KlatuSatori
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Posts posted by KlatuSatori
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A partial mix of both would be a good thing to look into, using in game mechanics. You have multiple bodies, perhaps you train different knowledge into them, and this could also allow you multiple aliases.
As it is with the spy game, its almost perfect if you have totally separate characters, e.ve. However, If all your alt characters were just clones somewhere, you could also monitor other chat systems by proxy without logging out, discretely or not, I dont know how the chat works right now so its hard to say.
Excellent idea. Perhaps some kind of futuristic disguise/alter-ego mechanic that allows you to appear as a completely different character. Lore-wise it could be related to the Resurrection Nodes somehow. Maybe you can only switch to and from your alter-ego using an RN. Maybe advanced skills allow you to have multiple alter-egos. Whatever the system, there should be some non-trivial way of seeing through alter-egos, or knowing whether a character has alter-egos.
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I saw a video once about the actual scale of the solar system and they had little marbles almost a kilometre apart to show it correctly. You needed something like 11 Kilometres to show the entire solar system to scale using marbles...
That's a lot of empty space.. and I'd like it to be either filled with things to do, or closed down into a more manageable size. The first one more though.
Things to do and places to see if better than nothing (meaning space) in my books. Asteroids fields, rouge planets and all that. Especially moving from system to system, if the FTL doesn't work instantly then you're going to be travelling through nothingness a lot without it.
Yeah I completely agree. Empty space is definitely a lot more boring than "stuff" even if you do reduce the distances. But you can't go too crazy reducing distances because then the awesome scope and wonder of space is lost. Plus NQ have said on a couple of occasions that the technology in the game will progress as time goes by.
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i'd vote for shrinking the space between the stars by a lot, so that if we can travel within 24h with our normal sublight engines to neighboring solar systems. As for random encounters, few are ok, but if you find them literally everywhere its just boring.
I wasn't thinking literally everywhere - they should be littered throughout space at reasonable, variable distances. Interstellar space would still be largely empty, definitely emptier than interplanetary space. For a rough guide of what I imagine, I'd say someone dedicated to looking for them would be able to find one or two per hour on average in a "primitive" FTL drive.
Personally I don't like the idea of being able to get to a neighbouring system at sublight speed. I'm for making the stars quite well clustered together but it should still take an FTL drive to get there in any reasonable length of time (i.e. up to 24 hours or so). But I think our difference here is just in semantics.
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Nice idea. +1 for this or something similar.
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What if I am not interested in taking over it? I just want to raze it to the ground
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I think you need to get a sense of the scale here. Somewhere between 80% and 95% of the galaxy is considered interstellar space based on my fag packet maths (the other 5-20% that is solar system space is also approx 100% empty space, star/planets etc make up 0% of the solar system by volume). Even if they threw in around 1000 interstellar points of interest for every solar system in the game, the total amount of empty space in the game would still come to 80-95% - I mean it would have virtually no effect on the vast emptiness
My point is that there will still be plenty of empty space for you to have a space station in the middle of nowhere. Though how you would build it I don't know because there would be no local resources to use. It would be slightly more possible if there were content in the depths of space as resources would be closer.
As for realism, we don't really know what is realistic in this regard. We know there are probably more rogue planets in the galaxy than stars but that doesn't say much.
I completely agree about alien artefacts. I was just thinking they would be a source of materials, and perhaps a place to stash a few things, or in the case of large structures, actually build on top of them. I was thinking that any advanced tech on them would be beyond our comprehension or completely decayed and useless.
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I've mentioned this in one or two places but thought it would be good to get it in a thread of its own.
Dual Universe is to be a seamless single shard game world with multiple star systems. That means that the space between stars is somewhere players can go. What would be the point in filling vast regions of the game world with nothing but empty space?
It follows then that interstellar space should be packed with content. Since DU is to be procedurally generated this shouldn't be difficult to implement. All that's needed is ideas for what to put out there. Some ideas are rogue planets, rogue gas giants with moons, brown dwarf systems, huge asteroid fields, some the size of small solar systems, mysterious wreckages of alien technology such as space stations and spacecraft, or even battlefields. Any other ideas for this kind of content welcome.
NQ have said that it will probably be several months after launch before players manage to get into space. While getting into space is an end in and of itself, it is really a stepping stone to the much more glorious end of getting to other worlds. If it takes several months to advance far enough to get to space, how long before the entire starting solar system has been explored and partially colonised?
The next step of getting from one solar system to another dwarfs the task of getting from one world to another. Having a rich and dense interstellar medium means getting a foothold on a nearby rogue planet can serve as a stepping stone for getting further out and eventually reaching another star system. This helps with having exploration of the game world flow nicely without requiring sudden leaps in what is possible. It also keeps the sense of wonder alive and maintains that feeling of there always being another frontier to strive for.
Having a rich interstellar medium has far reaching gameplay and immersion implications. Keeping the struggle for each greater step into the wider universe is one. But imagine discovering an asteroid field so vast and varied that it's resources could sustain a large group of players for months. You could set up bases in space or on one or two of the larger bodies, become self sufficient, gather riches, grow strong and expand further. A solo or small group of players could find somewhere completely out of the way to construct a base of operations that is unlikely to be found. Or at a more advanced stage of the game, a large organisation could set up secret bases on rogue planets outside a system dominated by a rival organisation in preparation for an attack. The differences in play styles and natural asymmetry that would develop between rivals because of where and how they live and survive would be stark. The possibilities are endless.
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I couldn't agree more on 'increasing awareness and develop countermeasures'. This is preferable than uber control over every aspect of the game.
Yeah +1 here too
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The real problem with cloaky campers in Eve is the cynosural fields. Stealth bombers can't cause an amazing amount of problems on their own.
Personally I think everything should have a counter, whether it's a hard counter or soft counter. Cloaking is something that should have a hard counter. So you can fit a cloaking device on a ship, perhaps at the expensive of strong defenses? Well you can also fit a scanning device that de-cloaks cloaked ships, perhaps at the expensive of strong weaponry. Caught by cloaked ships without scanners? You're probably going to have a bad day. Caught by a mixed fleets including scanner ships when your entire fleet is cloaky? Very bad day.
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From all that it is clear that anywhere outside the ASA or arkified territories will be a PvP free for all. You go out there and make your living out there at your own risk and should be well prepared. There will be automated defenses you can use and there will definitely be mechanics in place that don't require you to be on the look out 24/7 for invaders, but ultimately you need to have good defensive plans and strategies in place. Use your ingenuity to ensure your continuing survival out in the wild where the riches are...
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NQ have mentioned invulnerability mode in a few places.
About the Alpha devblog comments section https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/08/17/about-the-alpha-gameplay/:
This is a common and recurrent problem in persistent sandbox worlds. But several games have proven that some game mechanics can temper the necessary online presence. As much as we are gamers, we don’t want to see gamers obliged to stay in game for countless hours, just to protect their buildings, ships or starbases. Nothing is set in stone yet… But we have many ideas to find the right balance. One, for example, would be to implement a possible “Invulnerability” mode (for a limited number of hours) when your territory is attacked. That way, even if you’re at work or sleeping, you won’t have to worry and will have time to prepare (calling your friends, putting additional defenses, or evacuate all valuables things if the threat is too big) before the Invulnerability runs off. Again this is just one of the ideas we currently have, nothing certain yet. But we are keeping this problem in mind while developing the game, that’s for sure!
There's also an interesting post by NQ in the comments section of the Arkship Security devblog https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/09/13/arkship-security-or-where-does-pvp-starts/
As the design has been directed so far (it may change during the project evolution), we plan to offer two possibilities to the players:
– If a player wants to have zero risk to be interrupted or attacked while designing a ship, the best option will be to build a small base in the secured area around the arkship. This option will emphasize “Security First”, but this will be unlikely the best option for optimal productivity for many reasons.– If a player wants to have a very efficient base (installed near useful materials sources), there will be risk. Of course, it will be possible to set up powerful defenses to repel other players. But no defense will be designed to be completely unbeatable. Some hostile force can always be more powerful, either by numbers or by raw firepower. If such scenario happens, your base won’t be destroyed on the spot: When your base defenses will be running low, or about to be destroyed, your base will enter a temporary invulnerability mode. The duration of this mode is not exactly defined yet, but it should be at least 24 hours, to let the attacked player have time to react (calling his friends to defend his base, packing his base and relocating, etc).Nothing is set in stone yet, but these are currently the main ideas of the conceptMore recently in a response in the territories devblog thread https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/296-devblog-territory-control/:
This is too early to explain in details how difficult/time consuming it will be to destroy or hack a Territory Unit. Keep in mind this is an advanced feature: This won't be in Alpha. Only in Beta. And to announce right now how the balance will be wouldn�t be realistic, while we haven't talked about the combat system itself yet. Same thing for the hacking system. There will be a bit of "capture the flag" in the process, but this won't be that simple.However, what we can say about it are the main design ideas we have in mind:1) Having a Time window for TU owner to react to an aggression: we don't want to see players feeling the need to be on guard 24h/24 7d/7 in the game. So after an attack lowering the shield or structure of the TU to a certain point, or a succeeded attempt to hack the TU, the involved unit will enter a temporary invulnerability mode (probably between a 24h and 48h time window).2) It's only after the temporary invulnerability mode has faded that the real attack hack can begin, and you should expect defensive from the owner(s). The victory will be decided by the most prepared side. Players in defense will have a "Stand your ground" scenario while players in attack will have a "Capture the Flag" scenario.3) If the owner(s) didn't show themselves once the temporary invulnerability has faded, then destroying or hacking will probably be a matter of minutes (we are aware that shooting repeatedly for hours at something to destroy it is boring, so, if no resistance is encountered, the unit should be taken down quickly). -
I imagine this could be taken much further in DU than in E:D.
Naming stars / solar systems?
Naming planets and moons?
How about naming continents or oceans?
Or naming individual territory tiles?
Renaming them if you claim them?
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CCTV cameras and view screens! They can be used for all kinds of things like having different views from inside a multiplayer ship (including Star Trek style massive front view screen), or for surveillance of your territory and surrounding areas. Don't know how feasible it is, but thought I'd throw it out there.
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You will be able to install automated defenses that fire on trespassers, but I think there will also be an Eve style "reinforced" mode, to give you a chance to defend your stuff when you come back online. I just wrote a post about small groups protecting themselves in the wild in this thread: https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/486-killing-inside-tus-loss-of-items/
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Valid concerns, but I think you're missing some pieces of the puzzle.
I think your real concern is that small bases of operations for solo players and small organisations will be repeatedly destroyed by raiders, thieves, pirates, privateers, and other, larger groups of settlers. Let me just say first of all that I don't think your solution would help in that regard, first because it is not losing inventory that is the problem, it is losing buildings, and second because solo players and small groups are much less likely to claim territory, partly because TU's are rare and expensive, partly because there will be little need to.
So the answer to the problem of small groups getting bullied back into safe territory is to give them the tools to protect themselves. "Protection" can come in many forms and a lot of it is built in to the game world. For example, the game universe is massive and varied. Small groups can travel far into the unknown and set up camp at a location where others are unlikely to find them. They can choose a location that is hidden away such that passers by could come close without even noticing there is a settlement there. Or choose a location that has great natural defenses and set up automated weaponry and shielding that fires at anyone who comes within range and doesn't have the correct tags (see the rights and duties blog for more on this). But there are other options too. You could ally yourself with other small groups and form a defensive pact. Or just ally yourselves with a military organisation who do nothing but PvP, but fight for "good", protecting the weak, etc. Or, hire mercenaries on a case by case basis, whenever trouble comes along. Or use diplomacy and come to an agreement with the local bullies (read: protection money). Or you can use some combination of two or more of all of those ideas. The possibilities go on, and there are far more than I can think of here.
However, even with all of that there will be great losses in the game. Without great losses there can be no great victories, no great stories; no cycle of creation/construction/destruction/reconstruction.
Check out this devblog that discusses PvP, it gives a good indication of where NQ are coming from. https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/09/13/arkship-security-or-where-does-pvp-starts/
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I don't think it makes any sense for you to retain items that were on your person when you died - they should drop where you died so they can be looted.
The way I see it territory claim units are just enablers for the tagging system and gloating rights, and should grant no military or economic advantages beyond that. If you are out in the wild - and yes that includes your claimed territory - you need to have the means to defend yourself against raiders. This enables a whole bunch of gameplay opportunities. Hard-coding protections just takes away those job opportunities on both sides of the coin.
Aside from that though, if your organisation's claimed territory is under attack, why are you carrying around vulnerable stuff instead of leaving it in a more secure area that the attackers haven't breached yet? If there are no secure areas remaining, then you should have evacuated your valuables before the battle (there is an invulnerability period like the reinforcement mode in Eve Online). If you were caught completely by surprise, this is a deeper failing. Your organisation should have automated defenses and warning systems in place. If you haven't even set up any kind of defense such that you are able to stop what you are doing, leave valuables in a secure area, and re-equip yourself for battle, then you are going to lose your territory anyway.Also: what will stop big organisations from dominating the game?I think you are saying that this is inevitable but I don't think it has to be. It is undoubtedly a tough task to ensure that the game remains dynamic and open for all sizes of player organisations to be relevant and powerful. I started a thread a while back with my thoughts on the matter and Nyz was generous enough to reply https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/281-diversity-of-battles-and-wars/ I think this is an area that needs a lot of discussion.There is an early devblog where NQ talks about their vision for the game and how they want to ensure that essentially, no one ever "wins" the game. Easier said than done but it is good to know that the devs have had this in mind for at least two years already. Quote:"If some player or group of players become too powerful, there must always be a way for other players to counter them. You expect the balance to adjust by itself, a bit like the famous “invisible hand of the market”. This is very difficult to achieve however, and we will need our community in early alpha access to fine tune a lot of things." -
Are you saying you wouldn't want to lose the things you were carrying when killed?
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https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/42-hello-anyone/?hl=hazeron
True, there is a part of the gameplay that look similar, but also many differences between the two projects.
- Shores of Hazeron has a simcity-like aspect that Dual Universe hasn't: When you build a city in Dual Universe, it will be the help of your friends, and your friends alone will inhabit it. There won't be any NPCs citizens spawning automatically (though you will be able to craft mechanical helpers for automatized and/or industrial tasks). Seeing each player becoming a mayor, governor or emperor is not in the Dual Universe game vision. There will certainly be emperors, but there will be very few: only players who manage to gather around them a huge amount of friends will be considered as "emperors". This won't be a status you will be able to have from the start, or even in the first months of play.
- As Dual Universe is voxel-based, it will enable the player to build a spaceship (or a base) from scratch in a more intuitive manner while offering a lot more possibilities to shape the construction. This will be the "Minecrafty" part and it won't count as a small part of the gameplay
- There will be a territory system that will impact a lot on where you can build/install your base. A bit like Sov System from EvE Online but on a planetary scale (where EvE is on a solar system scale).
- There is a lot more gameplay features we can't communicate on right now, because it's too early.
But the truth is: Minecraft and EvE Online have been the two main inspirational models.
We try to get the best of the two in Dual Universe.
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As far as I know there's no solid information about how resources will be replenished. I could have sworn there was something out there from very early on about over exploiting a planet's resources and turning it into a barren wasteland, even to the point of destroying the atmosphere, but i can't find it now. In fact there's a thread about terraforming where Nyzaltar says it's not planned but maybe for a distant stretch goal, so it's quite possible i imagined it
From one perspective I think it would be best to have resources that deplete in one area, respawn in another, though how that would work I don't know. To avoid ruining explorers' efforts and maps, respawns would have to be in previously unvisited areas. Keeping resource locations dynamic in this way keeps the territory claiming game interesting and avoids turtling problems.
On the other hand, having some kind of materials cycle might be a more immersive way to do it. So raw resources are finite and can be depleted as in my last example, but where they respawn is determined by where they are used and destroyed. So the activities that take place on given sections of land or space have an effect on the voxels in that area. So for example, if there is a huge battle on the ground in a certain area, and tons and tons of vehicles/players/buildings/etc are destroyed there, the raw materials that those destroyed units are made of will seep into the ground and become minable. A certain amount of randomisation should be involved in this process - how deep underground and how far away from the actual site of the destruction the raw materials respawn. In this manner every voxel of raw materials would undergo a cycle - mined, processed (if less than 100% efficiency, the lost units respawn somewhere in the vicinity), used to build an element or construct (see previous about inefficiencies), element/construct destroyed and despawned, raw materials respawns somewhere in the vicinity.
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Or if they intend to be extremely clever and provide the basic functionality but leave it all in a unready state. make us assemble the pieces of a puzzle to get over each stage.
Make us literally research things through script development, tinkering, exploring, trial and error with fuel types, ect ect to get whatever it is that will work.
Now that would be very clever of them indeed.
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This is the only thing I've ever read about seas. From the multiplayer ship crew blog:
Concerning the different types of vehicles:We currently plan spaceships and Hovering technologies for Land vehicles, and Reactor technologies for Air vehicles. We are also thinking about sea and submarine vehicles, but this won’t be available at the beginning. It will probably be an addition in the coming crowdfunding campaign -
That's a really really old thread, and I would much more like to have the conversation remain in here because anything said in there could be completely incorrect and just leave to incorrect assumptions.
But worth a read nontheless, some of the idea in it i agree and disagree with.
Like the RN's having charges and if you die to many times you end up back at the arkship... no.. just.. no... if i'm on the outskirts of the universe exploring and get bounty hunted all the way back to the arkship (meaning i've lost my ship and anything i build till i get back there)... it would make me want to quit...
Think of how big a infinite universe can be, and how far away you could get from your base if you respawn at an arkship after being bounty hunted... that's a sure-fire way to p**s off a person to the point of not coming back...
You should check out the blog on resurrection nodes. I'm pretty sure that is exactly how they will work. The only ideas in that thread about resurrection nodes were to do with how much inventory is lost when you die.
https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/10/10/resurrection-node-mechanics/
Only a handful of devblogs have been released since that thread and nothing that invalidates the ideas.
I think smuggling will be enabled by the tagging and ownership systems. If a territory holding player organisation decides to outlaw a particular item or set of items in their territory then that opens up smuggling. The question is whether there will be valid reasons for organisations wanting to outlaw stuff.
Piracy will of course be possible in some form or another no matter what, but as nora says the tools provided will shape what is possible.
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That might be an interesting way to open up new starting planets, provided they are sufficiently far away from any previously explored / colonised areas.
Incidentally, I just found a quote from Nyzaltar from last summer.
Technology will evolve as the game evolves
I can't say much about the Lore for now as there is a short story on it in the pipeline coming soon (before end of summer we hope!)
Let's just say that there will be a - temporary - technological regression at the beginning (there will be an explanation for that).
So no FTL drive available right from the start. But on the long term, yes, there will be but with heavy limitation, involving "stargates" (something that players will be able to build). However, to be able able to "warp" without stargates, if allowed, will be very very tricky, and limited in some other ways.
Best regards,
Nyzaltar
Several characters in the game
in The Gameplay Mechanics Assembly
Posted
Some interesting ideas there. Just a couple of balance points.
First I definitely think RNs should be involved transforming into an alias. You have to physically go to the RN and select the alias you want to come out as. Two reasons for this. One is to prevent being in two places at once and hence being able to teleport between locations by switching aliases. Another is that it adds to the difficulty in keeping your cover - if you're under suspicion you have to be very careful not to get caught always heading back to our coming back from your RN. Combined with making sure you're on top of your tagging using the system Saffi describes, these difficulties could make it so that no hard counters to this alter-ego system are required.
Second, aliases should have none of the skills trained by the main character, but can train their own skills. However you can only gain skills for one character at a time. This ensures spies don't get double training.