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DarkTemplar

Missiles (not nukes)

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I've been wondering for a while now, and I can't find the answer even if it is most likely lurking somewhere. Will be able to create our own missiles and code their targeting/trajectory using Lua. If you know about the the game From the Depths, that's what I'm getting at.

 

 

If not, I think it would be really awesome if this could be implemented. I'd say there'd be the basic missiles which wouldn't need programming but if people knew Lua they could code them. Meaning we'd see missiles acting differently and targeting different things.

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Highly unlikely a missile that is an object like ammunition to be code-able. But a voxel-built ballistic missile, would be programmable, giving it thrusters for some rotational motion to give it the ability to juke and perhaps 2 or 3 DPUs linked to it and a fission core turned into an improptu warhead by rigging a collision detection/explosion mechanism in LUA. 

Back at my uni deads, I had a small project with a friend to recreate a space war scenario within an in-game enviroment and we used solid 3D object detection to intercept and detonate missiles with starships. And for LUA it could work if the devs were to import a detectSolidAt command in the LUA scripts. But I don't know if the collision system will work as anticipated so starships can collide with one another and cause damage. If that is the case, then expect people building Nallistic Missiles, essentially small starships, unmanned, to add an extra element of UMPF in the gameplay.

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Highly unlikely a missile that is an object like ammunition to be code-able. But a voxel-built ballistic missile, would be programmable, giving it thrusters for some rotational motion to give it the ability to juke and perhaps 2 or 3 DPUs linked to it and a fission core turned into an improptu warhead by rigging a collision detection/explosion mechanism in LUA. 

That's what they did In from the depths. You would choose how the missile was built, thrust, payload, amount of fins and you could fire them normal with the basic targeting system. But with Lua you could programme how it would fly. If it skimmed low to the surface, weave, arched and anything you could try. I would love to see that in this but I'm not sure how it would work with the tab-targeting.

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That's what they did In from the depths. You would choose how the missile was built, thrust, payload, amount of fins and you could fire them normal with the basic targeting system. But with Lua you could programme how it would fly. If it skimmed low to the surface, weave, arched and anything you could try. I would love to see that in this but I'm not sure how it would work with the tab-targeting.

This idea works fine against battleships though, but small jetcraft would be able to intercept as your Ballistic Missiles are about 100 to 200 tons of weight and an average jet these days is about 38 tons of weight. So it's not a "win" scenario. Flanks and strategies would have to form to draw any escort ships away from a primary target to nuke them. And that tactic is not a 100% accurate, given the ship might be able to juke the missile at the last second, as the missiles would have to adjust speed given the target's velocity, so an experienced ship driver would keep going slow/fast/slow/fast and punch the thrusters to maximum and juke the missile.

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Yeah, I see what you're saying. But you wouldn't fire ballistic missiles at fighters would you? Those would be reserved for the bigger ships. You would (ideally) have a set of missiles for either nimble fighters or hulking destroyers. And its a guarantee that people will try dodge missiles while in flight.

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Yeah, I see what you're saying. But you wouldn't fire ballistic missiles at fighters would you? Those would be reserved for the bigger ships. You would (ideally) have a set of missiles for either nimble fighters or hulking destroyers. And its a guarantee that people will try dodge missiles while in flight.

Exactly what I implied. Jetfighters as an escort to a larger ship, or even destroyer class ships, could act as defense to the main battleships or super-carrier. Jets are able to take down ballistic missiles, or even possibly, as I discussed with some fine sirs in the PMs, a jet that can deliver a single phase ballistic missile from a close distance (like in the Avengers movie, where the jet is closing in Manhattan to deploy the missile. Jets would be agile enough to avoid being hit, while having the ability to deliver a single fire missile. Notice, the missile itself would be constly to make, due to all the parts involved (fuel, DPU scripting) but there will be a reason for jetfighter pilots to exist in the game, or as I suggested, destroyer class ships, of which job is to protect the ship they are appointed to.

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Frankly, physical projectiles themselves are confirmed to be 'not a thing' by either one of Nyz' comments or a Dev-blog (can't recall).

There will be no (or very limited) ship-to-ship collision damage, to prevent 'ramming' PvP that is flagrant in Space Engineers, capable of putting a hole clean through medium-sized vessels with a single physical projectile (small purpose-built debris, accelerated to maximum game-engine speed).

 

The devs spoke out against large, destructive weapons, capable of one-shotting a vessel of comparable strength, so even if they do implement bomb elements, you can expect these to be largely un-viable against ship-to-ship combat, as you would need more armor on the projectile, to protect it from lock-on weapons, than you would gain from detonating it near the target.

 

However, a recreation of WW2 bombings on ground constructs? Now that would be cool  :D

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Frankly, physical projectiles themselves are confirmed to be 'not a thing' by either one of Nyz' comments or a Dev-blog (can't recall).

There will be no (or very limited) ship-to-ship collision damage, to prevent 'ramming' PvP that is flagrant in Space Engineers, capable of putting a hole clean through medium-sized vessels with a single physical projectile (small purpose-built debris, accelerated to maximum game-engine speed).

 

The devs spoke out against large, destructive weapons, capable of one-shotting a vessel of comparable strength, so even if they do implement bomb elements, you can expect these to be largely un-viable against ship-to-ship combat, as you would need more armor on the projectile, to protect it from lock-on weapons, than you would gain from detonating it near the target.

 

However, a recreation of WW2 bombings on ground constructs? Now that would be cool  :D

I can take tab-targeting, but that made me sad right there. Where did they confirm that there won't be any collision? Cause that leaves a lot out of the LUA scripts, things that make LUA scripts a glorified macro command.

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I can take tab-targeting, but that made me sad right there. Where did they confirm that there won't be any collision? Cause that leaves a lot out of the LUA scripts, things that make LUA scripts a glorified macro command.

For a moment there I thought I was full of crap, but no, I did in fact catch my eye on this thread right here while going through everything on the forum a few days ago.

 

Comment excerpt:

 

In an interview with JC Baille on the XPGamers YouTube Channel, he said that weapon damage an hits will be calculated based on weapons and skills of the user. Hit probabilities will be used, and there won't be actual projectiles. I also read something like that in other posts - this method is said to be a lot less expensive when it comes to server resources.

Having projectiles as separate entities would kill performance in large battles - at least with server technology that's available today.

 

Plese correct me if I got that wrong, but I think that's how weapons are planned to work at the current state.

Basically a rumor of a rumor, but that's good enough for me.

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For a moment there I thought I was full of crap, but no, I did in fact catch my eye on this thread right here while going through everything on the forum a few days ago.

 

Comment excerpt:

 

 

Basically a rumor of a rumor, but that's good enough for me.

I meant the Nyzaltar quote. This will make combat... dull. I can take ground combat being first person WoW, but ships having little to no tactics other than "get this skill tree and you are done"... not to mention any reason for LUA scripts at this point, or building different ships and blueprints, since there will be a min-max ship built that everyone will use. LUA will be like macros in WoW, simple, one button rotation machines... this, this is sad man. I might be wrong on this and they have something unique for combat, or at least, cone of fire AoE weaponry, but if not, I can;'t see any sort of "build the best ship" or counterplay emerging other than "roll the dice, oops, the other guy has +1 on his crit chance, you lost" kind of gameplay. This, combiend with universal currency, will simply make the game grow real dull, real fast. 

 

I could be wrong as I said and the combat might have firing runs, or, turretts have a very long cooldown requiring synchronised runs and altering of velocities to juke enemy fire timing, which would work in a tab-targeting enviroment. In any case, I am in it for ground combat, but given these "no collision" rules, I can't see mechas being a thing. Hivertanks though are a fair-game.

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I can;'t see any sort of "build the best ship" or counterplay emerging other than "roll the dice, oops, the other guy has +1 on his crit chance, you lost" kind of gameplay. This, combiend with universal currency, will simply make the game grow real dull, real fast. 

I'd care to disagree with you on both points. Universal currency is for creating emergent game economies that feel 'real'. I imagine you'd like there to be player-made currencies for each planet, or region, but the way I see it, it wouldn't work. It would lead to violent swings in markets and manipulation, you'll be hinged on players willing to commit to your currency.

 

On the combat side of things, I believe the 'dice-roll' advantage you gain from skills will be negligible in comparison to your ship build and flight characteristics. The way I see it, flying a ship without LUA scripts is going to be damn-near impossible, in any sort of combat situation, and a meta will emerge around scripting better ship controllers for combat as well as balancing your agility with tank and power in a much, much more dynamic way than EVE Online.

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I'd care to disagree with you on both points. Universal currency is for creating emergent game economies that feel 'real'. I imagine you'd like there to be player-made currencies for each planet, or region, but the way I see it, it wouldn't work. It would lead to violent swings in markets and manipulation, you'll be hinged on players willing to commit to your currency.

 

On the combat side of things, I believe the 'dice-roll' advantage you gain from skills will be negligible in comparison to your ship build and flight characteristics. The way I see it, flying a ship without LUA scripts is going to be damn-near impossible, in any sort of combat situation, and a meta will emerge around scripting better ship controllers for combat as well as balancing your agility with tank and power in a much, much more dynamic way than EVE Online.

Sir, have you ever heard of a thing called economic warfare? Ruining an enemy's currency by siphoning through smuggler trading is a crucial part of the gameplay. What's the point of having smugglers if they are nothing but traders? Violent swings in markets is why nations fall. And when everyone is a billionaire, there's no reason to claim you are one, which is where a universal currency finally ends up doing. There's nothing "real" in that, people have used WoW to demonstrate a simulation of an earth-wide currency. IT would not work, as you couldn't control its flow. People expressed the need for a cryptocurrency, wher players can find limited amouts of it throughout the game, so to keep its value stable, but I can't say I see it coming through, cause people are idiots when it comes to money and I can't see them figuring out how having cryptocurrency works viable. Look around you, all the people not knowing how mortgages work and how to plan their retirement, you'll know it's true. Commiting to one currency creates loyatly and incentive to fight for one side, a universal currency creates a free-for-all backstabbing mentality. I wouldn't be surprised if they came out and said "you can carry unlimited amount of money on you  and they won't drop when you die."  Expect a lot of "traitor moments" in battles. And if a guy loses his ship in EVE and regequits, think of guys who lose their planets because the other guys simply had more of the same currency to throw and bribe one of his lieutenants, or even the common low ranking pvper who got his precious little castle building demolished after a traitor turned on them. Ragequit ahoy.

 

 

As for the ships, you do know that MMOs are full of cookie cutter builds when it comes to setups, heck even MOBA games have that. One "pro" PvPer will do a ceretain thing and all the sheep in the Twitch channel watching will mimic that. And all the videos I see on EVE PvP are "look the top players, mimic them" mentality, it's how WoW became a dull copypaste game where you simply looked at big numbers with no meaning.  Everyone is exactly like you, no disambiguation, no identity. For the record, I have no issue with skills in the toolbar and a tab targeting system, especiallly if there's a sniper specialisation kind of thing. I expect the ground combat to be similar. "This is a rifle. There are many like it, but THIS is my own" mentality is what I follow in life, I expect things I to change shapes and forms, from phones to PC cases, this extends to gear, I'm a function over form guy, but ships that will be the same cookie-cutter setup IF thee are no cone of fire turret timing gameplay , I can't see many people enjoying doing the same PvP every time, focusing down one target with arbitrary numbers, not to mention new players never reaching the same power level as a guy who sank 5000 hours into the game and has unlocked every skill possible.

 

 

Just saying. They might have an ace up their sleeve and so far, they shown they do keep a lot of aces up their sleeve as a company, so I will reserve my final judgment on this untl they reveal their combat gameplay. The game still looks promising as far as scale goes. As long as a sniper skill system is in place , probably with a zoom-in function that allows you to hit a target from far far away, like a kilometer (like JC could see the station in orbit, which triangulating its sizes looks like it was about 10-15 km above the ground, given I'm not wrong on the 75 FOV the pre-alpha demo was recorded on).  I would be contempt with a sniper skillset and a bounty system inmplemented. PErhaps invest in some stealth ship and move from planet to planet, doing the Punisher shuffle.

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I think you're digging yourself a new thread here  :P

On the ruse are we? :P

 

To be honest, I don't care what the space-derps do. I want me sniper, me traps and me trackign skill trees and a stealth-jet. I'll be griefing entire pirates squads on "RP" stuff they do. I'll be called the Puny-Ser. For obvious reasons.

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On the ruse are we? :P

 

To be honest, I don't care what the space-derps do. I want me sniper, me traps and me trackign skill trees and a stealth-jet. I'll be griefing entire pirates squads on "RP" stuff they do. I'll be called the Puny-Ser. For obvious reasons.

Finally, something we agree about. :P

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Back to the OP, I would like to add my 2cents:

 

In Space Engineers it is not possible to script missiles (at least when I still played), but instead we can create a not-so-small "scripted kamikaze ship stuffed with explosive"

 

This always has been quite frustrating in my own opinion since it simply ugly and not fun at all when you just want to customize target prioritization or a small behavior of an already existing launch system Element.

 

Recreating a whole ballistic missile from voxel could be fun, but i'd like it not to be the only choice !

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Back to the OP, I would like to add my 2cents:

 

In Space Engineers it is not possible to script missiles (at least when I still played), but instead we can create a not-so-small "scripted kamikaze ship stuffed with explosive"

This always has been quite frustrating in my own opinion since it simply ugly and not fun at all when you just want to customize target prioritization or a small behavior of an already existing launch system Element.

 

Recreating a whole ballistic missile from voxel could be fun, but i'd like it not to be the only choice !

 

If mines are going to be a physical property in the server's side of things, then you can strap them on a rocket made of voxels and launch them manually. Could work, like a sort of ballistic missile, with the mine being the warhead.

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