annoyanceturkeys

I think this is probably the best/only viable argument for subscription. Sure there are many other methods for companies to get money from a game, but this method works well for long term games like DU is aiming to be.

The subscription model stabilizes income for a service provider. Without it, NQ wouldn't be able to shell out millions every month for their ongoing infrastructure costs. Imagine the "pay as you go" model from a service provider perspective. They put together a massive server farm in advance, and hope you decide to play at least 60 hours a month. One week someone plays 12 hours, the next 2. The next week not at all. NQ can't rely on that income to operate. With a subscription, NQ knows how much money they have from month to month and can provide services accordingly. It's just an agreement.

Ye sure, but the OP meant something along the lines of a space billboard advertising : 

"McDonald's DU Happy Meal Special - order now!".

Wow this is a heated thread! Guess I'll throw my two cents in !
 
So regarding OP:
 
1.  I like the ideas of advertising eventually showing up in the game.  However I believe it should be only in game advertisement.  Like an organization pays a player to host a sign, things like that.  No advertisements from the real world.
 
I understand that the idea is to get novaquark more money but the in game advertising helps to regulate a healthy economy which is a benefit.  As soon as you introduce real money being used to influence the action of players, it turns into a very nasty real estate grab for companies to get prime advertisement spots.  Also,  I don't think many companies would be that interested in advertising in the game.  The amount of people that would be exposed to the advertisements would be minimal Which would make their return on investment small enough to not care.  
 
2.  I support the idea of being able to personalize things in-game.  However the concept of paying money for personalized things in a game which is already using a subscription model is ludicrous.  I would rather see players develop custom textures or logos and be able to use those.  It could even lean into brands where you may pay a premium for a ship because it has a certain logo so you know it was made by a certain player/organization.  But,  I don't think this would be technically possible.  I praise NQ for a lot of technical things but I really don't see how they could manage allowing custom images and still keep end user performance high.  But hey, I'm all for it if they can do it.
 
3.  No,  I'd rather see the staff of NQ spending their time improving the core game which would help everyone.
 
4.  The subscription based model is fine.  I prefer MMO's where the model is subscription based.  This will honestly be the first game I play that is monthly subscription based.  However,  I believe the content provided is of high enough quality to warrant it.  
 
Honestly, players who don't want to spend money on time they don't have to play, e.g pay for a month when they only have 5 hours or less per month, probably should not play DU.  The game will require quite a bit of playing and or grinding.  These players' time would probably be better spent on a different game that's not subscription based.
 
I understand that incomes are different for different parts of the world. And,  for some people the current price model is too expensive even with an ok income.  For people in those parts of the world I would totally be for them paying less.  However, I also understand the impossibility of this.  Since there would be some jerks out there who would try to take advantage of this and exploit a cheaper price when they have plenty of money and live in a relatively wealthy country.
 
5.  This just seems kind of silly honestly.  I mean I understand where your coming from, but it's just silly.  There will no doubt be countless of videos or streams to watch on DU.  I would imagine people would watch these, or play on a friend's account to see if they are interested in the game.    
 

Hiding in your proud self confidence (which you most probably did not much to earn, just have been born in better environment) you don't even try to read what is written. I did not write about human rights and did not say, that someone should play game, which is commercial product without paying. All I wrote was that sometimes these few dollars or euros, which you (and me) are trowing out without care, are being earned way harder by others and they don't want to pay full price if they don't have time to play the game a lot because they are " improving their situation, not wasting time in some VR". If you are so confident in yourself, try to buy a ticket to some Eastern Europe country and see by yourself what these people do for 300 euros - I bet you have never ever worked in you life that well and that hard. And when you'll be there, see that, try to teach them how to "improve" . And there are whole areas where these 300 per month are the top of "improving" as most of their neighbors don't have job at all. But if they would have an option to pay a decent fee for the time they have to spend in game, they might consider that option and that would bring additional funds to game developer - otherwise these funds won't reach him at all.
 
I know it because my father, retired man, lives in one of such small towns and knows locals, knows how hard they try to "improve", but often my father, ends up helping them though he's retired and gets only retirement pension. And this is not the worst country regarding level of the life. There are places even worse than that.
 
And once again - this is not about "have a pity on these poor people and give them game for free" - they don't want your pity - they just count their money bit more than me and you do... and they want to pay the price according to the time spent in game. 

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
 
Those billboards in Sci-Fi movies are expertly designed and placed as part of the script. They contribute to the story and lore. What you're thinking of are the lame product placement ads in TV shows and low budget movies where heroes are obviously driving a certain brand of car or drinking a certain brand of soft drink. In other words, you're paying to watch advertisements that are shoved in your face.
 
If I pay for a product or service, and I'm forced to see advertisements, I'll stop paying.
 
Advertisements have a place, like in hell, or on toilet paper. Not in a universe that's being created from the ground up. Hopefully we get that part right.

I’m not sure why you assume I have not read all of Novaquark’s articles and watched all the videos or use the search function for the forum. Indeed I have done all of those. Perhaps I fail to remember details I’ve read from time to time - or express similar ideas with different words (thus not finding them in the forum search),
 But I think that is largely irrelevant - these are my own ideas, thoughts and perspective not Novaquark’s, - other people may or may not have thought the same things. I merely desire to share my thoughts with you all.
 
 
 

Actually that’s incorrect - if you would read this devblog post ; p
https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2016/04/08/monetization-player-happiness-and-economic-viability/
You would see this. 
Possible (cosmetic only) Cash Shop. If deployed, we will make it in order that every month, players who have paid a subscription will be able to get some cash shop items for free.
 
 

The argument that I am advocating concepts that have been tried before and failed therefore don’t advocate them anymore is invalid.
   The whole idea of this game is something that has never been accomplished before.
Yes take a look at why it’s failed before. Yes take a look at what the real problems are with these ideas. But don’t assume that solutions to problems cannot be found.
 
 
 
 

Yes that is the obvious hurdle to overcome for player created content. I guess where we differ is you are like ‘can’t be done ever’  -- I’m like what are the solutions to overcoming this hurdle. These same types of limitations are what would lead one to think DU could never actually be a thing - yet here we are. Now is the time to look for solutions to old problems not say -- the way they did it in the past is the only way and that didn’t work.
 
 
 
 

Actually no - I mean to say some people buy a Starbucks 1 a week others 1 a day. Giving your customers different price point options gets you a wider customer base. It’s just common sense sales. Which I’m sure Novaquark has thought plenty about - they’re pretty smart guys; and know all the details of what it will take to make their business profitable in their context. I as an outsider am just offering my perspective as a customer. It’s a fact that there are a lot of people for whom this game is outside of their price point.
  It may be that the cost of servers for this tech is so high that this is the only choice. I’m merely suggesting possible solutions. Of course Novaquark needs to cover their costs and make a profit.  
 
 
Yep, yep that is totally what I said; you can read almost the exact same words here.
 
 
 
 

Yep I agree. With the exception that - not everyone who enjoys playing COD falls into the trap of buying each repeat/expansion whatever; and thus can enjoy it for a one time cost.  Pretty much what I said here.
 

Great so we agree COD and DU have a similar price point at the high end.
And we agree that DU cannot allow people to play a 3 year old version of the game like is possible with other games.
So I’m just suggesting  a possible way Novaquark could also offer lower price point options.
When you offer a product at a lower price point you don’t just give the same thing for a cheaper price.
Obviously you would loose money that way.
No your lower price point products have less value to the customer and less cost to you - so you can still make a profit at the lower price. That’s why the cheaper options in my proposal have a limit to how much you can play. If you want unlimited hours you have to pay more.
Now how much you would have to restrict cheaper options would have to be determined by Novaquark.
That’s why I said.
 
 

I haven’t seen Novaquark talk about these details. And I would be surprised if they did. I would be very interested to read it if that is around somewhere.
Point me to it.
I mean their annual taxes, salaries, business operating expenses, server costs, cost per offline player, cost per online player, forecasted number of players buying the game, forecasted number of offline and online players at any given time. Those are the things you need to know to figure how much to charge and make a profit.
 
Maybe after all those calculations you get to where they are right now and determine that $10/month subscription is the only viable way.
 
If that ends up being the case then I’ll dump my Eve subscription and pay $120 or whatever a year. And none of my friends will join me. Just the way it is - they’re not second class people for saying that is outside of their price point. And Novaquark is not evil for doing what it takes to be a successful business. Just calm down.
 
I have no way of knowing these details so I’m just offering a concept as a possible solution from my perspective.
 
 
Of course that is an option for people with lots of time to play; and their reward for building up the game universe.
That could work for a kid living at home with nothing to do. Doesn’t work so well for people with families expenses and limited time for playing games.
 
All in all good criticisms from smart people. And mostly I agree with the concerns brought up. Good on ya for not looking at ideas with rose colored glasses - but critically looking at the problems.
   Just don’t be negative nancy’s - critically looking at problems shouldn’t automatically lead to “it can’t be done”
It should make you aware that there is a problem in the way - and help you see how to overcome it.
 
It seems the one thing I disagree with a lot of you is the benefit of a large player base. Seems a lot of you have the perspective the cost level has the added benefit of keeping unwanted riff raff out. While I agree there are certain people you want to keep out. I think it would be better to rely on other methods to achieve that - not just cost.
BECAUSE - I believe that a larger player base would improve what this game is trying to be and make for much deeper and more dynamic emergent gameplay.
 
That is the primary reason I started thinking about these things.
 
On a final note - I appreciate people who bluntly speak their minds and I get great enjoyment out of a good argument - so thanks and carry on.
I apologize if my response is anything less then the appropriate level of tact - sometimes because the way I enjoy arguments people think I am offended -
that is not my intent at all.
 
Fly Wrecklessly,
Semper Fidelis,
Captain Hilts

To be honest ... I don't like seeing advertising anywhere but it's reality these days, and I see no reason why advertising wouldn't be a thing in the new DU universe even though the whole universe is basically being built from scratch.
 
Given that we are all used to seeing advertising if controlled it could be a good revenue stream for NQ.
Given the player led nature of the content maybe this is something players may choose to do in order to generate revenue to fund their own subscriptions.
 
I would say ... make it possible, but not a requirement.
If you don't like someone's advertising ... there' always the "declare war" option right?
 
 

My dislike for "improve-by-use" skill systems in MMO's stems from the fact that it inevitably leads to AFK botting, especially in PVP games, where people fear "falling behind" other players who have more play time than them. before you know it, everyone's botting in an attempt to either stay ahead or to catch up.
 
EVE and DU's planned time-based training means you can play the game without having to spend hours repetitively grinding skills so that you can be "viable" in PVP.

This only leads to afk people, bots and unfair advantages of nolifers who can play 24/7 - so no ty