Anfros
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Posts posted by Anfros
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I hope we wont be able to sell DACs for ingame money
That's the entire point of them...
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I wouldn't be opposed to something like the ship welder from space engineers, but remote repairing like in Eve would be very weird.
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I love this concept and really like the different ideas people have brought forth. This is a good example where scripting can make a huge difference by diverting power to the areas that need it the most. I really think scripting should be part of any good ship design and should have a large impact on that ship and it's capabilities. We do have to keep in mind however that any all actions will have a slight delay so we probably won't see a system where changing how the shields are powered every second is possible, otherwise large battles would cause immense server load.
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Speaking about science fiction, we have read and watch many monster stories, about how an unknown evil comes from space to wipe our race.
And since the game is a Survival MMO, i think Novaquark has spoken to few about the PVE content
Will planets have monsters to fight ?
Intelligent Alien races (again) to fight with ?
I love to make friends and hunt for bosses and power full mob spawns, any one here like PVE content ?
Powerful PVE enforces player interaction and friendship, where a only PVP game only enforces aggression
One of the great 'events' of a MMO is to fight big bosses, like on Lineage2 where the main PVP/PVE bosses spawns only once a month, and all alliances must PVP to get the chance to kill that boss and guarantee the rare items to their faction.
Also DU can have some Bosses that spawn on PVP zones, easy to take where you can kill with your friends and probably fight some other few players during the boss fight.
I think other players will be plenty dangerous, we do not need spacemonsters. Frankly, from your posts, it seem you want the game to move in a completely different direction than the one the devs have indicated so far. I suggest you go read up on what the devs are planning for the game and think about whether this is the game you are looking for.
Edit: I made a false statement in my original post, removed it
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You guys all got this wrong.
I should never have used the term 'server renting' at first, but it was what pictured best the idea. I admit it was confusing, especially with the digression on how the server renting market proved successful over many years (thus making similar models solutions that should be looked out).
The goal is to permit players to rent their own space WITHIN the single shard universe, not on another server. For example to be allowed to rent a star system. Instead this solar system is administered by players who actually pay for this service, with their own rules and restrictions. Implementation should make it smooth for other players so that if it's a private rented space, you will simply not see it or things like that, all the details are not important here.
The analogy with server renting is that NQ can actually use that money for renting their OWN servers and even make margin on it!
Just like the server renting business model : you rent a private space, with special tools to manage it, and that's it! However here there is a trade-off : there is no division of the single shard because you simply do not rent a server.
I said exactly this in the OP : "This solution is simply a model similar to server renting, privatization of in-game space" to which I added "get innovative on how to make that still realistic and immersive in the single shard and then rent those places in the universe just as you would have done for any dedicated server".
Whenever people are paying to enlarge the universe, it generates traction for the game. I do not see that happen with a paywall upfront. There is too much competition in the same genre, and the single shard MMO feature, while it is a great technological prowess, is still just a feature. The game cannot sell on that feature, apply a paywall and hope for a massive success. That's my belief and that's why I am opposing that, because I wish this game a lot of success.
We all understood what you meant, it's just a really dumb idea that counteracts the very core concept of the game.
- Ghoster, Halo381, Anaximander and 1 other
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Different quality resources doesn't really make sense though, iron is iron. The real difference should be in how you process the resources you gather.
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Do we really need more ways than mining to ruin planets, seems that is going to be more than enough.
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I will personally be running a material doubling service, send me mats and I will send you double the amount back...
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I have yet to see anyone who advocates b2p or f2p explain how those models would create revenue for NQ in 10 years. The devs very frequently compare their vision for DU with Eve and for good reason, it's a SANDBOX. People are going to build sandcastles and they are going to get torn down and then others are going to build new sandcastles. Infinite replayability. Barring NQ going bankrupt or not managing to actually produce a game that holds up there is no reason this game is not going to last a decade or two, so when choosing monetization model it is important to think long term and p2p is the only model that has long term viability, excepting p2w but that is unacceptable to the current community and I believe to the devs as well.
In a f2p system you would need an game store of some kind, but what would this store sell? Ingame currency or materials is out of the question from a market and p2w point of view. Cosmetic items? What kind of cosmetic items could you actually sell in a game were all the things that actually matter are going to be player constructed? Could you have special colors that could only be utilized for construction if you buy them? That's basically just taking sand out of the sandbox, which would probably be a deal-breaker for me and many others. Could you sell pre-defined shps or blueprints? Sure but they would probably suck or be op, the combat meta is probably going to be to diverse and changing for any predefined ship to be good without cheating.
As to subscriptions being expensive in some countries due to currencies and income levels, that is entirely up to the devs/publisher. There is absolutely nothing that stops games from being prized differently in different countries. And yes 12-15€ is more that my electric bill too and there are many people that cannot afford to buy subscription. Playing games is not a human right though, just like you are not entitled to own an iPhone or a car.
The devs need to use a monetization model that works for their company and for their game vision, and NQ has said that their choice is probably gong to be p2p, with the option of buying game time from other players for in game currency. I personally think this is a good choice as I think this leads to the fewest compromises between gameplay and money and I know large parts of the community agrees with me.
So until someone actually explains how they would want f2p or b2p to actually work and how that would keep the game alive and development funded 10 years from now I will consider this topic finished.
- magnatron, rmhenn and Anaximander
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1 EUR =/= 1 ZAR
also as a teen i can tell you, its not hard at all to raise 13,25 Eur a month
i currently get around 80 a month for 8 hours of newspaper carrying per month, thats a bit less than 1 1/2 hours per month to play the game further more newspaper salary varies depending on the amount of ads meaning i often get over 100 Eur
teens should be over 14 to play this game anyways (you know behaving mature etc.) and its not hard to find a part time job paying over 30 per month
Apply inflation to that and you get around the same result for probably every currency you mentioned
I doubt we we will see many kids in this game though, I expect most serious orgs are going to require their members to be at least 18+ and if we look at eve online, which in my mind has the same target audience, that game has a average age of around 30.
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The expansions in eve online are more like large named patches than the expansions of WoW. They are free and all content is available to all players. Calling them expansions is basically a PR thing. Imo having to pay extra for content is one of the best ways to kill off a sandbox.
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With a planet diameter of 30 km, even if we are only able to dig 2 km that's still 5000 Km^3 which is a lot..
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The problem is, there will be no npcs that drop gold like there is in normal mmos. So NQ will be tasked with finding a way to naturally generate in game currency. The idea of a trad-able resource like energy becoming currency is a very natural approach. The speed of the energy generation can be fine tuned to balance how passive it is. It could be set up that your generators need to be supplied fuel every 2-3 hours. That makes it a very active task.
ISK sinks in eve online are small enough that they have basically no impact on the economy though. And since everything in DU is player made inflation is not much of a problem.
Edit: wrong qoute, NQ has confirmed though that there will be an ingame currency much like in Eve or WoW
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I was also thinking about this. I think that energy could be a effective form of currency.
When first starting out, the ark ship could supply us with a small amount of energy to get things started (setting up first shelter or powering basic vehicles). But as we progress we would likely have power reactors, solar collectors etc. At this point in the civilization we would switch from a basic trade/barter system to a currency based economy with energy as our currency.
I believe this would also create a great currency sink. As people could trade raw materials for energy to power shields, ships, housing, planetary basses etc. When this energy is used to power things it in turn gets removed from the game an in doing so counters inflation.
The energy its self would be harvested from (as i mentioned earlier) generators and solar collectors. Generators could require some rare materials for to run and in turn that adds to the dynamic economy. Energy could also be easily stored in a compact container similar to our quantum backpack that compresses ore. In turn it could be transferred to basses and structures, and used directly to purchase items and materials from Markets hubs.
This is just a basic idea and could be expanded on, but i believe that this currency system would be more natural, dynamic and intuitive than the typical Gold system that is used by most mmorpgs.
I don't necessarily think passive currency generation would be a good thing. And we know from NQ that money is not going to be physical thing and is going to be stored in accounts.
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I asked this question in a similar topic in the general forums and it seems like on one really knows the long term plan for money.
I see a lot of issues with using currency. As you mentioned many games suffer from inflation and that is with a non player drain on money. Even with these measures the game market will always inflate, with no methods to drain money via npc inflation will become a huge problem very quickly.
Some games get around this by using a common crafting material or highly used material as currency. Generic metal bar is currency and generic metal bar is used in all ammo, building things and crafting elements in the game. This keeps back inflation because the currency leaves the market by crafting.
I am very interested in how they plan on using currency. In the real world currency only works because of hundreds or thousands of years of faith in the system. Protection in that system by government and a large amount of regulation. If everyone can "print money" by killing a monster or harvesting it out of the ground I dont think the system will work.
I hope they clarify this seeing as how economy and trade is one of the core pillars on which this game is going to be founded.
Eve online is an example of a working game economy, the game has been running for 13 years now iirc and the economy is still healthy. Even though there is a lot of inflation prices have been largely stable for most of the game's existence and are for the most part only influenced by supply, demand and speculation.
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https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/841-ask-us-anything-event/?p=14631
From this post we know there will be a pre-defined in game currency, afaik we do not know what cash faucets and sinks there will be though.
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He makes other mentions that their server technology is only possible because of advances in cloud computing in that same interview.
Based on how the servers are being split up dynamically automatically based on player density, I imagine AWS is the only provider that can scale up and down quickly enough for them
I expect that once they actually get around to setting up servers to run the game on they will move towards using their own hardware, seems weird to be reliant on a 3d party for servers. Though it would be cool if they could use cloud servers to handle overloads.
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Trains are cool, and would no doubt be easier to automate than ships or wheeled vehicles. I certainly hope they are included at some point.
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No doubt any teaser for the game will generate about 100 new threads about why p2p is bad.... In all seriousness though, I'm getting ready to get hyped, though I don't really think it would be good for them to get too many people hyped about the game this early in the development, ideally we want hype to build up to the release and not people getting exited and then moving on when they realize how far away the game is.
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One problem with drug though is that portrayals of drugs in video games is not allowed in some countries, which could become a problem for the devs. This is why is some localizations of EvE online boosters are called vitamins.
Edit: in this case I am of course referring to narcotics and not medicines...
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In a game that specifically revolves around fighting for survival at every turn, I agree that the need for food/water/sustenance is a good mechanic. But my impression and hope is that the main point of this game will be social interactions between players with creation, destruction, politics and other mechanics acting as a catalyst for those interactions. When basic basic survival is not the main thing in a game but the devs decide to tack on foodlike mechanics anyway, in my experience, most of these mechanics usually boil down to "you need to take a break from playing the game every x amount of time and go interact with this random unfun mechanic before you can continue playing the game". In my opinion these kind of mechanics need to be at the center of the game or they will be more annoying than fun.
To me it basically boils down to this, the player should not be incentivized to log off. If a player feels they cannot sit around just chatting with their friends ingame, without interacting with the game in any other way, because doing so actually punishes them that would, in my opinion, be VERY bad for the game. The easy solution to this is making the food requirement low enough to be trivial, but then why have it in the first place.
As for the idea of having the player consume food even when they are logged off, that just punishes people who have to be away from the game for extended periods of time, which in my experience from games like this is going to be punishing enough anyway.
That being said food is a reasonably good way of going about an upkeep mechanic, making sure people need to bring supplies to support any effort they are undertaking. I think there are better ways to go about it though, that feels less punishing for the individual player. For example fuel, life support, ammo and many many more things and I expect there will be multiple such things in the game.
That said I am not against food as a thing, if for example we have npcs in the game I can see food being part of their upkeep mechanic, and I would love for agriculture and forestry to be in the game just like I want mining to be in the game. I'm just againt using it as a survival mechanic.
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The simple solution that I expect to see from most orgs is if you break the rules you get kicked and set to kill on sight. Death, while not permanent, is going to be a lot more impactful than it is in many other mmos.
Long-Term Resource Availability and New Player Conundrums
in The Gameplay Mechanics Assembly
Posted
From what NQ has said it seems resources are not going to regenerate, which is good for the economy long term. They have also said they want all players to spawn on the same planet, but this might change down the line, but at launch I expect there will only be one spawn point.