesting! It provides people with the need to be innovative. But it should also be engaging and stimulating.
 
3.) The bubble has to go down. The only protected place is the Sanctuary Moon and the space surrounding it.
 
4.) Get the PVP right in space, then think about territorial warfare and PVP in the atmosphere.
 
People want voxel tools and all that stuff, though I would personally think that addressing this and things like the whole voxelmancy crap and actually incorporating it into the game would be fantastic. To foster team play and rivalry, it does NOTHING. The PVP will drive the game. It is the entropy that makes it possible for industry.

This was my long winded way of saying the JC interview was frustrating.