kulkija

From pvp to the topic. This new schematics system and more tedious industry will hurt pvp too.

Yup. Legion and other pvp orgs. Hurry.

@NQ Do not implement this change.

Hmm https://dualuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Artificial_Intelligence This explains a lot. Should we revolt?

Many times these Kick starter rounds are done to demonstrate to investors that there is customers who are willing to pay.

True. How ever those markets are created using Dispenser by creative way. Even those dispensers were short period disabled... Aphelia's monopoly has superiors Technology in use, comparing to dispensers based shops. Due to clumsy RDMS it is hard to enable other players to sell their stuff on same player run shop. When D=Duties feature is missing in RDMS shop owner can not set up any taxes or other fees like Aphelia monopoly syndicate can. Player shops are not connected to global inventory and exchange system (Nanocarfter market interface) So even so little chance to compete with Aphelia, players are still creating shops and marketplaces. Creating workarounds to lack of Market units. RE: https://dualuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Market_Unit Ps. This is "Official and updated Dual universe wiki https://www.dualuniverse.game/news/dual-universe-wiki-updated

Hmmm. How to say this nicely? Old promises may not be anymore valid but this is current sales pitch right now in DUs web page: "The free economy" - Seriously? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market THE MOVERS AND SHAKERS An empire of immeasurable wealth begins with one humble quanta, the currency of the galaxy. These wheelers and dealers don’t merely operate within the rules of supply and demand, they command them. The free economy presents infinite opportunities for slick captains of industry, ambitious resource tycoons, and stalwart shipwrights. Craft and sell your own creations or act as a broker for makers who prefer to focus on their craft.

@NQ: Why is this "Per player production volume time-gate" needed? We already have several limiters controlling production volume and what is produced. 1. Raw material acquisition. Mining is already heavily limited per player. 1.2 Rare raw material acquisition. Gated also by pvp/pirates game-play (healthy gate) Or if miner wants to avoid pvp by warp it is limited by expensive warp cells. 2. Supply and demand is effective limiter. If supply is too high prices go under profitability limit. Inexperienced players may not notice that and do use too low prices, but those who know how to play industrial game-play , will benefit and buy low priced elements and limit their production until demand is high enough. 2.1 Professional Industrialists produces only those items which has demand. They do not waste their materials into something winch wont sell. This simple facts is very efficient limiter and control scheme for Industrial production. Demand for elements is created by builders. How ever we can not use Markets to sell real end products = Ships We are only able to sell 100% identical mass produced elements. This is the reason why markets looks like working badly. Markets and economy don't even have change to evolve healthy this way. Other booster for demand is economical growth. Artificial limits works against economical growth. PVP boosts demand also. We should not look to much abut industry. It is only middle-ware, which supports other game-loops. More artificial restrictions you at NQ put on markets or production/supply chain, worse effects it has to in game economy. Limiters are needed but those should come from other healthy game loops, not by hard-coded band aid. Market fragmentation Current huge amount of different items (both elements and stuff needed to craft them) is fragmenting economy and markets. There is too much different variations and types of elements vs. current player base. About markets and problem of low economical interaction between players: Aphelia markets: Having these "Aphelia markets" all over the place is also big problem, fragmenting economy and breaking competition and supply/demand principle. There is no competition between marketplaces. Why would one monopoly compete with its own markets... Aphelia's monopoly fits wery badly into healthy economy. Combined to the fact that "Aphelia is the State and government," it controls "Legislation, production ... everything; This was centralized economy model in real life , but it has already failed. Player markets Players will Build their markets where demand is. Players will create healthy competition among their markets. That will create lots of interactions, those which are now missing totally. When we get player markets? NQ: Skip this Schema update and give us player markets.

So many things are unfinished. How ever we must remember that this should be SCIFI game. So our time "Normal" can be totally something else. There is not so much SCIFIsh things yet. We all should read this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quantum_Thief Or at least this Wiki -page.

You right Current Blueprint spawn is actually wery rough placeholder. It will eventually be replaced with better system.

Clearly NQ is not following their vision. And here we are. How many times in history people have said that "it is not possible," Man can not fly, earth is flat, Columbus shall newer go west...

Good points I agree by 100% What you wrote, made me think this: I think we all agree about current problems. Direction of development is off If NQ really does listen us , are those problems on us? This I like to say to NQ: Respect original vision and go towards it. Ignore proposals which may lead to wrong direction.

Actually problem is described at top of latest Devblog post: This is the only fact we know, everything else is pure speculation. Before famous r0.23 game was alive and fun. Implementation of schematics broke all industry and resulted wery bad feelings among players and big exodus, witch then killed fun out of the game. It is not true that build-it-all’ factories, reducing interaction between players. They actually created more interactions, NQ Devs just didn't see that. I know because I was there playing actively and interacting a lot in our small org. After r0.23 only 3 of us did stay, so no more factories and no more interactions. 2 of them left after territory taxes dropped. This new proposal does not fix the real problem: Game is not fun anymore. So veteran players may newer return. Does DU gain new loyal players with these harsh limits, time, talent and quanta gates, I don't know...

True. It is already dome. And will drop "very soon"

Forcing to spread industry between larger player-base does not solve server load issues. Industry is self regulating. Why someone would run industry creating elements which nobody needs? Indy units run only if there is demand for elements. Demand is constant and increasing if new game-loops are introduced, or player base increases. It makes no difference on server-load is elements crafted in mega-factories or in small ones. Ming is so tedious that nobody wants to produce large quantities of elements and waste ore for that.

NQ has not stated that Scemas and industry changes were made to avoid server-load. They were made to fix MMO aspects on game economy. To increase interactions between players. If Indy units creates too much server load it is all on NQ. They did not only enable using those hunderts of indy units, but created it to be mandatory. All those different unit types multiplied by different unit for every tier, multiplied by different parts, products, alloys etc. This creates so very complex need for industry. If server load is the issue, why not create one Indy unit, 3d printer which creates all elements. Then if server-load allows production can be separated again into more specialized indy units. Need/demand for elements is constant. They enable more advanced game-play, PVP, building etc. If element destruction and wear is added it even increases demand for elements and demand for more indy units and more server-load. Making industry game-play less complicated and reducing need for different indy units is only viable solution. After all real game-play is created by PVP:ers and builders supplying pvp and other advanced game loops. Industry is vital part of that, but gets now too much attention. It is only small but necessary part of much more advanced game loops

One good material sink would be Recycling with material loss. Also it would be destroying elements which will not sell and enabling to manufacture elements which has demand.

This I do not understand. We were supposed to enter totally empty alien planet in a spaceship and start there from the scratch. In this original scenario only way to proceed is to be self-sufficient. Bigger goals maybe by small groups or later in orgs, but self-sufficient still. Now we got tens of fully furnished markets all over the planets in this whole solar system. Who build them. Not us; which we were supposed to build. If ever we can find a new solar system or new planet, will those be full of Market buildings even before one human has stepped down from a ship after finding it? How to colonies new planets if we can not be self sufficient? This handhelding Themepark game is not what I opted in at Kickstarter. Before 0.23 there was lots of in-game interactions. Game was alive and fun. Schematics killed all of that. Interactions between players will newer happen by force. No way! NQ: Stop this interactions by force nonsense Interactions will only happen if we, the players, choose to do so. Edit: ps. How will using markets create interactions between players??? I can do most of my business anonymously and remotely. Even if I visit marketplace I newer interact with a player "because doing business." Current markets just do not need or enable player-interactions. Before 0.23 we had lots of group-game-play operations, Mining ops, Hauling stuff for org members (way before missions), building together, helping to fix ships, rescue missions, manufacturing for other org members, you name it, we did it. None of those required interventions by Aphelia nor using Markets. We avoided markets because of all that junk and lag there. Some created own in-org markets by using dispensers in a creative way. I created small factory and org members started to bring in ore and I manufactured (only) what they needed. Our small org had only 3 factories, other members were using our services. Building "‘build-it-all’ Mega factory" was in our plans as a Shared Org - project. What was wrong in that??? We did not need guidance by Aphelia or NQ. Who ever said there was not enough interactions before 0.23 did lye. Secondly: ‘build-it-all’ factory manufactures nothing. Nothing at all. Running that kind of factory is a huge effort which only few players want to do. ‘build-it-all’ factory actually creates interactions and enables group-game-play. Manufacturing only few items and selling them at markets kills interactions. Also factories mostly produce elements which have no use as they are when they appear into container. Those elements only enables further more advanced game-play such as PVP, ship building (both for pvp and other ships) . etc.

Blueprints will be useless because so many changes. And more to come About progress. Personally I do not count Talent points as a "progress". They are 100% afk game-play. For me progress is what I've done in game by actually playing it. - got my Alioth tile - created my base - created small in-house factory for my orgs needs - Created Space station and bought space elevator. (Again serving my org) - Collected all elements and materials to spawn my AG ship from Alpha BP - Bought several cool ships -e.t.c This is progress. This I hate to loose

Sounds like another step away from player driven economy. Producing items consume schematics copies. Copying schematics will cost "a small fee". This will create new TAX Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big. Great TAX simulator

@NQ Also please add lightweight "Civilian pilot seat back"

There is still hope. When atmo-pvp comes we all get agile and fun to fly atmo ships back.

Maybe PvP community did not ask for specially this, but.. PCP community asked "better pvp" Overall changes and nerfs to make pvp better, affected non-pvp ships as well @TobiwanKenobi Your Lightskipper Courier is was probably the best warp shuttle ever made. It was fun to fly Not any more Before those "pro pvp changes" it weight was 65t , now its weight is 118t (correct me if i'm wrong) That is about 80% increase of weight. Now it hardly break gravity, now it is no fun at all to fly. I have bought all your sips, just because Lightskipper Courier was so fun to fly. So do you say to your customer that it is all ok... you have more fun... Now I need a new warp shuttle. Will it be you or some other shipbuilder whom I by my new shuttle. EDIT: Sorry I was barking a wrong tree... It is not shipbuilders fault when NQ breaks things. Don't worry, I'll buy updated Lightskipper Courier V2.0 as soon you have it ready.

How they get that ore? Don't they sell their stuff at all? How they earn quanta? Indy units do not create quanta...

Not true. When automated factory is ready, it does not produce nothing. You have to supply constant flow of ore to make your factory run. You also need to cover costs for acquiring raw materials. At this point you are only creating losses, and yes your game will be soon over because you run out of Quanta. To at least cover costs running your factory you need to sell stuff, with profit.