ColonkinYT

All right. That's exactly what I meant. Having big data on beta, it was necessary to set everything up then. At least much closer to the goal. Moreover, we must rely on empirical experience. And the developers have specific numbers. It was quite possible to calculate the numbers of income from a standard tile for mining units and bots. Declaring the introduced mechanics as an exploit is not a sign of deep analysis and balance.

It is not our fault that these resources have nowhere to go. If at least combat NPCs were introduced, then cartridges, scrap and elements would probably be spent more. The mass speed limit made it pointless to put more engines on cargo ships. With that model and the relativistic effect, up to a certain point, it made sense to increase the thrust-to-weight ratio. The armor nerf also made tank armor pointless. And shields don't consume that many resources. Energy was promised a year ago. Both for ships and for static structures. There is still no adequate repair. Much as it was in the early beta and remains. In fact, all the announcements about MU nerfs, removal of market bots, increase in the cost of products are nothing more than an attempt to patch holes without a major overhaul. Everything comes down to balance again. It was the shortcomings of the original balance in production / consumption that led to this. As well as persisting in clearly erroneous initial claims regarding the NPC. And at the release stage, various experiments with the gameplay are unlikely to be made.

Beta clearly showed that such volumes of ore simply have nowhere to spend. Nothing has changed since then. And again we are talking about the lack of elementary balance ...))).

It's been a mystery to me for 2 years now why it was impossible to take the monetization model from the same Eve. Modify for yourself and do it

Nevertheless, we are forced to do just that ;-). We will all soon be space bus and truck drivers. Since the maximum speed (oh stupidity) is limited in mass, everyone is doomed to trail at a speed of 20,000 km / h.

Not only lights. Try to make an L detector. The situation is the same as with the lights. Materials required as per XS. The main price is an expensive schematic L . And so with many other elements. This clearly shows the fact that the schemes were developed by a person who does not understand his own game in the production chains. And what is done on what machine. Just used a template.

First, not everyone. I have tiles with 400 l/h of bauxite. There is no such amount of ore there. I admit that there are tiles with a total output of 600 l / h. But I haven't even seen them. About 500 max. Secondly, as I wrote below, who prevented immediately from putting not 25 quants per liter, but 20 or 18. To balance the cash flow. Thirdly. I don’t know about you, but I really don’t like it when they force me to one way of making money in the sandbox. I do not like to ride in the game on the ship for hours in afk mode. P.S. Calibrating a flower once a week will never yield 7 tiles at 1.5-2 million ore. Performance after 3 days after calibration starts to fall very rapidly, even with bonuses.

Very good work for basic thinking! Naturally, each of the points and phases could be expanded and detailed. If NQ were interested in it. In the game, you can implement a lot of different interesting things based on existing mechanics. For the author of the topic, this is also a good practice. After all, it is better to learn from the mistakes of others. Now some comments. 1. NPC. They are needed primarily for solo players and small groups so that people have something to do in the game. And for big group players who need a break from socialization. If we put aside the combat NPCs for now, then all the rest can be implemented with ordinary scripts like FTUE. The mechanics are there, just programming is enough. 2. Now about combat NPCs. Why do I think this is important. The fact is that only warriors were deprived of content from NQ. Yes Yes. Exactly. Those who want to shoot can only do so at other players and nothing else. Pilots - can fly missions. Miners mine and sell ore. Manufacturers - make items and sell them. Constructors - make ships and sell BP or finished ships. The case is for all professions except for those players who are aimed at combat gameplay. This is why piracy is so widespread. People are trying to entertain themselves somehow. Combat NPCs would be a good help. And you can start small. With a swarm of crazed drones that will be an indivisible model. For killing which you can get quanta and randomly take out loot from them (tickets for a special store, schematics, etc.). The stupidity of AI bots can be balanced by their number. And the most important thing. Run spawning bots locally on the player's machine without using a server. And with the server to exchange data on the success / failure of the mission, loot, damage to the player's ship. Techniques how to do this is the prerogative of specialists. One way or another, the gaming industry is rich in various options for how to do this. If the developers are willing. But in general, one thing upsets me. That this cool initiative of one person (and possibly a group of people) will again not be heard by NQ. I really want to be wrong in my opinion...

Exactly. Good game design is about different ways of making money for different professions. For pilots - delivery missions, for miners - bots (or mining missions with the delivery of ore), for production workers - their missions or their bots would also not be bad, and for shooters their missions would also not be bad. Balancing the prices of all this so that the income is equivalent for each profession is not such a difficult task. Especially with numbers from the database. We constantly see attempts to force us to go strictly in one direction. And this causes misunderstanding.

I thought a little and I don't understand. How do bots for T1 ore give "excessively" a lot of money. Where is it "too much"? Let's take a rough look. To calibrate 7 flower tiles to the maximum on T1, you need to spend somewhere around 5 calibrations per 1 tile 1 time in 3 days. A total of 10 calibrations per week (the ideal is not always achievable and calibrations must be saved). In total, 70 calibrations are obtained per flower. As you can see, I'm not overbearing. Even if the skills are not at 5. If the skills for calibrations are pumped to the maximum, then we get one calibration in 3.5 hours. Total for the week 48 calibrations. As you can see, with one character at the maximum, even one flower cannot be held. So you need 2 characters. Moreover, they constantly carry and visit their farms every 3 days. Right now I brought a load from one flower. I roughly got 470 kl of T1 ore. Let's round up to 500. In total, for the "simplicity" of the calculation, we get a revenue of 25,000,000 quanta - 3,500,000 quanta for the territories. On hand for 2 characters we get 21,500,000 quanta. And now some other arithmetic. Without flying out of the safe zone, you can put these 2 characters on the ship and complete a mission for 1.8 M quanta once a day. We will assume that we will also perform 6 days. For two characters, you get 21,600,000 quanta. Well, minus the fuel. Let the fuel go for 1kk. Total 20,600,000 quants. So what is the excess of income from bots? And there are generally convenient ways from tades to madis and back, when it turns out 2.7 kk per circle. And fly only 80 su. This is the first. Second. If bots seem excessive to someone - make the price 20 or 15 quanta. What is the problem? Why did I write this. It seems to me that someone is guided more by sensations and not by numbers. I don't see any redundancy in bots compared to missions. But people have a choice of what to do. Moreover, the ore does not remain in circulation when sold to bots and is actually destroyed.

Even in this we are limited. You are too good for this forum! 😉

I will not say now whether bots are needed or not. One moment bothers me. Twice in the last week we have been deceived. First, they introduced restrictions on calibration, although it was said that this was not an exploit. Now they write that market bots are not needed, although a month ago they said that they should be updated. The game is more and more like a scam... It seems that none of the statements of the developers can not be trusted. We must conclude...

I'm looking at the Starship Evo. The game is supported by one person, all the more interesting to see that DU has not gone far ahead of him. Unfortunately there is no normal network game yet. But as a constructor, he is already better)))

What an interesting date. 29/11. The date seems to say "pay another month"... The truth is not clear what to do this another month ...

Yes thank you. I've got almost everything ready. Regarding asteroids and mining (with the latest update). Yes, asteroids were fun in the beginning. Especially the race to find it first. But then I realized that I don't like looking for the hundredth time for a 5-8 kiloliter t1 ore node. When there was planetary mining, there was a passion to find a mega node, or at least a large node for 100+ kl of ore. Now this is not. Roids are just the tedious work of an underground mole with no hope of a surprise. Now there are few asteroids, and there are fewer players. It kills the motive to get anything at all. The market is dying. All more or less self-sufficient. Flying through missions is boring (well, you can only watch the series in parallel. But this is nonsense - to entertain yourself in the game while watching TV shows or movies!). I don't know who NQ wanted to rein in with this "fix" mining units. Mining asteroids is still sad and looks like working in the garbage. When you have to shovel heaps of earth to find something worthwhile. Once again, cause and effect have been overlooked.

Thanks NQ! You helped me make my choice. Subscription ends on the 27th. And now there is no doubt about the choice at all. 😉

Now, in December, they will give us pets and all sorts of costumes that were promised on the kickstarter. And after half a year they will say - there is another project, we went there. Thank you all for your attention. Perhaps this is overly pessimistic. But I have no other explanation. It seems that DU for NQ is a suitcase without a handle. It's hard to carry and throw away. Shareholders and backers will not appreciate. Here are the conditions for withdrawal.

It is a paradox that in the construction space sandbox we are limited in construction and production. First, they introduce hundreds of details that make up the craft and then complain about the server load. What prevented us from putting ingots into the assembler right away and getting finished products after tens of minutes and hours. Talk about a fully modifiable world and complain about server performance when terraforming. (What prevented a week or two from simply filling up these ditches?) And what prevents you from increasing the number of asteroids by 5 times and removing this moronic tracker? Give a radar for asteroids with a radius of 10 su. I found an asteroid - saved the coordinates and dig quietly, including in the pvp zone. Oh yes. PVP will be difficult for those who wish to look for their victims)). And who is easy now?

Why economics? Because there is nothing else in the game at the moment. Core gamepaly is mining, building, selling. So far there is nothing more. You are absolutely right that there are no more game mechanics and goals. Apparently at first they thought that the players themselves would work as game masters for free. But we know that this is not so. There are no points of interest with player control (similar to stations in eve. There is no tax system within corporations at all. And most importantly, people who want to shoot have nothing to warm up with (there are no crazy bots for shooting and completing missions). All this points to global miscalculations on the part of game design.

Actually, the topic is about trading bots with ore t1. This is NQ. Maybe I'm not wrong? )) This is not a topic about possible sources of income in the game. 😉

Cancel it is also not the best solution. Why the transaction was not automatically closed if the purchase price on the market is higher than the sale price is not clear. Suppose, when placing buy orders, all sell orders below 25 quantum were automatically satisfied. Naturally at the sale price)). And everyone is happy...

And who said that I mix? I'm just talking about input sources. Using RL as an example, there should always be a balance between the goods produced/value added and the amount of money in the system. When money is not enough, everyone becomes sad.

So that's the point. We were offered only 2 methods. One of which has already expired. And in fact, either miners or runners on missions earned. Moreover, missions are only for transportation. What prevented the introduction of missions for mining / crafting / destruction? After all, we are actually talking about a game that has been in beta for over a year.

This is an example of how a small problem grows into a huge one due to the fact that it is not solved ... (I mean the decrease in the price of T1 and then the resumption of purchases by bots)

Which is exactly what needed to be proven. After 1.5 months of playing, ore prices have already dropped to 16. This is despite the fact that many industries have not yet been fully saturated with components. And then we go to 10. Regarding missions - why the hell should I do something that I don't like? After all, it's not 1999 when games were linear. But even in the 90s, not all games were linear. Why the hell should I be stupid for 2-3 hours doing missions? Oh yes. This is the source of the quarts. So why is there only one source? Why are there no mining / production / destruction missions? I don't believe they are hard to make. This is called ill-conceived game design. It would be forgivable for a game that just went into early access. But not DU.