Dygz_Briarthorn

I think what the devs have said is that the Alpha Team is awakened first and for Alpha and Beta projected into a virtual sim on the Arkship as it preps to settle on Alioth. So, the pre-Launch planet should not be accessible for us to discover in the meat space of the DU setting. But, I wouldn't be surprised to have some of the ruins we do discover on random planets be constructs created by pre-Launch players in addition to devs.

"Nothing" will be relative. We can expect the Alpha Team members to have at least a couple days headstart prior to launch in any case. Also, we will have to see what blueprints are available as starter blueprints for newbies at launch. Some of which could be blueprints designed by the Alpha Team during Alpha and Beta. Some current members of the Alpha Team are highly skilled voxelmancers who designed starter templates that are available for all players in Landmark. We'll have to see what voxel engineers create during Alpha and Beta... and how the devs respond to those creations. We are awaking with blueprints already in our nano-tools. Some of those blueprints may be personal blueprints Alpha Team members designed while awakened early in the virtual sim - as part of the reason the Alpha Team was awakened during the virtual sim. Immediately at launch, we can expect that there will be no player constructs near the Arkship. But, it's likely that members of the Alpha Team will quickly begin establishing a city using the blueprints from their nanoformers. Alpha Team members will still likely have to actually gather the necessary resources and to craft the constructs and even to build the machines required to refine and fabricate the materials for buildings. Alpha Team members will still very likely have to re-learn the necessary skills to create the various materials. We can expect a wipe of skills and resources and inventory. But, it's probably likely that Alpha Team members will be keeping some of their blueprints if there are no tech constraints preventing the devs from allowing that. Alpha Team members (anyone playing during Beta, too) are going to have an "advantage" anyways. It's very likely that the Alpha Team members will have a couple days headstart which allows them to establish and "own" territories before players who first start playing at launch anyways. It's unlikely that allowing Alpha Team members to keep their Alpha and Beta blueprints are going to provide a significant advantage with regard to who owns what at launch. The greatest advantage will be the months of experience members of organizations have working together to establish territories, find resources, upgrade and synergize skill trees and script Lua. Maintaining pre-launch blueprints is mostly about cosmetics and aesthetics. We should be able to build a city of dirt and rock skyscrapers within an hour and even attach functioning doors from basic Elements. Advantage of ownership at Launch is going to be about who first establishes territories where; not about the blueprints people use to build constructs in those territories. We can expect that there will be Alpha Team members devoted to establishing a city as quickly as possible with whatever basic skills, resources and materials will be available. The appearances of the buildings are not going to provide an advantage. In Landmark, we still had to acquire the necessary resources to create a building - having a blueprint just saves design time. Unless you're creating a building from dirt or rock or ice, you still have to upgrade your tools to be able to harvest and refine the necessary materials. In No Man's Sky, having a blueprint doesn't mean you can instantly craft an upgrade or power an upgrade. You still have to harvest or craft the required materials - you might not have all the blueprints required to power your hyperdrive even if you have the blueprint to craft a hyperdrive. Retaining a personal blueprint doesn't really provide an advantage. It just means you don't have to spend days redesigning the intricate details of a carved skull or a voxel space dragon sculpture. It could theoretically still take days or weeks to gather all the materials and skills required to place your pre-launch blueprint in the world - if your blueprint is made with uncommon or rare resources. Resources, inventory, skills and territories all trump blueprints... and resources, inventory, skills and territories will almost certainly be wiped between Alpha and Beta. It's very likely that resources, inventory, skills and territories will be wiped between Beta and Launch because the lore has everything we gather and construct before Launch transporting in a virtual sim. But, the lore also supports the blueprints we design in the virtual sim being retained for our nanoformers via the AI. And the lore supports designing blueprints in the virtual sim to aid people as they exit the Ark as one of the primary reasons the Alpha Team is awakened early.

Yep. Landmark had wipes, too. So, we can certainly expect wipes of constructs and inventory. Wipes for blueprints is still being evaluated - from what I understand. What has to be seen is whether blueprints provide a significantly greater advantage with regards to time than the intrinsic advantage garnered by months of experience using the building tools. Again, the philosophical decision is going to revolve around the experience the devs want players to have when they first walk off the Arkship. Do the devs want the players to feel competitive about establishing the foundation city? If so, advantage is an important concern. Do the devs want the players to feel inspired by what players can accomplish with the building tools? If so, advantage isn't really a concern. Determining factor philosophically will be whether the Alpha Team is primarily competitive or primarily cooperative. Where Alpha Team members are sharing their blueprints for free, there is no advantage. We'll have to see how common it is for Alpha Team members to share their blueprints for free.

This is Dual Universe, so we will have to see what the devs actually do. Even if the devs would like for us to use our blueprints from Alpha after launch that doesn't mean they wouldn't discover that they're forced to wipe them due to changes in the code. We have a lot of that language being used already - "we would like to do this, but we don't know yet if that will be possible." I've followed the ambitious game EQNext: it's vaporware. I've followed the ambitious game Revival: it's vaporware. So, where people say things like, "I just want everyone to be sure about what they are signing up for before they join alpha and start to give the game and start to give the game a bad name when it's not what they expected." Yes, my response is that I'm highly skeptical that this ambitious game will even make it to Alpha, let alone be released. That Dual Universe will be vaporware is among my expectations - even though I will very likely back the Kickstarter anyway. I'm currently playing (and loving) No Man's Sky. No Man's Sky does not come with all of the features promised even a month before launch - like multiplayer. I've worked on games where the producer has continued to promise all kinds of features or even release right up until the week that the team is told the game is cancelled. So, I am very, very skeptical that the NovaQuark devs can deliver what they hope to deliver. But, I'm backing Dual Universe rather than Star Citizen or Crowfall because DU has a game design that I would like to play. My desire to play that design is not contingent upon Alpha Team players having access to their Alpha blueprints. I've worked as a game dev for over 10 years. You've probably played some of the franchises I've worked on. There should be nothing offensive about the general potential for a game to become vaporware - that's the intrinsic nature of the business. But, specifically, if the devs can't get making blueprints to work for Alpha when they already have building constructs that can fly in pre-alpha, then these devs don't have the chops to finish this game in a state that anyone would want to play. What I'm really saying there is that these dev are not going to give access to an Alpha where players can't make blueprints. The chances of that happening is less than 0%. Not impossible, but less than 0%. And if tit's not possible to create blueprints by Alpha, you should be deeply, deeply concerned about the devs' ability to release this game in a state that is better than Landmark or No Man's Sky. Dual Universe is not Landmark and it is not Minecraft. But the types of players who play voxel games do not necesarily have the same motivations and mindsets as competitive gamers who play non-voxel games. Lots of builders don't care about who "owns" blueprints or how "owning" blueprints will affect the economy. Lots of builders in voxel games are willing to share their blueprints for free - even when it's possible for them to make real life money from their blueprints. Just because that was true in Landmark doesn't mean that will be true in Dual Universe because the DU community may have considerably more hardcore, competitive gamers than casual, cooperative builders. But we have quite a decent representation of Landmark Founders/players on the Alpha Team for Dual Universe, so there is a pretty good chance that we'll see that swap meets and sharing blueprints for free will be more common than gamers holding on to blueprints in order to have an advantage over other players. No Man's Sky has 4 primary pillars: Explore; Trade; Fight; Survive Dual Universe is not No Man's Sky. But, it's pretty clear that the players who love No Man's Sky are Explorers. Gamers hoping for robust trade, combat or survival mechanics are going to be disappointed in No Man's Sky. Gamers who just want to beat the game as quickly and efficiently as possible are going to be disappointed in No Man's Sky. Explorers who want to run around looking at the variety of scenery the game procedurally generates and catalog the various types of lifeforms and who wish to decipher the alien languages and uncover the mystery of how to activate the Portals will have blast. We're not 20 years in the past, where the vast majority of people who play video games were hardcore, competitive gamers. What we learn from the Bartle test is that not all players have the same motivations - there's a variety of player types: Killer/Achiever/Socializer/Explorer Achiever/Explorer/Killer/Socializer Socializer/Killer/Explorer/Achiever Explorer/Socializer/Achiever/Killer The Bartle test was primarily designed for RPGs and includes MMORPGs. With voxel games, we can add Builder as a player type. Builders do not necessarily relate to voxel games in the same manner that players who love games like EvE or ArchAge or Star Citizen do. They don't necessarily have the same motivations or goals or interests or priorities. What we learn from games like Landmark and Minecraft is that lots of builders just want to be able to build constructs and show off those constructs. Lots of builders are willing to share their blueprints for free and don't care about how that effects "the economy". Lots of builders have no desire to have an advantage over other players - because they are casual, cooperative players rather than hardcore, competitive gamers. So, while Dual Universe is not Landmark and it is not Minecraft - it is a voxel game rather than an FPS or even a non-voxel MMORPG, like WoW or EQ. Yes, if the majority of the DU Alpha Team is comprised of gamers who are primarily Killer/Achievers or Achiever/Killers who will strive to maximize advantages over other players, who owns pre-Launch blueprints will be enough of a concern that pre-Launch blueprints will probably be wiped - due to the unfair advantages the Alpha Team would have on those whose first opportunity to play is Launch. Regardless of whether the code is in good enough shape that the devs aren't forced to wipe Alpha blueprints due to tech constraints. But, if the majority of the DU Alpha Team are Builder/Socializers or Socializer/Builders, the devs may indeed strive to allow us to keep Alpha blueprints if it's possible. Dual Universe is Dual Universe. Dual Universe is not Landmark. Even if the devs philosophically want to keep Alpha blueprints available for the Alpha Team after launch, that doesn't mean tech constraints won't prevent them allowing that. Nor does it mean that the behavior of the Alpha Team won't cause them to decide the actual playerbase is so competitive that allowing the Alpha Team access to their blueprints after launch will be too much of a detriment to the economy. The devs might start by saying, "We hope that the Alpha Team will be able to use their Alpha blueprints after Launch," and then discover that for various reasons they do actually have to wipe all pre-Launch blueprints. It may be that instead of allowing players to keep their Alpha blueprints the devs turn some of the Alpha blueprints into starter Elements that are free for all players to use - like the starter templates in Landmark. We don't know what will happen. And really we can't know, unless the dev philosophy is already absolutely against retaining Alpha blueprints. IIRC, they aren't absolutely against it, rather they are still evaluating the potential impact. I'm an Explorer/Socializer. On the Bartle score, my Killer rating is 0%. Despite being a founding member of the Coalition of Pirates and Smugglers, I'm a cooperative carebear who gives stuff away for free. I am not a good enough voxelmancer to be a Builder. But, I want the members of the Alpha Team to be able to share their pre-Launch blueprints with all players for free because that helps build community - as seen by the swap meets in Landmark. And because it means that new players at Launch will instantly be able to see the phenomenal constructs non-professional players can craft as sooon as they walk off the Arkship. That's not about ownership or advantage. I am not competitive. I couldn't care less about ownership, advantage or the economy. I care most about having immersive environments as the foundation for great storytelling and having mechanics that profoundly support robust roles for players to play. When players step of the Arkship, I want them to think, "Wow - those buildings were created by players?? Not the devs??!! I could potentially create something like that?? I gotta explore that building and learn how to create something similar." My hope is that we have enough Explorers, Socializers and Builders playing DU such that the general case when people walk off the Arkship is not, "Wow - those buildings are owned by players?? Not the devs?? I could potentially own something like that? I gotta learn how to exploit the features in this game so I can gain advantage over other players." I hope the Alpha Team is "better" than that.

Why, yes, I would love to smuggle minors at an unbeatable price!! Where can you be reached?

1: That's like saying devs for an FPS won't want people in Alpha to keep fighting. The Alpha Team will be "designing blueprints" constantly because that is a core pillar of gameplay. 2: Really has nothing to do with having an advantage over other players. If the devs conclude it provides unfair advantage, Alpha and Beta blueprints will be wiped. 3: Large constructs can't really be built again from scratch - unless the builder has meticulously kept notes on the minute details of the construct. This is especially true for the voxelmancy of intricate designs. The only real advantage there is experience honing voxelmancy techniques. 4: If we have voxel engineers pushing the envelope and shocking the devs with the ingenuity of their designs - as occurred during Landmark- we can expect the devs to strive to keep those designs available in the form of blueprints after launch. We may even have players designing some of the constructs tyhe devs make available as starter Elements for newbies - as occurred in Landmark. We'll see.

1: Some of us were conscripted onto the Alpha Team. Most likely because the devs feel we are already dedicated to helping them improve the game, rather than solely being interested in gaining unfair advantage over subsequent players or merely having fun playing early. 2: Many of us on the Alpha Team have prior experience with this kind of development from Landmark. And we're probably more skeptical than most about what we're getting ourselves into - especially when contemplating spending money for "early access" or Kickstarter. 3: You state how much of the game is even going to be ready at launch is unknown. That's not quite true. We've seen that designing and building constructs is already possible now, during pre-Alpha. The voxel manipulation we've seen means that players can design and construct buildings even without the addition of Elements. If turning those constructs into blueprints won't be possible by Alpha, this game is doomed to be vaporware. 4: A lot of the difficult stuff -like vast numbers of players in one location on a single shard- has already been tested, but could stand to use more rigorous testing. Turning constructs into blueprints is pretty simple - it's not particularly innovative. That tech has already been around for several years now. Will the devs provide us with newbie Constructs, like a basic hut/shelter, for Alpha? Perhaps not. But, there's really no way the devs are going to open Alpha without the ability to turn constructs into blueprints. 5: All of the above really has nothing to do with your actually concerns about carrying blueprints from Alpha through Launch, though. a: It seems unlikely that we will be allowed to keep blueprints for ships that would take us off-planet. The devs seem to want us to be planet-bound for at least a couple of weeks after launch. b: I expect that the devs will be interested in helping players maintain the blueprints for the buildings they construct. And I would not be surprised to see encouragement from the devs and community managers for voxel engineers to push their creative visions by showcasing the best constructs and maintaining those blueprints. c: It may be that the devs conclude they will have to wipe blueprints during alpha and/or beta. There was always that possibility in Landmark, too. We'll have to see what the specific challenges are for Dual Universe, but... d: In Landmark, we were able to keep Alpha blueprints through Launch. I expect the NovaQuark devs will endeavor for the same to be possible for Dual Universe. Apparently, they've stated they are contemplating supporting that. e: We will just have to wait to see what actually happens. Just as we will have to wait to see if DU is anything more than vaporware.

Um. Alpha is about helping NovaQuark improve the game. As stated in the quote you included above. Improving the game is not just about finding bugs. What you are saying is that Alpha is not about "having fun". Alpha is not about garnering an advantage over those who first start playing after launch. We agree on that. In my view, maintaining blueprints for building and city design from Alpha through Beta and launch improves these types of games. Similar to the Alpha and Beta designs worked on in Landmark. That's different from "just wanting to play the game early". So, actually, I am thinking of and referring to maintaining the blueprints designed during Alpha and Beta through launch. Specifically. As was the case during Landmark. Who owns the cities will be determined by who establishes the territories and how they set the permissions; not so much by the blueprints of the constructs that are built in those territories. You seem to have an assumption that the general case will be that Alpha players who have access to Alpha and Beta blueprints after launch will want to exploit an advantage over the economy. It's true that my assumption is that the general case will be more like Landmark, where the general case was that people in the Alpha and Beta community freely shared their blueprints with other players. I think that's likely because there are quite a few of us on the Alpha Team from Landmark. Again, the NovaQuark devs can keep an eye out to determine how the DU Alpha Team behaves in general and decide whether they conclude that maintaining blueprints through launch will negatively impact the economy. Negative impact on the economy is not an inherent result though. No.

You are free to keep your convictions. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just pointing out how delusional you are.

I have nothing to prove. You are just making stuff up again. You're the one who isn't stopping. I'm happy to continue to post here. You're the one who stated you stopped the thread.

I'm a hippie, socialist so I don't think in terms of ownership. In Landmark, we had swap meets where other players could come and copy blueprints they liked for free. So, for me, it's not about owning markets and monopolizing "the economy". For me, it's just about quickly establishing a sci-fi city. That's something the devs can keep an eye on, though. To see what the Alpha community is like and whether "owning" Alpha blueprints at launch is likely to result in the Alpha dominating the economy with an unfair advantage. We can't assume the DU community will be as altruistic as the Landmark community. True. (Although, there are quite a few of us Landmark Founders here who are part of the Alpha Team)

1: You're the one who started the attacks by posting fabricated, unreasonable, unwarranted and unjustified "suspicions". 2: Garbage in; garbage out. You reap what you sow. Those are two of the morals of the story here.

BOO isn't really about trying to field a bunch of players together at any given time. BOO isn't an army. Some people are being way too competitive about the numbers of people in an org. Play with the people you like to play with. Doesn't matter whether that's 25 players or 100 players.

Making blueprints will be part of Alpha gameplay. Dual Universe Alpha is not really about finding bugs for closed beta. It's more about the community helping to develop the game - which encompasses more than simply finding bugs. In my view, keeping Alpha blueprints is mostly about quickly establishing a city for newbies at launch. Which also helps "make the game playable". I don't think we would keep ship blueprints, since the devs want it to take a while for us to get off-planet.

We kept templates/blueprints in Landmark after wipes - we had to re-acquire the resources and rebuild... we didn't have to redesign everything from scratch. But, we'll have to see if that's possible with DU.

I think the better question is will we be able to keep our blueprints from Alpha. I expect the goal will be for us to keep them. We might also need to have the capability of keeping city layouts as some form of blueprint.

PvPers whine about mechanics that nerf and limit their abilities to grief. Whiners never change. NovaQuark wants balance. So, they're designing mechanics to support safe zones as well as direct PvP combat. Expect whining from both ends of the spectrum.

You are just plain paranoid and delusional. I'm sure you see dead people, too. 1: The game hasn't even started yet and you're already paranoid about how an org will behave just because the use the word "pirate". 2: Your obsession with the need to control a large group is all in your head. People obsessed with order and rules might be compelled to grief in order to control, but not everyone is obsessed with order, rules and laws. 3: I think you spend more time fabricating your own warped reality than Cybrex spends holding interviews with prospective members. RELAX. It's just a game. And, really, it's not even a game, yet!

Having played Landmark, I much prefer the multi-tool of No Man's Sky over the picks and axes of landmark. I also love the way we upgrade devices in No Man's Sky - crafting and adding different components to fine-tune for specific tasks. (Synergy bonuses are also great!) Coordinating that with specific elements and skills would be awesome.

Pretty sure that Aphelia is intended to act as a tutorial. The Alpha Team will be acting as a model. Not quite the same as a tutorial, but, the Alpha Team will be working out how to build cities and how to guide newbies into guided gameplay. Organizations should want newbies to help complete specific objectives. I suppose the challenge for the devs will be designing kills in such a fashion that newbie skills retain value.

Free spaceship for membership in an organization seems odd to me. That just provides opportunity and incentive to strike out on your own. A spot on a multi-crew ship seems like the better way to go. And reinforces playing an active role in the organization. But, we'll see what emerges.

I consider Dual Universe to be the multiplayer side of the coin of No Man's Sky. I think No Man's Sky highlights some examples of the initial gameplay we can expect from Dual Universe. Upon disembarking from the Ark ship, we will want to begin gathering resources and acquiring blueprints to begin building shelters and, eventually, ships. We can expect to strive to refine the available resources in order to upgrade the shelters and ships. There will also likely be some survival aspects to gameplay - surviving in the environment outside of the 20KM safe zone. What I'm more curious about with regard to Arkship vicinity is terrain destruction - how will we balance that vs constructing a village or city? In lieu of the types of buildings that are available in NMS, what types of buildings will we need to construct in DU to amplify communications or scan for resources? Where will we build hangars for ships or landing pads for ships? How will we plan city layout?

I'll be focused on discovering, activating and maintaining new safe zones.

That really depends on the motivations of the pirates. Not all pirates are the same. Different pirates will have different goals and motivations. There will very likely be sets of pirates with whom it's possible to negotiate - derailing them via diplomacy rather than via punishment. "Destroyers" is really a subjective view. In Star Wars, aren't the Rebels/Pirates destroyers? Or is the Empire the destroyers?

It's not really possible to play DU by yourself. Traditional MMOs basically have two options for adventuring - soloing or grouping. If you're not in a group, you are solo. That does not mea solo players are not interacting with other players. All it means is that solo players are not joining formal groups to kill stuff. Soloing means not having to wait on or depend upon other players in order to have fun. That's not the same thing as being anti-social. Soloers can be social without joining a formal group - and often are social despite not relying on a formal group to defeat challenges/quests. Killers looking for hardcore challenge are likely to want to group. Explorers looking for casual challenge are likely going to want to solo. I'm an Explorer who loves to recon solo. That doesn't mean other players can't benefit from the info I uncover. Doesn't mean I'm unwilling to share wealth or info with other players. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy talking with other players or healing other players or augmenting other players. What it does mean is that I don't want to be stuck waiting on the whims of other players. When I'm ready to explore, I want to be able to head out and explore. I don't want to have to wait for compatible players to log on and be available to adventure with me - the way I like to adventure. My Bartle score has a 0% Killer rating. I'm a pacifist. I will avoid killing if I can. I love playing the carebear challenge of reaching max level without killing anything. My goal in a dungeon is to visit every nook and cranny. I couldn't care less about killing the boss. In most cases, I'm not really interested in killing the boss. But, that's really a failure of the designers. There are ways to entice me to wantonly kill - but it's rare that designers are able to provide those motivations. Frequently, I've found myself in groups that are primarily Killers who aren't interested in exploring every nook and cranny of a dungeon - what they care about is efficiently killing everything in the dungeon without wiping. I don't particularly care if we wipe. Because I'm not a competitive player. So, I typically solo. In NWO, I mostly duoed. But, our duo also dumped our surplus loot in the guild bank. In Dual Universe, everything we do will affect other players indirectly, regardless of whether we group or solo. But, there will be all manner of ways for solo players to benefit other players - even if they never directly socialize with other players. And Dual Universe will also offer unique opportunities to feel like you're soloing while you're on a multi-crew ship. Among other similar opportunities. People need to look beyond the limited scope of early MMOs. If devs can actually deliver on the designs of games like EQNext, Revival, Dual Universe and, perhaps, Star Citizen, the concepts we're used to will be obsolete. But, so far, no one has actually delivered on that dream.