Miamato
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Posts posted by Miamato
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Just now, Hades said:
I think there was a discussion on this and NQ didn't seem too enthused with the idea. DACs are going to be DACs. Nothing more nothing less. You can sell them to other players for in-game currency... or you can use them
The reason why I suggested such approach is that in EVE there is a problem with isk amount rising too much. And PLEX system is not enough for taking isks out to balance isk amount. So the problem is in regulation of game currency injection into game. And there are two points here actually:
- short term regulation, on the very beginning of the game life-cycle. If it goes wrong - initial price system may work against stability
- long term. When more and more players come to game - it will need more currency to fulfill rising market users. This is much harder to balance and may harm long term assets value.
That is why I think that actual playtime should be the currency. I know that NQ is who decides everything, but we are here to share our thought and probably change someones mind if NQ members read and analyze forums
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It's to early to talk about the price right now. The price should be determined only by rarity and popularity of the resource. The final ship price of any class would be correlated with initial base resource price and costs of manufacturing of other building materials. And building a cheap ship should mean you won't be able to have advanced weapons or resource gathering modules, that is why the cheaper the ship is - the less profit it should bring, as it's natural ratio of investment and risks.
I agree that minerals should be spread somehow between planets, so only in pretty rare cases single planet may have most of them at small amount. But at the same time it shouldn't mean that some of the resources exist only in opposite corners of universe.
Scanning of resources should be difficult and interesting process that takes some time and requires knowledge. But at the same time mining should be also not an easy task as you would need to have small and fast miner with small cargo, or big vehicle, that mines fast and much, but is much more expensive/slow and easy to find/catch/kill.
I totally disagree with statement about "ships as cheap as possible" because in this case what's the need to gather resources then? I hope this game won't be like Lineage 2 pirate PVP server with x100000 rates, with endless meaningless fights.
You invest more - you can get more, you risk more - you can receive more, and at the same time lose more.
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1 hour ago, Primary said:
That would be cool, but wouldn’t it create a new way to steal stuff from other people? I mean, you could just beam up someone else’s materials, and they don’t even have time to stop it. It could be in space, and someone just hooks it up
Good point, but I believe to prevent this you just need to keep your materials in closed hangars or under protection. I believe this is how things would be stored even without this technology. Probably for extra safety we may configure both consumer and provider module to work with passwords. If both modules are configured with the same password - you can initiate beam transfer, if passwords differ - nothing happens.
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DACs may become ingame currency. So for example when you purchase DAC that equals to 30 day time, you can transform it into ingame currency smth like 1 billion mini dacs. So you will be always able to pay for you subscription directly by ingame currency, in its turn everything ingame will always have real value. So it may work a bit differently to what we see in EVE, but from by point of view it would be much better for several reasons:
- Natural currency deduction from market during game lifetime, currency amount is always limited
- Currency does not appear from nowhere
- People see real value in currency itself and estimate prices for ingame items according to it
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As DU resources would be quite physical thing that takes some volume and has mass, on large scale production complexes we would need to transport a lot of materials from one point to another.
So I guess it's not fun to use your character inventory to transfer large amount of resources from one cargo box to another, as well as it's not realistic if you have some invisible transfer system that allows you to load ship from what is stored in your base. That is why idea is to add several possibilities for transferring static non-vehicle objects by force ray.
The idea is to create 2 types of modules - consumer and provider type. Provider is a module that generates and controls vertical force ray, depending on it's level and size the ray may be of different max length and power (power will determine how much mass can be picked up or held). Consumer module will accept force ray and allow cargo to be picked up and moved by the ray. Consumer may be both special cargo box/fuel tank/ammo box or any other type of storage that exists in the game, or a separate module attached to storage item. So loading your ship looks like you stay close to storage box, connect the box by force ray to your ship and slowly move it up. Moving forward if in DU it would be possible to make sliding platforms - we can build smth similar to industrial cranes.
Abuses: actually to prevent abuses and some drop-ship creation, this mechanic may be limited only for structures/ships/players that are not in aggression state and limit what can be picked up only to storage item type.
What do you think about it guys?
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16 hours ago, Vellnn said:
I like the idea, but the mechanism for that wouldn't really be the rail would it?
English is not my native language, so probably I didn't find exact translation.
Currently here I was talking about two kind of things - some sci-fi trains (magnetic rails, or probably some force-field rail), the second thing about small scale mechanism that won't be counted as separate vehicle and allow one part of construct to slide on somehow determined straight line relatively to main construct part.
16 hours ago, Vellnn said:For example, if you made a train that was linked together with these "vehicle attaching component" things, and you ran out of fuel, and the fuel tank was on it's own section of the train, you could detach that section and attach a full fuel tank and be good to go. (The same concept works with cargo / a train car with weapons on it)
Currently this topic was not about attaching one vehicle to another in order to make them work together, but this would be also nice.
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51 minutes ago, 0something0 said:
On the other hand, this would give more power to the smaller players or groups so large, established groups won't be in control over everything. There could also be automated CIWS turrets to counter rammers.
Most likely this will work just in opposite way. The more people you have - the more cheap suicide damage you can do.
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26 minutes ago, TheAtlasWarrior said:
That sounds like a good idea, I think magnetic rails could also make vehicles hover, increasing the maximum speed that they can travel at, this could facilitate the transport of a lot of heavy cargo.
Actually trains may be faster on long distances, but to make them really interesting for people and large industry corps, they should have some advantages. Currently I see main advantage - fuel consumption per m3 transported.
The other thing that may contribute to gameplay - if people really find trains useful, they'll need to defend their cargo
so it may look like Wild West heist gameplay elements.
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2 minutes ago, TheAtlasWarrior said:
yeah, rails could be used as conveyor belts to move stuff, cause I'm sure that on stations or shipping facilities having hovercraft zipping around with cargo would be messy & annoying, rails on the other hand can keep all cargo containers orderly & in place, & something else that would be good to have is the ability to control the speeds at which a vehicle travels on rails, so if an org is pressed for time, they can make the cargo move quickly through a facility, but if they are ok on time, they can make things move at an average speed.
speaking about scale and speed:
- scale should differ from single voxel or even texture-like rail, that are used in small mechanisms, to big rails with physical structure depending on how much mass would be transferred and what speed.
- speed should be average if we talk about small rails, to high-rocket speed if you have advanced enough train with long rails.
- speed directly depends on rail size and length.
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18 minutes ago, TheAtlasWarrior said:
I can see this being used to move many cargo containers from a storage warehouse towards the hangar bay of cargo ships
I was also thinking about it, so just like in real world you would be able to load a ship with cargo, just by moving boxes.
This removed one of elements in building sand-box games that I hate the most - using player inventory as buffer between two cargo boxes/crafting stations.
20 minutes ago, TheAtlasWarrior said:I just hope if rails will be possible, that they won't be too hard to use/make.
It's actually what this all topic is about - to have simple mechanism that allows to create both simple and complex things when combined with scripting. And of course - that is why using hover vehicles is not the case.
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I like the idea, and actually had smth similar in my mind, but not only for weapons.
About modifiable pre-created modules - for example you have a basic module with initial balanced stats and it's ready to use. Also this module may have few upgrade slots, by placing some additional upgrade there allows you to subtract from some of the stats and add to your desired ones. So in other words add more specialization to module itself. Just like rigs in eve work, but with closer profit/drawback ratio.
Component based modules - should be allowed for large scale vehicles. For example you want to build really gigantic ship and you want to have the same gigantic fuel storage, but not thousands of smaller ones. So you should be able to build a large chamber with some special parts inside and until its integral - it may serve you. The way I see it - players should be given rules that should be followed to create some custom module - like required materials used for skeleton/parts attached to that skeleton/some special scripts used, etc. Then you can ask game to run validation of your module by marking it borders somehow and if it corresponds to initial rules - it's treated like custom created module that operates as normal ones. Regarding stats that such modules will receive - they may be calculated by some formula depending on size, materials used, number of supporting internal parts, etc.
On the other side I believe this shouldn't be applied to weapons, to prevent from creating super-duper-mass-kill turret. But it may suit just perfectly for large containers, fuel tanks, engines, generators, etc.
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I guess NQ mentioned about collision damage for ship vs environment but not in pvp. If game succeeds - imagine some fights where at least 50-100 people involved and at least part of them try to ram opponent. The load will be pretty high, especially if damage for constructs will be calculated for each separate voxel/module.
The main issue that collision damage is not actually instant thing, if two ships on high speed collide - to make it look at least fine you need to calculate damage for each voxel with small intervals. That may cover transition states of both vehicles before damage started to be taken/dealt to state when it stopped. In other case it may look like ships hit each other and on next frame both of them lose half of the ship, that is like comics reading not real time fight.
Even though it would be really cool to have ramming mechanics, it would be abused to destroy your capital ships or bases. Just by creating cheap rockets with an engine and ramming surface.
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7 hours ago, XRacerX said:
Will I be able to create our Real Life solar system to explore
This game is MMO and you won't be able to create solar systems or planets on your own, they would be procedure-generated. So in this case you will be able to explore only. You are able to change planet appearance by mining and building things on it, but from what I saw in devblogs and forums - planets would be really gigantic and it can take too much time to recreate landscapes from real life on them.
As for building stuff ingame - I believe you will be able to recreate real space rockets and adjust behavior of engines to be more similar to what we have in real life with lua scripts.
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"No Man's Sky-like"
It's like to tell people - "hey, that's cool new game... ok, maybe not so cool, like last time... but nice try..."
I wish NQ made new dev-blog or shared some details about test and new features...
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54 minutes ago, Vellnn said:
Technically you can already make rails. Just make them out of voxels. The hard part is making a vehicle that can use them properly.
Once again, it's not only about building trains, but also for smaller mechanisms that would be just a part of your ship or base, and will be able to move part of that ship or base without braking the integrity.
One of examples is kind of small carrier ship, that moves it back part on rails to clear place for smaller ship to be docked on it.
So the idea is to have small scale mechanism that won't be counted as a separate vehicle, so in theory you will be able to change shapes of your creation according to your needs without rebuilding it. Example above is just the simplest version of what may be done.
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1 hour ago, Lethys said:
Survival elements are planned for a much later patch but be aware that weather effects are very very hard to do due to the single shard nature of the gameworld: a raging thunderstorm looks different from space then on ground or from afar. So we won't possibly see that ingame.
I agree that this may be hard to implement, but probably there would be some way to achieve it.
1 hour ago, Lethys said:Adding some elements is fine imho, but it should be balanced in a way that such survival mechanics don't get tedious and people get annoyed with them because it's something you just have to do but don't gain anything significant out of it.
My initial idea was to add this to part of the planets, not all of them. So that people have more choices, in other words giving both casual and hardmode planets in terms of survival gameplay. And surely it was not about having some deadly weird stuff happening all the time all-around, but more like random or seasonal events that bring live into environment and its turn into players life. The reason is that playing sandbox games is really cool, but when you look at the environment around you for the first time - it's nice and shiny place, but then if you spend month in it, even having few different biomes - you may get bored, even if worlds are procedural generated you still know after some time what you can expect in the static worlds. Players actions can influence it, change the scenery, landscapes, but again it would be more static environment.
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Just to addition to my initial post, such hazards may be used as a natural protection for your well adapted bases/ships from the intruders or unwanted guests. Having base resistant to heat deep under lava planet would help you to feel safer and true survivalist. On the other hand if you want to conquer/rob/destroy such base - it would be much more interesting.
Also as I know people would be able to build some power plants and probably not all of them should use clean fuel, but most powerful should be kind of fusion reactors or smth like it. If nuclear power ever exists in the game I would like to see some kind of heavy explosions/pollution/catastrophe just like in real world in case this type of power plants are treated incorrectly, destroyed or abandoned. So people would need to think twice when they build or try to destroy such type of structures as it may lead to a deadly changes on at least part of the planet. In its turn it would be theoretically possible to make the whole planet uninhabitable with incorrect actions.
Again, I understand that this may never appear in the game, but we are here to share ideas until it's too late
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10 minutes ago, Lethys said:
Probably still in his ship. Guard it, kill him asap, profit. Or just deconstruct the whole thing and sell parts
if ship is deconstructed this is also funny
you can do it somewhere in the skies and just let owner fall and die on login. So I guess we need to wait for official explanations on how this should work.
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6 minutes ago, Lethys said:
Even without that tractor beam you can steal ships, that's not needed for mythe profession
Probably the idea was to steal ship even if pilot is inside. The funny thing that I don't understand is that if owner of ship logged out being inside that ship, then someone steals it. So where would the previous owner spawn?
inside stolen ship, that in its turn means he can get it back or in place where he logged off? The second variant seem a bit weird, as this may be open space, so first owner will be left only with suicide choice.
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This will just result in horde of pirates trying to steal each ship after someone logs off or leaves it for mining/exploring/etc.
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I believe that similar topic may be discussed somewhere in older posts, but...
The idea is to add parameters like Temperature, Radiation, random weather events. I know this is present in different games, like starbound, empyrion and probably many others, but it's also pretty logical step, especially if NQ is going to add more biome types to the game, that will correspond to existing planet types.
I hope you agree that life is completely different on temperate planet and on burning planets that are pretty close to stars (to say nothing about the star itself), the same as for gas giants or cold planets where temperature is close to 0 K. It means that if some ships, with hull made from basic materials, are fine for flying inside atmosphere of temperate planet should not survive on fire planet, where temperature may melt the ship. So it would be nice if all the materials were dedicated to stand against certain environment and protect people and modules that are inside your ship or base. If your construct or space suit does not correspond to environment - it takes damage over time and can be destroyed in result.
It would be logical that on gas giants (if they are added at some points) there would be endless storms that change how your electronics behaves, disable it or just make harder to operate without some special modules dedicated to negate the effect.
On fire planets you need fight with overheating and melting effect, along with some fire rains etc. The same when you are close to a star, it's not quite logical if you can approach to it on a tiny ship made mostly from iron.
Probably it's hard to implement and maintain in terms of server load, but I think this will only add more realism to the game and increase variety of civilization created inside game world with their special approaches to survive on different planets.
Rails system
in Builder Forum
Posted
Actually it's not correct as magnets pushed away from each other with force of certain power. If you push one of them with more power, it may overcome magnetic field strength so magnets would touch each other. That means for more weight you need either more(bigger) magnets, or more energy, or both. But that won't make any troubles as it's a natural balance.
Without scripts it would be fun, but with some programming you can get fully automated factories/trains/inner base transport system.
Actually when I was thinking about mega structures - if you are a visitor and you need to find smth fast - it would be really cool if you can just sit on some train or elevator, press right button and get yo your point in few minutes, rather than spending 1-2 hours just to find a location.