GrimReaper
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Posts posted by GrimReaper
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^ Ha, if there's someone who doesn't... they're crazy!
It seems like most people want it done right though, rather than rush them to alpha. So that's good
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They use quantum entanglement to save the players in-game from death via the Res-Node technology. We download from the Arkship with the implants via the same tech. The markets across the game are interconnected (if the owner chooses to interconnect the markets) via quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement = faster than light transmission of information (not yet pinned down totally in our own world, but in the context of the lore it is sound as tech). So yes, communications are isntateneous across the universe via quantum entanglement. And they can keep track of the currency across it regardless, since it's cryptocurrency. Hackers can't make more of it and NQ will be the one to keep track of it via the aforementioned Arkship Database & Cerebral Implant lore path.
And no, you can't teleport people with it, because it would make spaceships obsolete.
And as for "operational currency", that harkens back to the suggestion people (including myself) made of organisation-made currency. It's very difficult to have multiple currencies in the game.
And again, hacking to steal peoples' money in-game, if you stay close to them for a long time to maintain the hack, sure, that is emergent. Having cryptocurrency have a limit as of how much you can carry and forcing them to move siad money into a vault, is violating the principle of the cryptocurrency to begin with and printing space-money is way too primitive
.No one said anything about printing monies, just that you have a digital log of your operational currency on your person. In order to alleviate the communication problems that arise otherwise.
The whole quantum entanglement thing is a bit off topic, will create a separate discussion on that later. Quantum entanglement does not provide faster than light communication, it is impossible for there to be a particle change and then a communication. Unfortunately, I do have sources for such claims. Will provide them at a later date, when I create that discussion ^^
In short, my post will propose a few things since apparently, QE is currently set to impact: markets, currency, and the "death" mechanic.
1.) Markets - There should be a time dilation discrepancy between market A and market B. This would be based off of a simple equation that relates distance to communication time. A market terminal would receive updates based on the distance the other units are to the terminal. Hopefully this will be able to re-use the code that in place to update player data... if not, I imagine there will be some work involved.
2.) Currency - I pretty much went over all that in previous posts.
3.) Death - unfortunately, this creates a gap as to what they were planning. But perhaps something along the lines of: Emergency personnel recover your body, and bring you back to HQ to be repaired by some nano technology. Almost as unplausible as QE and QT... but, I will probably come up with something more definitive before I create the post ^^
Before you say that they can just use quantum teleportation... you would need one long ass fibre optic wire for that lol.
Edit:
I should clarify, I'm good with what they have at the moment... I don't really care if they falsify the extensions of QE and QT. However, I will give them an alternative... that creates a more interesting playthrough for traders and market predictions.
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The risk you talk about is the trader's incompetency, not inherent risk. A trader worth his salt will avoid those situations. Just like a combatant worth his salt will avoid unconquerable areas.
As for saying my "lore" is incorrect... communications aren't instantaneous over such large distances. The communication delay between mars and earth is somewhere near 21 minutes. Depending on the type, some communications can go down to 3 minutes I think. However, I imagine the communications would need to be secure. How then can the overall balance be tracked cross universe? As soon as you make a purchase on planet 1, it wouldn't update on planet 2.
Money is stable, operational costs are not. Your bounty, and your bounty issuer would be safe. The only risk implemented is for what you use in your daily operations. Your money is safeguarded on some planet, digitally. You have to transfer that onto a terminal on hand in order to use at another location.
If DACs drop, so should operational currency via hacking. Adding an entirely new level of emergent gameplay.
Edit:
Sorry for the apparent off topic discussion, but it seems to go hand in hand with DACs dropping. Considering DACs are practically a second set of currency, much more than any other commodity in game. Much like gold in the US during its infancy, and even in the current day.
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Well, both the industrialist and the trader require effort on their part, one with building a factory and managing it, and the other on building connections to get lower taxes, etcetera. That EFFORT is why the currency needs to be unlootable. Assets, as you put it, are a risk into this, industry or cargo, a ship or a DAC (that has been hoarded in a physical form by buying it off a person who bought it with IRL money). And as JC said, the game is indeed about risk and reward (Markeedragon interview on youtube). The risk is in the asset (items, constructs, etcetera) the reward is in the currency you built up along the way... only to turn into assets again, hence risk, which brings us back to my earlier statement of it being a checkpoint for a player's progress.
Skillpoints invested into Industry for example, mean nothing if you do not have the assets to utilise them, just like a pilot's skillpoints mean nothing if they have no ship to fly. Both require funds, funds that need to be unlootable, at least on a single avatar level, organisations should be requiring a "wallet" sorta unit to keep their money in. I rest my case at that.
And let's be real here, your organisation, you can trust to not kill you on sight, but others? How will a spacetrucker go to a foreign market to buy low and sell high, if the moment he exits the ship he is killed? That would be the nail to the coffin of hauling. See, there's a reason EVE doesn't allow for money to drop on death. It would kill the trade completely, let alone having no "checkpoints" for progression.
However, the possibility of an investment type of firm, that's acting like switzerland (technically a bank that invests your money efficiently to make more money), is not out of the question. That would be the reason to buy shares in a reputable investment firm a.k.a. traders of high skill to make your money increase while they get a cut of the profit. That, combined with the idea of having organisation "coffers" for the currency, would make said firms into banks, that players ACTUALLY have a good reason to keep as much money in them as possible, instead of the currency being lootable, therefore making the banks more of a neccessity, rather than a clever investment. And yes, I know, an investment firm would have to be RDMS'd for unanimous vote for disbanding or any decision and would require the RDMS to have a limit on how much money a broker can withdraw daily to keep playing the market, but it's not something that's out of reach. If I could do such thing in WoW, I bet it can be done in DUAL as well
You act like the moment you die, you lose all your money. That wouldn't be the case, as far as I'm concerned. The thing is, for traders... there is very little risk vs. rewards. They carry half the reward all the time, whereas industrialists carry the full risk all the time. Just saying they don't add up ^^
How I want things to be:
1.) You carry operational currency, tied to a digital account. The rest sits in a bank back home, or wherever... someplace safe. The lore behind this is that, how would you keep track of how much money someone has from planet to planet? That communication would not be instantaneous. This means the player needs to have something on board to determine their balance, and to reduce fraud.
2.) An intruder can break into the bridge, or wherever this device is kept, and attempt to break into the terminal that holds all of their operational currency. For small operations, this would rarely happen... I mean, the chances that a small ship gets blown to smithereens is high. Thus no chance of losing your precious operational currency. The lore behind this, every ship has something akin to a blackbox that keeps log of the terminal access. It would make note of no changes to operational balance.
3.) . If the terminal is in tact, the ship must be powered. Once the original player's signature is off of the ship, a countdown should begin that slowly powers down the ship. Leaving a relatively small window to steal the operational currency.
4.) . The crew should have a chance to turn off the terminal, however, it should take a certain amount of time to shutdown.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.
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Umm, just by going off of what you have given.
Trader's have:
1.) . Funds (cannot be stolen)
2.) Marketing knowledge (cannot be stolen)
3.) Inside knowledge (cannot be stolen)
Industrialists:
1.) Assets (can be taken by force)
2.) Blueprints (Usually can't be stolen, as they use them but if in commodity form they can be stolen right?)
3.) Material costs (can't really be stolen)
I would go one step further and add 4.) Commodities to each. For the trader, it is what they physically bring from point a to point b. Which can obviously be stolen. The industrialist has commodities that they produce, which can be taken by force along with the assets.
Now, with all this set on the table... being an industrialist is far more perilous than a trader. Most everything can be stolen, whereas trader's have very little risk. To be fair though, I don't see how any of this pertains to the question at hand. It really doesn't.
As for a kill all society, I don't think that is what would play out. I'm personally under the impression, that if it's like any other PvP MMO I've played... there will be coalitions of organizations out to protect eachother's interests. As for the lonewolf (like myself) they will keep their active currency at a bear minimum, while creating as much fortitude as they can with their active (stealable) currency. Trusting in safe storages to keep the rest secure.
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Agreed, for the most part.
However, from my perspective progress can be seen through the skills you have leveled. Which is directly related to how long you have been playing. Of course, assets (including currency) play into progression if you safeguard them. Having lootable currency would mean a player would be "forced" to use a bank or some safe storage while keeping just enough on them for their operations.
Perhaps, since the currency is indeed digital... an intruder could attempt to hack into your coffers somehow. Perhaps useable currency is linked to a digital account that can only be accessed through a terminal on your active ship. Or something of that matter. If the ship still had power, you could try and dig into that.
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Seems like you can just turn DACs into digital coupons ala digital currency in the game.
Weak argument is weak. I stand by my argument that if DACs are lost, so should currency.
I also understand the argument that hoarding DACs is a lot like hoarding a commodity, so I do see where you're coming from. Just don't think it warrants being lootable on death.
Ultimately, I don't see it being much of an issue either way. What's to stop someone from just hoarding their DACs in a safezone? Just don't see the point of lootable DACs is all ^^
- Ghoster and Archonious
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I imagine it will be the more traditional WWII planes in space. Would love to be surprised, but it seems like it would be just too much for them to do anything otherwise. I mean, if they have to settle on a lock and fire system, and a system where the further you out you are the less updates you get... I imagine they will have to make sacrifices in the flight model as well.
Like I said, would love to be wrong though
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Hi guys,
aren't you little concerned about NQ's radio silence after successful KS campaign?
I'm starting to wonder whether they actually counted on much larger hype about DU and much larger funding,
something a few steps closer to the huge success of Star Citizen's.
Right now the only info we have is that NQ is planning to launch another crowdfunding
outside of KS, which could support my hypothesis about the need to obtain second round
of funds for them to stay independent.
I myself supported the campaign, but right now I feel suprised and let down by this lack
of proper communication with the community.
Any thoughts?
They're only adding a secondary funding option because so many people were asking for it. It was not originally planned.
This is also probably why there is some silence, they're hard at working throwing together new packages whilst developing the game.
They had investors lined up if they were successful on the campaign IIRC.
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*shrug* My normal policy for safety is not to have my numbers floating around out there, so I use paypal. (Not gonna make a special trip to Walmart and waste time figuring out how prepaid cards work.)
If you can spend the time to figure out how purchasing bananas work, you can find time to purchase a prepaid card. Takes like 30 seconds ^^
Another good method is to have a separate account setup for online transactions, with far more anti-fraud measures in place. Transaction limits, daily limits, not even sure what's all available these days. Most banks are also very good at righting fraudulent purchases.
I can respect your decision, but I don't think it's a problem with KS at that point.
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I was very annoyed that I couldn't use Paypal for the KS. My debit card worked, but I prefer not to put that number out there.
Huh, I've never understood this viewpoint. You can just use a prepaid debit card, with the specified amount for the singular purchase. Purchase-able at your local Wal-Mart, or any store for that matter.
The only anti-KS I understand is from those who do not have cards supported by KS. I know a lot of people outside of the US have that problem. Although, I have to wonder if Visa, MC, and the lot offer prepaid cards in other countries, I've never tried to find out I guess.
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Just to be sure: Pluto is not a planet, it's a planetoid.
With a radius of only 100km, storing only changes, generate the planet with only math, updating far away/not seen players/constructs only once in a while I think it makes sense that it could work. But we will see in alpha how good this will be
Precisely, you can say it works fantastic... a perfect, flawless system. But the fact of the matter is there will probably be hiccups when they integrate everything to the live server. Wouldn't worry about it though.
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What about upgrade?
i have pledged Gold Founder Pack (early bird)...
i do wanted to pledge for Rudy Founder Pack (early bird)...
will this be possible????
Don't think so, early birds will not be available post-kickstarter.
There may be a ruby pack similar to that of the Kickstarter, but it will not be the price of the early bird.
I imagine there will be a few lifetime subs available, probably around how many were leftover from the KS. 30 backed at the 480 level, I think there were 400 available? 200? Can't remember. Plenty will be available, I imagine.
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The reason why I ignore him =) Just do the same
Thanks,
Archonious
Suppose so, slowly learning
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Yup, i also think the same.
I hope the server is good enough so all the players that eligible for the Alpha can access the game without any quota splitting or separation
Probably
Looks like Raven misunderstand about the Early Bird. this Early refers to Early Pledges with lower place instead of Early Alpha Access
I understand that there is a chance that in some cases the Developer need to limit the Alpha Access quota due to Server Capability.
And they pick the player based on "first come first served". If that happen, looks like i will be on the last Phase
But it's okay i guess, that is Still Alpha anyway
Precisely, it's just how it goes sometimes. Sorry for derailing your thread for a bit there
We will have to see how it's handled, perhaps they will be able to get everyone in the first time around.
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That "m8", good one. I bet it's what kids say these days in middle-school.
You are repeating yourself a lot, I bet it's because you watch too much Leafy.
Also, you use my line? Oh, that means... oh... I felt frustration for you, now I feel sorry. Not even pity. Poor thing... :/
... and why are you cussing lad? Are you mad? :|
You need to understand you can't be mad if you are wrong.
But then again... yeah, I should not be pushing you, you are the kind of person using my line against me and call me "m8"... I bet you got more serious problems than anger management. Puberty is a serious business after all.
Get better arguements.
Eh sorry, heritage was showing through there... took it out for ya though. Happy m8?
You can't even come up with a constructive argument. Your only argument is to come up with insults... strange isn't it? It's like your argument has no basis.
Also, the whole "you can't be mad if you are wrong" thing confuses me. You are wrong, but it also seems like you are mad... considering how personal you are taking this. It's kind of funny really ^^
Come back to me when you have a counterpoint.
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That's what many said, until I was proven right time and again :|
Pull your head out of the echochamber you are in.
Best backpedalling thing I've ever read.
The devs have said the first tests will be up for a few days at a time. This is why they didn't go into Steam, to avoid scrubs who would say :
"OMGZ, I paiz moneh, Y Iz servorz down?"
You seem to share this kind of mentality. Welcome to a real Alpha test, not an Early Access cashgrab.
Their server tech IS about dealing with server load. If they don't strain test it to calibrate, they won't be able to move on with their testings.
Get a grip, the test 1 is going to be on that particular aspect of the game, the MMO part, before they go into the RPG.
Just because they have a sporadic test, does not mean they won't limit the first test to a certain amount. It's a possibility, and I don't want people like you giving them flak if they have to take that route.
Just watch the video alright? It's okay to be wrong. They haven't forked over the cash yet to test the integration of their networking with the servers they will be working with. I briefly sped through the video, it's referenced around the 3 minute mark briefly. I think the video talks about it more elsewhere. Figured you needed handholding to find the source.
I swear I'm repeating myself.
I don't know if you're just dense... or...
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Having a sporadic Alpha and having a limited Alpha is not the same.
I'm covered either way on both accounts of the First Come First Served of the Kickstarter Alpha Access. And you will be too. There's a reason they had 1300 Alpha Access packages on the KS. And the number will probably pile up with the Paypal store to 2000 , AKA an average WoW size server rented across the cloud, which would serve very well for the testing of the Alpha until they got the server tech calibrated for a Beta Test of a massive scale. Funny enough, those servers are really not that much of a cost to rent.
I guess you were wrong all along. :|
Don't sweat it.
Peace.
I still don't see how you're right on either account. They haven't stated how they will go about releasing the alpha to the public. A sporadic alpha is where they release the alpha to a certain subset for a duration, and then more later. No? That doesn't mean they won't release it in tiers to control server load. Especially during the early days. It's a possibility, and I don't want people giving them flak if they have to go down that road.
And I was still right about the servers, reference the video.
You can tell yourself whatever you want though, we can pretend if you'd like?
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Kickstarter update. That's where they speak of the First Come / First Served as far as it goes with the Kickstarter and the name reservation.
They have only said that the Alpha test will be sporadic at first so they can stress test the server tech and the cloud hosting involved.
I was not referencing name reservations whatsoever, just that the alpha will probably be released in tiers. Perhaps on a first come first serve basis, ala the names... perhaps not.
As for the second point, I guess that's your way of saying you were wrong?
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The "First come first served" applies on the name reservation.
I am number 27, so I will be the 27th in regards of reserving my names ( I get two because gold founder).
It has nothing to do with keys.
Also... you do know their cloud server tech has been tested as of its function right? The real testing is on how many people it can support and how it can be tweaked to sustain more at a more leisurely rate of updates. It was the first thing they built for the game before even getting to the gameplay mechanics. Before they can test anything else, they will have to test massive player character concentration.
Err since when was the "first come first served" phrase reserved for a specific roll-out for names?
The phrase has nothing to do with the name reservations in this case.
You do realize they haven't tested the game servers whatsoever? They've tested virtual instances, but that has nothing to do with the servers and networking. Testing on real servers is costly, and they haven't forked over the cash for that yet, and probably won't until just before the alpha launches.
Source:
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However, with all that said... we can't rule out the "first come first served" deal that will probably occur on the initial alpha launch.
I imagine it will be a tiered roll-out for keys, first week 1,000 keys... second week another 1,000 etc.
Perhaps not, but considering they haven't worked with the cloud server or w/e to the capacity that they will need for the public availability.... it's a possibility.
Clarified:
There will only be one alpha, but release will probably be tiered if it's like any other similar indie launch I've been a part of. -
Agreed with Achronious, in game distances are completely arbitrary. 1,000 km in one game, may not seem like 1,000 km in another.
What I hope for:
I hope that firing distance is as far as the update syncs go, if that makes sense. So, until the construct is too far away to be updated regularly, you can shoot at it. I'm not sure how the lock-on system is going to work, and I have no idea if it's possible to miss a ship... but perhaps the projectiles can go even further than that point, it's just far, far less accurate. If possible of course, I'm not sure how the whole updating projectiles/constructs in relation to you work.
It's just too hard to tell right now. It's a very valid question, but we need more information to go off of ^^
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