Kiklix
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Joined
Posts posted by Kiklix
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Lots of harvesting. Something I ponder though. I wonder if each organization is it's own arkship and if so, do large organizations get a planet to themselves.
The game will depend on player driven content/creations. In a PVP world this is best solved by allowing people to not be bugged/ganked while building. I know there will be safe zones, but it makes a ton of sense on many fronts to give each organization their own arkship and possibly even their own planets.
It could be months before people have the materials gathered to fly. This would allow for civilizations to get their cities/strongholds up and running.
If this is not the case. I predict a lot of ganking, pvp, griefing and attempts to keep other organizations from building their cities. In the early days of dual this could be bad. It makes sense to me to let people get in and start making the world, unhindered by pvp.
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As most of you are aware Novaquark is laying down the foundation for Dual Universe. They need to get the game in a strong alpha state before they launch their kickstarter campaign. This means that some of the purely aesthetic aspects of the game will have to come later on, like outfits, player customization etc.
This thread is for those who would like to dream of the kinds of elements or "props" as they are called in some other games that they would like to see in dual.
There are many different types of elements.
• Active elements: Elements that have a function and will most likely be scriptable (rocket boosters, guns, conduits for energy transfer, etc).
• Superficial elements: Elements that are made for decoration only. These are to help add atmosphere to a construct (pots/pans, soda cans etc).
• Superficial Working elements: Elements like stoves, sinks, toilets. Elements that "work" in game with opening doors, flowing water etc, but have no function outside of immersive aspects.
• Emitter elements: Elements that give off an effect such as lightning or electric arcs, waterfalls/flowing water, steam vents etc. These would fall under active elements in most cases.
List what kind of active or superficial elements would you like to see ultimately in Dual Universe?
I will start off with these:
• Active elements:
- Ramp doors. Doors that extend outward to allow for easier ingress/egress into a ship style construct.
- Shield windows. Windows that have closable blast shields.
• Superficial elements:
- Desks
- Chairs
- Soda cans
• Superficial Working elements:
- Rotating fans. Fans that rotate at various speeds, couple well with steam vents.
- Spinning gears. Gears of various sizes that rotate to make mechanical looking machines.
• Emitter elements:
- Steam Vents that blow gusts of steam.
- Electric arcs.
- Heads up displays with the ability to change the color of the hud.
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Welcome Qddiez! I feel ya on the playing games only a few hours a week. For myself, there is just nothing pulling me in. The gaming industry seems to be in a lull in regards to good MMO's. Also, your English reads fine, no need to apologize. Anyone who ever gives you hell for your English is just jealous they can not speak another language.
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Hey TylerFB. Welcome to the Dual Universe forums! Dual is shaping up to be a pretty amazing game. Make sure you check out the dev blog and their art. Some really cool stuff!
https://devblog.dualthegame.com/
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Welcome berglion!
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I just wanted to say THANK YOU to the COPS community for pushing us past the 50 member point. Glad to see there are so many like minded individuals coming to Dual Universe and finding interest in our growing community.
- Michaelc, Bella_Astrum, Xorkil and 3 others
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My point of view is that designating ship types adds fun and depth to the constructs we all make. From a practical perspective though people will call their ships what they want to call them simply because they like the name type. Delegating ship types names will be doable inside of an given organization, but I highly doubt these names types will be reinforced on a global, game wide scale.
I say let people call their ships whatever they want to call them. Personally I would love to go up against a mothership that is the size of a smart car, with it's two person capacity.
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I second Voltron
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- Jett_Quasar and Astralator
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I made no assumptions. It's why I use words like "trying, seems, and may". I am disagreeing with your assertion that the issue is a fundamental one at all. I believe it to be a semantic one, therefore what I wrote IS relevant to this discussion. So allow me to rephrase in this case.
MAYBE this game isn't for people who can't code. This game will include coding, and if you know anything about LUA you would understand that you can't simplify this anymore than has already been stated by the devs and still consider it coding. Even if it's a graphical editor you will still need to know how LUA works.
The ability and talent to perform any complex skill like scripting in DU will not necessarily equate to power. The "ramifications" you write of are "nothing but the product of an inference predicated on previously accumulated intelligence and experience." Just like everyone else's view here. The truth is far more simple. You don't know if it will be a problem. So stop making it out like it is.
As for this previous little gem.
Now lets assume that designers, people like myself, get to import mesh objects of spaceships or buildings or entire cities that they built in a 3D program like Maya, Cinema 4D, 3DS max etc. We get to make all of our stuff off line, out of the game and import it easily, but not just that, we also get better fidelity objects, shapes that can not be created using voxels. We simply will have the best ships, or cities in the game. These designs will be desired and will fetch a large price on the free market.
Would you honestly be happy with this? Knowing that nothing you make will ever compete with the competition unless you go earn a degree in 3D modelling? Would you be happy that the game 'favors' designers over anyone else?
If that was a major function of the game? Like the game was designed to cater to those people? If I were one of them? Yes, yes I would be happy with this.Well said Wardion2000. You might be right...well and if this is the case I admit defeat.
I was under the impression that Novaquark was creating a single shard sandbox where hundreds of thousands of people can build cool stuff, explore, create worlds, governments and factions... and to possibly make some money on the side with a healthy fan base existing of people who adore many aspects of game play. I must have missed the Dev Blog about how the game is designed to solely cater to people who code and that the other aspects of game play take second stage to coders and that Novaquark is ok with a 20 year plan to recoup the investment cost of making Dual Universe due to their infinitesimal player base of coders.
I am sorry for misunderstanding that Novaquark was trying to appeal to as large as player base as possible. The...the only I can't figure out is why they would need all this server tech designed to hold thousands of players in a small space. I don't understand why they felt the burning desire to change game engines to a game engine that handled a larger player load. I don't understand why some of us were invited into alpha to test the building tools as the prolific builders we are.
I am confused...all of a sudden so many things are not adding up.
- nietoperek and Bella_Astrum
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Though there may be coders who DO want to unbalance the game in their favor. I think we are a far cry from labeling the entire bunch (myself included) in the same stroke. There's no conspiracy here.
As for a coders ability to just copy paste. It's not that easy. If I write a code I will then have to test it to see if it works. Will it work the way I intended? Will it work to my satisfaction? Will the design of the ship alter how I must write the code? Will it work at all? None of the answers will come out of a vacuum. Real life avionics software designers will tell you the same thing. They create the program FOR the airframe. Not the other way around. Making a graphical interface for scripting will change NONE of this. You cannot make it any simpler than 'do you understand coding or don't you?' Anything else is no longer coding. If you are advocating against the entire process I think you are missing the point of THIS game.
THIS game is trying to appeal to the coders and builders. THIS game seems to be catering to the people that like to create and is giving us the tools to do so. So I say this to you Kiklix with absolutely no malice, you may have to go elsewhere for your gaming needs. THIS game might not be the one you're looking for.
Secondly, the hypothetical where one might have 90% builders seems far fetched to me. Having the tools for voxel crafting doesn't necessarily mean most people will be good builders. Being able to stack shapes together makes you no more a builder than being able to right words makes you a coder. I don't see builders outnumbering coders at all or more correctly I don't see coders being in higher demand.
Now think about this. How many people are actually GOOD at making anything in games like Minecraft, Space Engineers, Kerbal, Starmade, Empyrion, From The Depths, and Besiege? Whether it's making a space ship with complex internal workings or turning Minecraft into a working CELL PHONE. These people exist. They are a small percentage of the actual player base. Yet all these games are still successful. The majority of those playing these games have none of the skills I am writing about. Yet they still play and make these games successes. Why? Because it's a sandbox. Where one can create at their leisure and finding out what they can do is more important than how they do it.
I suggest you go back and re-read my posts. Your assumptions here have already been explained in detail above outside of the fact that you are brining up points that are irrelevant to this discussion as you are arguing semantics and not the fundamental issue, which is do we allow the smallest portion of the player base the most power, which is exactly what some of the people in this very thread are proposing...no conspiracy necessary.
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Someone PM me.
Number crunching this makes it obvious that design will always outweigh the coding ability of anyone and we're making a whole massive deal over this than it needs to be.
I want new people to code. I do.
I just don't want to see, if we CAN fine-tune code by using text, being outclassed by this easier format.
Effort In->Result Out I suppose.
PM required for my understanding.
Actually number crunching would be the complete opposite. Supply and demand ensures coders in this regard would be the ones making large profits. The only way your statement holds true is if the majority of the player base are coders and the minority are builders.
If Dual Universe is found to be appealing to a wide audience, the people who code will be in short supply. The coders know this, and this is why the coders are fighting to make sure that "coding is as hard as possible in game". They are trying to unbalance the game in their favor. The understand the laws of supply and demand. If 10% of the population can code and the other 90% are builders, guess who is going to needs whos help. It's not going to be coders needing builders help, it will be builders needing coders help. Which means in an free market, the coders will be able to charge A LOT MORE for their money than a builder will.
The thing is, building will take longer than coding wiil especially when you consider people can write lua ousdie of the game and simply copy paste it into game, where as builders will need to be in game.
So, what this does is it makes the coders the richest of the rich with their high demand skills which means they will have to harvest less if at all as plenty of people will be willing to lay down free spaceships at their feet in exchange for some of their coding.
This heavily weighs the economy in favor of people who can code, this is in fact game breaking and once the community overall understands the ramifications in giving a small group of people this much power, people will quit the game. I have seen it over and over and over again in every game that lacks reasonable balance.
It seems to me that you, like so many of the coders in this thread are heavily biased towards coders being able to have this luxury....but lets not be hypocritical in thought.
Lets turn the tables 180 degrees.
Lets now assume that the lua scripting in Dual will be handled inside of an easy to use interface (much like voxels are) and this is all the coders get. They have limitations put on them by Dual (much like voxel builders do).
Now lets assume that designers, people like myself, get to import mesh objects of spaceships or buildings or entire cities that they built in a 3D program like Maya, Cinema 4D, 3DS max etc. We get to make all of our stuff off line, out of the game and import it easily, but not just that, we also get better fidelity objects, shapes that can not be created using voxels. We simply will have the best ships, or cities in the game. These designs will be desired and will fetch a large price on the free market.
Would you honestly be happy with this? Knowing that nothing you make will ever compete with the competition unless you go earn a degree in 3D modelling? Would you be happy that the game 'favors' designers over anyone else?
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i love it, can i get a 360 of it? cause i wanna make this in starmade. Also some interior pictures?
Sorry, don't have a 360 and this thing is decked to the nines in the interior.
Here is the backside of a different ship I worked on, these are the engines.
I had to stop working on this project because the game could not handle the prop count.
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ahh ok
here is one I made for someone else in game.
If you look at the center of the ship, you will see my character standing on it. This gives you an idea of scale (longest I could make in game).
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what voxel game starmade?
Landmark.
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SGU Destiny here I come
We are going to be friends.
Those who have seen my spaceships in the other voxel game I played know the kind of stuff I will be making. I will most likely be starting off with a redo-refresh-reorganization of my pirate spaceship. It's already designed to work, I just need to make it and plug in elements.
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Works for me. Enjoy your time in game with all your other coding buddies. Your elitist attitudes will kill it for everyone else. No one likes a know it all, especially when that know it all in truth knows very little.
BTW, I do my own taxes as well for myself and my business not that it's relevant to anything.
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You are more intelligent than us, we get the memo already (about 1000 times now).
But it CAN be done like this, by simplifying input methods, giving players pre-made "blocks" and so on. Again: you and rest of IT guys will have all possibilities to code whatever you want. Why you try to restrict others to have fun in some basic programming?
PS: I already know answer, but I remain silent, cause it is somewhat embarrassing for "programmers elite" XD
This is my point exactly. I am already seeing a holier than thou elitist attitude out of the coding communtiy. This will not go well in the game and frankly...its heavily turning me off right now. I have been one of the most vehment and postive supporters of this game over anyone, but if they allow an elisist group of the populatioon to shit on the rest of us, I am out of here.
If a coder can make super cool amazing whoop de doo whizzler thingamabobs and attach them to a voxel BRICK and win over a hand crafted nice looking spaceship with basic scripting of the elements. This game will die before its born.
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Your arguement, sadly, is faulty. Code is interpreted in-game, nobody imports anything from external sources. Importing ships, from any external source, would be costly on the server. Code is not expensive. It's at best, kilobytes heavy. A mesh, is megabytes, on order of magnitude and quite the multiplicative in nature, given any colouring or textures you might have added on top of, which the game engine would then have to relay TO EVERYONE in the server, hogging down resources. LUA is universal and already exists in every players' drive with the game's binaries. Voxels exist in every player's binaries as well, so do elements the devs add. Your ships and textures from Maya, do not. Except you might want for the game to skyrocket to a 1 terrabyte worth of ship textures.
Again, you have a background in designing, you can plan out your design of a ship. I don't. My thing, is programming. Someone else's is logistics and economics, to study and plan what kind of minerals can be used. Another's is tactical thinking. You want add-ons for that as well? cause if you are bad at PvP, you'll be bad at PvP and as the ancient forum monks of PvP say : "Git Gud". It applies on coding as well.
No, my argument is completely solid. You again, as I told you in the PM failed to understand the core of the conversation.
This is not about coding or building, its about offering the same level of play to every customer. Why should coders be the "elite" people who will make the most money in game? Answer, there is no reason. I really should not have to explain it past this point, if you fail to grasp this concept, the rest will be over your head.
And your anti mesh argument, is completely flawed. The mesh is only a brush. They can set a guide to the polygon count and if need be allow the mesh to be ported in stages for larger constructs. As far as materials, simple, just make the players have to paint them in game easy.
A blueprint will be nothing more than your voxel creation in mesh form. Importing a mesh made outside the game (like they did with their demo) is completely doable.
NOTE: I am not actually arguing for the desire to import meshes, I think you missed the sarcasm. I am arguing that one group of players should not have the upper hand based on the limitations of the game for the other group of players. If you are allowed to have the upper hand in coding, then I want the upper hand in designing (importing meshes).
Neglecting the majority of the games population and forcing elitist attitudes right out of the gates (from the coding community) is not a good way to start off a game.
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Sarcasm aside, you miss the point of programming. It's not a "put blocks together" kind of thing. If it was so, they devs wouldn't have added a LUA interpreter in the game. Programming is not about "connecting dots", it's about planning out the code's infrastructure before writing it. People who write code and course-correct, are usually bad programmers, writing very basic programs.
And on the designing part, you are confusing the ease of access to those two things. As a designer you would be initiated into the workings of planning out and creating symmetrical shapes that people like. I can't, what does that mean? That the devs should give me every possible architectural paraboles in the game? Or every possible configuration of ship frames to be on the same level as a good desinger? And even then, you would build things that are fashionable and possibly functional. Programming is not like that. You can't build "pretty code", you can only build a solid, functional code.
I am not advocating against on simple blocks for people to create basic ships, these functions are easy to package into predefined DPU blocks in the game to add to a ship, but you can't expect a swiss army knife of a DPU, able to do all functions on a single loop system being implemented, just so the uninitiated to be on "the same level". If programming was so easy, it would not take years to master and the devs are planning for an A.I. type of targeting system, so capital ships can prioritise targets of their choosing and depending on their role in a fleet, not to mention cruise controls for ship drivers to work with to escape being locked in a firing run. You can't put all that in predefined DPU blocks. If you want to be a programmer, for LUA at least, it's a very basic language, based on logic and some mathematical procedures. It's not something arcane only a select few of the population have the mental faculties to pursue. It's all about dedicating time, practising and knowing math and a bit of tenacity when the code is bugging and you need to locate the reason for why.
You miss the point, see my message above. And your argument applies to design as well.
You are arguing semantics, I am arguing fundamentals.
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I fully second Kiklix statement. And I can even add that only real soldiers should have permission to do PvP. And only real-life pilots will be allowed to operate starships, because random player can do lot of damage by flying without proper training.
Maybe even devs should create some sort of authentication/license system to be sure that any filthy casual do not do any unregulated stuff IN GAME?!!
Think of the children!
Well, I think that if coders are going to be given special treatment, then so should every other player in game. Allow me to port meshes of spaceships vs working with voxels. Just like the scripting will be basic and can only get you so far, so should voxels. Coders want to the ability to outshine their competition, allow designers to do the same. Let me port in meshes of ships I make in maya or cinema 4D. Seems fair to me, I am all for it!
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I'm not going to make any friends by saying this, but I don't think the LUA programming aspect should cater to the lowest common denominator.
There will be people in the game who are good at coding, so let them do the programming for the components that are sold on the market.
Making the programming aspects of the game cater to people who don't know anything about programming really just feels like another excuse to cater to people who don't want to have to interact with anyone else in the game ever.
If you don't know how to program, find someone who does and pay them to do the work you need done, or learn how write code yourself.
Sure there will be example bits of code provided for us, as NQ already stated, but don't cheapen the whole experience of programming by turning into a Visual Basic clone.
I disagree. By your logic we should then only allow building to the real life designers. Why should coders get preferential treatment, especially when they will be a smaller portion of the player base. It seems unfair and illogical to cater to one......ohh wait.
Actually no, you are right. I absolutely agree that only real life coders should be able to script ships, and just so that I am not a hypocrite I also suggest that only people with design degrees should make stuff in game. After all, I don't want to have to look or work with terribly designed voxel creations.
If you don't know how to design, find someone who does and pay them to do the work you need done, or learn how to design yourself.
(note to the laymen: Good design does not mean just pretty. Good design is the perfect marriage of aesthetics and function and just because you can lay down a voxel does not make you a designer.) /sarcoff
- Atmosph3rik, Dominar and nietoperek
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It is perfectly clear. We are visited by some kind of extraterrestrial alien lifeform, and it try to communicate with us. But due to heavy pollution of Earth atmosphere, signals come somewhat distorted and obfuscate.
EASY THERE PAL. I resemble your statement and let me be perfectly clear, your atmosphere and by extension the air under it taste like what you earthlings refer to as "dog poop".
It's not always easy to keep a clear head on your planet. That is why we sometimes abduct humans instead of cows...worthless humans.
- Atmosph3rik and Xorkil
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What do you think will happen when the game drops?
in General Discussions
Posted
I feel ya.