Rocketman697

My sincere thanks to NQ for their efforts to make this game.  I think it has great potential, but wanted to give some candid feedback on my experience. 
 
I've been enjoying this game throughout the beta, mostly as a solo player who has focused on industry.  I was starting to recruit players into my org and also belong to another org.  I have a modest but capable factory (until now) where I have been making products such as lights, displays, doors, etc. and successfully selling them on the market.  I invested the profits into crafting ships and expanding my base.  I enjoyed the market and crafting very much until this update.  (https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/789842770884821022)
 
Now my factory is nearly useless.  I don't have enough talent points to access much of my industry and refineries, plus I would need to buy expensive schematics.  What am I supposed to do with a factory full of machines I can't access?  I can't earn credits other than mining, which is very tedious.  Without credits, fuel and materials, I can't build or fly ships or build bases and factories.
 
You haven't nudged me away from solo play (a direction I was already heading).  Instead you have pushed me off the cliff.  I tried to train using the talent points I had (a very tedious and obscure process) and ended up with a useless factory that I can't do anything with, ships I can't fly and nothing to do but mine.  I could join a large org, but my vision of building up a smaller org and recruiting players is dead.  I was very active in the market, now I can't make anything to sell.
 
I will not be playing DU anymore, at least until the gameplay changes in such a way that solo players/small orgs can have a path other than endless grinding in the mines.

My sincere thanks to NQ for their efforts to make this game.  I think it has great potential, but wanted to give some candid feedback on my experience. 
 
I've been enjoying this game throughout the beta, mostly as a solo player who has focused on industry.  I was starting to recruit players into my org and also belong to another org.  I have a modest but capable factory (until now) where I have been making products such as lights, displays, doors, etc. and successfully selling them on the market.  I invested the profits into crafting ships and expanding my base.  I enjoyed the market and crafting very much until this update.  (https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/789842770884821022)
 
Now my factory is nearly useless.  I don't have enough talent points to access much of my industry and refineries, plus I would need to buy expensive schematics.  What am I supposed to do with a factory full of machines I can't access?  I can't earn credits other than mining, which is very tedious.  Without credits, fuel and materials, I can't build or fly ships or build bases and factories.
 
You haven't nudged me away from solo play (a direction I was already heading).  Instead you have pushed me off the cliff.  I tried to train using the talent points I had (a very tedious and obscure process) and ended up with a useless factory that I can't do anything with, ships I can't fly and nothing to do but mine.  I could join a large org, but my vision of building up a smaller org and recruiting players is dead.  I was very active in the market, now I can't make anything to sell.
 
I will not be playing DU anymore, at least until the gameplay changes in such a way that solo players/small orgs can have a path other than endless grinding in the mines.

That argument is really old and frankly false. Yes, it is absolutely true that as a solo player you will not be able to achieve the same things a big group can and that is clearly fine. It is however not true that it is or should be a requirement that people group up to enjoy a game or be able to set reasonable goals. MMO games like EVE and WoW are good examples of this. For EVE I'd go as far as to say that some solo activities (like exploration and mission running) are vital to the progress for large groups in game be it through markets or by being the part of an organization which operates mostly alone and "under the radar". Playing solo does not mean you are or play alone, there is a massive difference between the two.
 
The problem in DU is not that though, the problem is that, while in themselves entirely understandable to happen in developing a complex game like DU,  due to the growing pains, mistakes, loopholes and exploits left unactioned by NQ they have allowed big orgs to pretty much control the game. If NQ would wipe the game, big orgs would still have an advantage and would still be able to grow and rebuild faster but at the same time the starting point of that would be equal to all. As the game progresses, the overall balance would be maintained and new players get a fair shot at growing into ruling the universe by forming groups and alliances which can and should challenge the existing ones and that is where the conflict and combat in the game should come from. And all the while solo players will find ways to enjoy themselves and contribute to the economy be it as an explorer or as a pirate (just to bring up two options).
 
Someone recently posted this and it's IMO very true; NQ has enabled and allowed big orgs to benefit from unbalanced mechanics and mistakes to build their empires. They now pretty much pull up the  ladder to that opportunity for the rest of the player base, including up and coming bigger organizations.

While I feel that NQ overall has not actually practiced this but IMO Entropy said it really well with regards to a wipe, much better than JC ever did; NQ wil always look for the options they have to repair damage caused by (using a general term) errors they make but will and should wipe if that is not possible while they are still in development towards release. Makes perfect sense to me but at the same time I feel that the 0.23 changes would be a good example of changes that culminate in a massive and unfair advantage due to accrued damage done leading up to the patch which really can't be fixed unless a wipe occurs.
 
 
NQ is turning the game into a grind for sure and that is not great. you're absolutely correct that many, myself included, are not looking for another job. NQ is losing sight of the need for a game to be fun in their drive to emulate RL economics and mechanics in agame.
 
 
I strongly disagree and aforementioned massively successful and long running MMOs have pretty much shown this to not be true at all. And DU is very far away still from being in a position to measure itself against these games, especially EVE which clearly is a massive source of ideas and inspiration for NQ. maybe in 4-5 years it can do that but not at this stage.. Relative to those, DU is pretty much a toddler at best even when it has the possibility to grow into a fierce competitor.
 
 

While I appreciate Naunet posting this, I hear JC talking in this post. And this is where you show us you do not actually understand your own game NQ.
 
I predicted that this "we heard you" would be a clever spin attempt on the unrest and feedback by not really changing anything and by not actually acknowledging NQ is working backwards. This is all about NQ's fear of losing their player base and they think that will happen because we get bored of the existing gameplay. Meanwhile several streamers have dropped DU from their schedules as their content pretty much dries up with these changes which make it impossible for them to build an interesting and fun experience for their viewership. The statistics do not lie and the count of DU streamers is generally low single digits with low triple number viewer counts and declining.
 
You heard nothing really NQ, you just decided that you did not explain yourself clear enough because you are right and everyone else just does not understand so you try again.. 
 
 
The ones playing in full autonomy are actually the ones who are the least impacted by these changes; the big orgs. They have stockpiled materials and mass produced components and elements prior to the0.23 rollout due to prior knowledge of the changes.
 
Big organisator have no need to use the markets. They are entirely self sufficient and inward looking and as such are a major part of why the economy does not start. Amongst other things, we saw that expensive elements were massively bought up as soon as the dev blog dropped (as in almost instantly) and  prior to this there was a sudden high demand for L cores with many bought up as well. We now know why. Small groups and solo players do not have a problem using markets if there is supply which really is not the case for many items. The reason is that the big orgs build their own stuff for themselves and may only drop stuff on the markets if they have surplus. Also if someone would start to sell items, they would generally get bought up en mass and put back on the market at higher prices or surplus would be put on the markets at prices which undercut by so much that the small guy's revenue stream pretty much dries up instantly.
 
Industry at scale is now pretty much the sole domain of the big orgs with deep pockets and the rest is left to pick up the scraps. orgs can and will not determine what is or is not on market and at what price. the changes as they are pretty much lock  out the rest as the initial investment is too much with the very limited resources to pay for them and at the same time resources now are pretty much used to buy stuff, not to build stuff.. Ore has become the actual currency in the game. And these latest changes will not make a difference there as te damage is already done.
 
It just feels like JC/NQ want to build a RL simulator and by pushing that idea, no matter what we bring to the table, problem is that a game first and foremost needs to be _FUN_ .. If I were into what JC wants to achieve I'd study economics and get a job to match. I do not need a second job really.
 
Overall I'd say you may have heard us NQ, but you failed to listen. You just think you are rights and everyone else is wrong. I've said it before, the industry changes are fine in itself but they should be put in after you facilitate the means to achieve building industry. Your attempt  at justification for the changes both misses the point and is quite contradictory to your intent. Here is how I believe this could work and maintain engagement for your player base:
 
Bring in means to make more money and get set up in game. Develop fun ways to go out and enjoy or create content, gaining assets in the process. Seed the _world_ with valuable items for the markets which will allow PLAYERS to trade with PLAYERS and not seed markets using bots. Create a need/desire to co operate by bringing engaging and challenging events to the game on a permanent basis. Create opportunity for the many smart and creative players by exposing data that drives content creation that aids the game.  
And more but these things have been brought up so many times by now it's clear NQ has no intention to consider anything but their own reality bubble vision which entirely originates form what JC wants and not what the players are actually doing, asking for, looking  for, talking about.
 
0.23 spans the cart  before the horse, it's actually a pretty cool cart but without the horse the players are left to pull it themselves which turns the game into a grind of massive proportions. Yes what is suggested above will create wealth for players and would make the existing (pre 0.23) game design not viable but guess what, it would create interest and engagement form the community and player base to the point  where (I absolutely believe) NQ would be able to bring in the 0.23 changes with a wipe as it is clear that it would not be long for us to rebuild with all the fun stuff to do in game.
 
I believe many are against a wipe because of the massive grind it would take to rebuild. I also believe that once the game shows the potential to rebuild quickly and grow into the changes 0.23 offers this becomes more of a challenge than a grind and that is where it becomes interesting. More people wil band together and co-operate, the massive benefits and advantages gained from exploits, loopholes and favors for some is cleared and the large orgs wil l still have a big but fair advantage due to their numbers..
 
Don't "hear" NQ, listen.. It's hard, I know, and it may mean you will have to (further) change your initial and current ideas but you will gain an important thing, a player base which is engaged and active, building tools, setting examples and co-operating in and outside of the game.. Just like I still hope you originally intended the game to be.
 
DU is too great a promise with too much potential to be stifled and eroded by a false sense of missing your vision, it's not doing that and your game now belongs to the players, you should cater to their needs and wants where you can while using your vision as a guide, not a rulebook.

I thought this game was about building a spaceship. Now... I can't even use the equipment I already made, and have to suffer at the mercy of what is amongst popular opinion? I have to do everything that major organizations want me to do? I want to... escape from real life, where I can't afford much of anything and live out my fantasy of building a ship... 100% solo with only scavenged materials. That flies both in space and in the atmosphere. So I can fly away from all of those who dominate and control others through money market manipulation. So I can prove that a single man can build a ship by himself... with his own two hands, just like an X-wing from Star Wars. I was actually able to live out that dream in this game... and somehow you took that away from me.
 
I can't solo craft a ship. I am forced into money market manipulation as a means to "build things" I can't use the equipment I already bought. There are hundreds of thousands of hours someone will spend just playing with your voxel editor, and you somehow think... that it won't last? The gameplay was already going to last years with just your building engine guys...

My sincere thanks to NQ for their efforts to make this game.  I think it has great potential, but wanted to give some candid feedback on my experience. 
 
I've been enjoying this game throughout the beta, mostly as a solo player who has focused on industry.  I was starting to recruit players into my org and also belong to another org.  I have a modest but capable factory (until now) where I have been making products such as lights, displays, doors, etc. and successfully selling them on the market.  I invested the profits into crafting ships and expanding my base.  I enjoyed the market and crafting very much until this update.  (https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/789842770884821022)
 
Now my factory is nearly useless.  I don't have enough talent points to access much of my industry and refineries, plus I would need to buy expensive schematics.  What am I supposed to do with a factory full of machines I can't access?  I can't earn credits other than mining, which is very tedious.  Without credits, fuel and materials, I can't build or fly ships or build bases and factories.
 
You haven't nudged me away from solo play (a direction I was already heading).  Instead you have pushed me off the cliff.  I tried to train using the talent points I had (a very tedious and obscure process) and ended up with a useless factory that I can't do anything with, ships I can't fly and nothing to do but mine.  I could join a large org, but my vision of building up a smaller org and recruiting players is dead.  I was very active in the market, now I can't make anything to sell.
 
I will not be playing DU anymore, at least until the gameplay changes in such a way that solo players/small orgs can have a path other than endless grinding in the mines.

My sincere thanks to NQ for their efforts to make this game.  I think it has great potential, but wanted to give some candid feedback on my experience. 
 
I've been enjoying this game throughout the beta, mostly as a solo player who has focused on industry.  I was starting to recruit players into my org and also belong to another org.  I have a modest but capable factory (until now) where I have been making products such as lights, displays, doors, etc. and successfully selling them on the market.  I invested the profits into crafting ships and expanding my base.  I enjoyed the market and crafting very much until this update.  (https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/789842770884821022)
 
Now my factory is nearly useless.  I don't have enough talent points to access much of my industry and refineries, plus I would need to buy expensive schematics.  What am I supposed to do with a factory full of machines I can't access?  I can't earn credits other than mining, which is very tedious.  Without credits, fuel and materials, I can't build or fly ships or build bases and factories.
 
You haven't nudged me away from solo play (a direction I was already heading).  Instead you have pushed me off the cliff.  I tried to train using the talent points I had (a very tedious and obscure process) and ended up with a useless factory that I can't do anything with, ships I can't fly and nothing to do but mine.  I could join a large org, but my vision of building up a smaller org and recruiting players is dead.  I was very active in the market, now I can't make anything to sell.
 
I will not be playing DU anymore, at least until the gameplay changes in such a way that solo players/small orgs can have a path other than endless grinding in the mines.

My sincere thanks to NQ for their efforts to make this game.  I think it has great potential, but wanted to give some candid feedback on my experience. 
 
I've been enjoying this game throughout the beta, mostly as a solo player who has focused on industry.  I was starting to recruit players into my org and also belong to another org.  I have a modest but capable factory (until now) where I have been making products such as lights, displays, doors, etc. and successfully selling them on the market.  I invested the profits into crafting ships and expanding my base.  I enjoyed the market and crafting very much until this update.  (https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/789842770884821022)
 
Now my factory is nearly useless.  I don't have enough talent points to access much of my industry and refineries, plus I would need to buy expensive schematics.  What am I supposed to do with a factory full of machines I can't access?  I can't earn credits other than mining, which is very tedious.  Without credits, fuel and materials, I can't build or fly ships or build bases and factories.
 
You haven't nudged me away from solo play (a direction I was already heading).  Instead you have pushed me off the cliff.  I tried to train using the talent points I had (a very tedious and obscure process) and ended up with a useless factory that I can't do anything with, ships I can't fly and nothing to do but mine.  I could join a large org, but my vision of building up a smaller org and recruiting players is dead.  I was very active in the market, now I can't make anything to sell.
 
I will not be playing DU anymore, at least until the gameplay changes in such a way that solo players/small orgs can have a path other than endless grinding in the mines.

My sincere thanks to NQ for their efforts to make this game.  I think it has great potential, but wanted to give some candid feedback on my experience. 
 
I've been enjoying this game throughout the beta, mostly as a solo player who has focused on industry.  I was starting to recruit players into my org and also belong to another org.  I have a modest but capable factory (until now) where I have been making products such as lights, displays, doors, etc. and successfully selling them on the market.  I invested the profits into crafting ships and expanding my base.  I enjoyed the market and crafting very much until this update.  (https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/789842770884821022)
 
Now my factory is nearly useless.  I don't have enough talent points to access much of my industry and refineries, plus I would need to buy expensive schematics.  What am I supposed to do with a factory full of machines I can't access?  I can't earn credits other than mining, which is very tedious.  Without credits, fuel and materials, I can't build or fly ships or build bases and factories.
 
You haven't nudged me away from solo play (a direction I was already heading).  Instead you have pushed me off the cliff.  I tried to train using the talent points I had (a very tedious and obscure process) and ended up with a useless factory that I can't do anything with, ships I can't fly and nothing to do but mine.  I could join a large org, but my vision of building up a smaller org and recruiting players is dead.  I was very active in the market, now I can't make anything to sell.
 
I will not be playing DU anymore, at least until the gameplay changes in such a way that solo players/small orgs can have a path other than endless grinding in the mines.