Novean-61657

Why, when the answers we get are as undependable as F! So is NQ having a Christmas party?

I suspect that everyone is currently too bussy with setting up their autominers to bother fixing their trade routes (missions), so income is gutted until people have their autominers in place (I suspect the weekend). Another week before the setup is running optimally, meanwhile, next week people will start to fix their trade routes and get their quanta income stream up and running again. People will be scanning and claiming for a while. After that the next landrush will happen with territories being abandoned. The issue isn't is that people won't have the quanta for that, but that they don't have the time for it for a while, too many changes at the same time that require player attention. I personally expect that after the first month of Demeter I'll have a 150-200 tile domain with quanta to spare (after paying all my taxes), that is without actually selling any of the ores I mined. I actually don't want to flood the market with ore, I'll be producing product and consumables that will be sold (or used myself). I'll be converting a tile to a quanta bathtub just to swim in all the quanta... ?

This does not apply to new TUs placed after the Demeter patch hit. Pre-Demeter tiles have a 14 day no-tax period.

I just paid 60 million quanta in tile taxes, I'll expect to pay significantly more in the future... See the wealth evaporate! ?

You keep forgetting: Time=money, so that time you spent on the game is effectively money you spent on the game. Depending on how much you earn in RL, that can be a little, that can be a lot. But you're equating paying more for getting more out of a service as a negative experience that influences your gameplay experience. How about graphics, if people buy expensive computer hardware they can get a better performance and better graphics, they effectively have a better gameplay experience then others that can't afford that computer hardware. Should we then all have basic graphics and horrible performance to make the baseline equal for everyone? I think not! IF you have 40+ alt accounts, you'll probably have access to every talent at max. Refining/production will probably be maximized for everything, just as with placing structures. I suspect you have dedicated miners, dedicated PVPers, placers, manufacturers. You want to explore it for quanta... With 40 characters? That is a PAIN in the butt with all the logins/vr sessions, that sounds too much like work! 40 characters doing 7 mining charges every day is just 6-7 hours per day of dedicated mini game! Doing the missioning system with 40 characters would have been a pain in the arse using the VR system, running multiple routes and VRing 40 toons in would have been a fulltime job already. That takes dedication, time, and effort to do on a regular/daily basis! What's your problem with that? Is that because you don't have or want to spend money=time on doing that as well? Or do you feel you need to do that to 'compete'? Then the question becomes: Could you compete with the person running a single account mining T3/T4/T5 mega nodes 100 hours a week? I sure as hell couldn't (nor would I want to)! I play my main with three alts, one dedicated ship builder (elements), two dedicated pilots, and my main is the refiner/production/miner character (with a bunch of other talents sprankeld in). Those four did missions, two traded routes at the same time and VRing in to do the drop off and pickup. After I setup proper AP, landing pads, infra, testing, etc. The flying was not that involved (and was working on making it even easier). What took the most effort/time was the VR sessions and the re-logging of characters. I might eventually consider a fifth character. But 40 or more... Hell NO! ? But I pad $80 => €70 per year of game time per character, that's the price of a new computer game these days. Worth it for me at the time at this time in my life, there were times where that absolutely wasn't worth it. Not everyone's circumstances or resources are the same, expecting that they should be is naive imho.

I agree! Time = Quanta BUT... If you have high skills (just as with mining), adjacent tiles, and a strategic setup you can get significantly more ore per minute spend automining then manual mining. There is just a hard cap on how much time you can spend on that per day, which translates into a hardcap of ore per day doing just automining. How many have been mining a million liters per week, and how much time do you spend mining that? And if you're doing mega-nodes, how much time spend finding those (every week)?

Then how would you call the player that has the time/inclination that plays a 100 hours a week due to living on unemployment benefits or being extremely rich? Time to win? Of the two, which one is more iffy? Pay to win or time to win? How about friends to win? Natural to win? Luck to win? There are so many things people can have that an advantage over you, why worry about it? Are you being killed by the alt farms? No.

Can some more folks post specific CPU model numbers instead of just Intel vs. AMD? Over the weekend I'll try to reproduce it with my Intel i7-5820K and AMD 4800U. It might be a generation thing with the AMDs though, I've heard some streamers complaining about massive DU performance issues on their AMD earlier gen. I have to admit that DU performance isn't great on the 4800U, but always thought this was due to the integrated graphics... Very interesting subject btw! I'm also wondering how DU will handle the new Alder Lake big-core/small-core setup.

Already bored with you... On a serious note, something isn't applying in VR sessions when calibrating and starting an MU. Don't know what though. I got about 67% better results when I was there in person. Might be some of the skills, might me the bonuses from the already placed MU with max handling skills.

How does one win at DU? How does one win at EVE? You don't. You can pay all the monies in the world and it won't do anything if you lack the skill/knowledge to use it. If you backed the KS and didn't get that they were copying the EVE concept of training, accounts, PLEX, etc. You always knew it was going to be like this. If only for the Talent training, the alt slow-boat pilots for moving bulk items at an affordable rate, do I need to explain the advantages of alts in pvp/pirating? This is always how it was going to be, you only just realized it.

Why should I enlighten the unconstructive arseholes that are creating a toxic forum and are the cause for my inner arsehole to awaken? You know what! It all sucks, can't get a liter of ore out of the ground if bled on it for hours... Go pickup rocks on Sanctuary for all I care. When I've got my mining operation going, figured out RDMS with the new stuff, I'll talk to some actual nice and non-toxic newbies and veterans alike that want to make some quanta, save some quanta or just want to store their stuff long term without all the hassle of upkeep... Maybe go play a game that makes you a happier less toxic gamer...

That is because it isn't. The limit is much higher if people understand how automining actually works. This forum shows that many don't, most can't seem to do basic math, and just about everyone is making the wildest assumptions that they haven't researched properly and/or haven't actually checked themselves in game...

I'm 45 and mining ore the old way and collecting rocks uses the same dumb button, the left mouse button ? I'm also very disappointed with the removal of the planet mining, that gameplay is now exclusive to asteroids. The scanning/finding of asteroids requires a specific element, that has gotten easier to build from previously. You might want to look at it as a possibility. Games that make huge sweeping changes have the potential to alienate players, so maybe see you around. ?

WTF does it matter? You paid for the KS and got Beta keys. Some Beta keys were also given out to streamers I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong). But does it matter if you have three alts with beta keys or with a paid subscription (I have the later)? Is my subscription now 'free' because I bought it at a lower price then after the patch or compared to someone paying their subscription in the EU? Of course not. People who have money and are willing to spend it on extra DU subscriptions will always be around. There are tons of far richer people that won't ever deem to spend money on DU, because they don't like it or find playing video games a childish waste of time... IF you spend an hour flipping burgers (in most countries) instead of 'working' DU, you can then buy a months subscription... That's true for your main subscription, as well as for alts. It's the other side of the coin that is time, folks that can afford 16 hours per day to spend on DU. You don't want NQ to tell you how you play their game, others don't want YOU to tell them how to play DU either. Alts are a fact of life for games like DU/EVE, life with it. Most people complaining are just sour that they didn't jump on the bandwagon when it got the 'free' beta keys... And if you think that comparing the size of your virtual e-peen is a good idea, get help now, before it's to late! In these games you can compete with some, just not everyone, there is always someone better, more dedicated, luckier, has more friends that help, has more money, has more time, etc.

Some people called the mining you call gameplay also work. Just a different perspective. You can still mine, but you'll have to join a group of asteroid miners and do it in space. You do 10min of rock grabbing and you'll have have a backpack full of T2 ore. Sell it on market, get million(s), buy schematics/T1 ore, build factory, build better stuff, repeat. You should not be rock picking for months. After a week you should be ready to move to Alioth an get more in the 20.000+ ore per day range after some more work/gameplay. I still sometimes pick up rocks because I forgot to do stuf (like bring fuel, scrap or some elements), but avoid it when I can.

Claiming those is easy. With a single character I do about 9 scans an hour, but also claim ~30 tiles an hour. If the automining is a chore, it will be less so on top tier tiles (more ore per tile, more autominers per tile, less moving around, less taxes), not more of a chore. BUT as a solo player you can either: 1.) Exploit it for as long as you can. 2.) Sell it to another player or org. 3.) Rent out the tiles. As for planetary warfare, implementation of that is so far away, that it is not very relevant for the discussion at the moment. The initial details of which as stated are also so full of holes that it isn't feasible as that concept. What kind of or IF we get Planetary warfare at all is totally up for grabs at the moment. I think you should be more worried about DU closing up shop then any future potential PW scenario's. Just look how much 'progress' we've made since beta launch: One step forward, two steps back...

Dear NQ, After reading the patchnotes completely yesterday evening, my head exploded... One small line, has a huge impact: No more VR missions. I'm no objecting to the change itself, I'm objecting to piling it onto Demeter, with the other mountain of high impact changed. And with high impact changes, I mean changes that require a lot of work and/or a complete rethink on how to use something effectively. IF you had any customer related experience as a change manager that's working with customers, you should know that you don't roll out a bunch of high impact changes if you can avoid it at all. Looks like you either don't have a change manager or anyone experienced with customers looking over the changes and evaluating the customer impact... You could have made this change two week earlier or two weeks later, fine! It would have been nice for a heads up ahead of time, but we've already established that what NQ says ahead of time is worth sh!te! So unless that changes, don't bother informing anyone of anything ahead of time. So my DU work day after Demeter launch: Is this thing on? Hello? Everything working? Looks like it... Great job NQ! (prays to the IT gods that this isn't going to change) Ground all trade ships until it's clear Demeter LUA changes didn't break everything. Get Autominer BPs, start factory. OK! (setup beforehand) F! Check factory if everything is actually running, F-ing factory patch bugs! But everything looks fine. Saddle up and go scanning/claiming (setup a TU factory before hand and had a bunch ready). Setup static core factory because I forgot something! (always happens) It's clear LUA changes didn't break (badly), so getting the trading ships (aka. mission runners) ready for launch the next day, because it's time for bed! Then someone mentions that single line in the patch notes. Wait what!?!?! *head explodes* If I had bought my subscription directly from NQ, I would have cancelled right there. If I had already been charged for a year, a ticket to get my money back and if they did not comply, initiated a charge back (service was drastically changed after charging a yearly fee without proper notification). But lucky for NQ, I bought my 4x year time codes via Markee Dragon and I'm not bothering him with this sh!te. So NQ, think twice before even thinking about cutting out the middleman, we actually like the middleman! ? At the moment I REALLY don't like NQ... I run a main with three alts (miner, ship builder, and two pilots), two of them actually fly the missions, the rest just VR in. With this change and no actual change to the trade routes (missions). My profit would drop to less then 15% (over a 85% loss), as costs would stay the same but, the amount of missions I can pickup/return would drop drastically. If I move charcaters around I reduce the loss to around 50%, but that would mean chugging everyone into a ship and with Demeter launching that just can't happen (need to handle the other Demeter things). The end result will be three alts on a ship (sounds like the start of some joke) and a 65% reduction in income. I do see a solution to this issue, but that takes a lot of work to setup with a little additional running costs and maybe a little additional time required to get back to previous earnings. I think of that work as a challenge, the reasons why I play games like DU and EVE. The issue isn't the change itself, it's the change at the same time as a bunch of other changes that take up all my DU playing time (which is already significantly more then most) for the foreseeable future. I can understand that more casual DU players are getting overwhelmed, angry and may even quit. In the end the VR mission change does not do anything to change the mission income stream for the long term for most people. We just have to rethink how we operate those trade routes. What it does bring is a bunch of frustration, which leads to annoyance, which leads to anger, which leads to the dark side.... I understand that some of the changes need to happen at the same time, no problem. But NQ needs to really reevaluate it's change policies, schema and user impact/response. It also needs to review it's communications and dependability of what was said. Both items have been raised before, and from the outside it looks like NQ has done Fnck-all with those issues. In all, Demeter didn't bring any fun new stuff for people to explore, just changes upon changes. Movement in the margins. I'm choosing to see it as a hurdle to overcome, I might not see it so forever, and I know others have not...

I would start by investing more time in math and a calculator before continuing playing DU... ? If you're indeed only getting 20L /h from Sanctuary per autominer (which is significantly less compared to what I saw in PTS), you're still getting 1.920 L /day. A miner will run for longer then a single day though on a mining charge. That also means you can have more then four. After each mining charge expenditure you get a bunch of higher value rocks on the ground, pick those up. There are also more rocks around your tile you can pick up. The T2 ones you can sell for a nice profit (for now), I expect that every 20L T2 rock is worth about 6000+ quanta, a full pack (4000L) would be 1,2+ million quanta. Buy schematics, start building T1 factory, see next item. Your currently working with the mini autominer, there's a bigger T1 Basic Autominer you can build in your factory that has about twice the capacity of the mini autominer. Then you can train your automining skills to get more, for longer and more mining charges per day. You can also try to get/pay someone to place the mining units with the autominer handling skills. After you've build a bunch of basic autominers, build some more, build a couple of territory claim units, save a couple of million quanta from you're daily login and T2 ore sales. Use the shuttle to go to Alioth, claim a tile, place basic autominers, claim the tiles next to it, expand, because for every adjacent tile you get a 20% bonus. It has been calculated (by experts) that with max skills, enough tiles, and strategic use of mining charges you can mine 150.000L/day/character. But certainly not on Sanctuary! And if you think that picking up rocks sucks, it's pretty much what I did the first week on DU over a year ago when the beta started. Side-note: also make a small cargo vehicle on both Sanctuary and Alioth, this will save you a ton of running around!

Sorry, I'm not here to explain economics and game design to you. You can get Quanta for ores, but it is not a Quanta source. You could sell to NPC buy orders (at a third or less of the price then what you can get from players), then that buy order is the Quanta source and not the ore itself. A Quanta source and exit determines inflation or deflation (how much you can buy with your Quanta). The KS title: "Dual Universe :: Civilization Building Sci-Fi MMORPG" Loosing our stuff on the outer planets was always 'sold' during the KS and during the launch of the beta. What wasn't mentioned though was that we could be taxed into oblivion. And I really dislike it! But anyone who thinks that game mechanic will change at this date is very naive! Sure we can complain, we do. But the: "We all can't do x/y/z anymore." Is just a bunch of people saying that they can't do x/y/z anymore in a very specific way.

That is not what I was/am saying. What I am saying is, if you want a single player game, why play a MMO = Massive Multiplayer Online? There are WAY better single player (or even with limited multiplayer) games/experiences out there that do things similar to DU. My mind would boggle if NQ would cater to people that want a single player experience in DU. Keep in mind that I'm not saying solo player, as I'm at my core a solo player in MMOs. But I'm buying tons of stuff from other players, ranging from ore, to elements, to BPs, to scripts, to ships. I risks my ships by flying some of them slow-boat style through pvp space (and yes I've been blown up before). I compete with other players on the markets with certain goods. I solo play, but still interact with other players. Some comments by the previous posters and to a certain extend your own comments, indicate that they do not want that player interaction. Because if you don't want to pay taxes, why pay them? You don't want to auto mine, why auto mine? As noted previously (or elsewhere), someone is complaining about not able to afford their racetracks anymore. When I suggest that some kind soul might offer their swatches of land for those tracks while those kind soul mines there anyway, this offer is not good because of 'trust'. Find someone you do trust and offers you the same deal. If you can't find anyone, live with your choices and lack of trust! If you're too sick to login in three months to add a couple of million to your most important territories, then you have way bigger problems then some virtual losses in a video game. Not saying it doesn't suck. But we could all be hit by a truck tomorrow and for most it won't be relevant anymore what happens in DU after that...

Please understand, this is what I found on PTS during the two test weekends: On just about every tile I had scans for or scanned during the test on Alioth, Madis, Thades and Sanctuary had all four T1 ores, none of T2+, but I heard from others that some of their tiles did have T2+. So the assumption there is that it's rare. On Madis-Thades-Alioth each tile had 500-600 L/h total across the four T1 ores, each ore ranging from 5-450 L/h. Sanctuary had ~410 L/h across all four T1 ores. The moons other moons I looked at had only two T1 ores each, one being dominant (350-450 L/h) and a secondary T1 ore (50-100 L/h), per tile 450-500 L/h total. One of the other planets I mentioned (not saying which one) had on each tile I had scanned the same T1 ore (5-50 l/h), the same T2 ore (110-225 L/h) and the same T3 ore (10-80 L/h), with an average of ~250 L/h average per tile. Other players hinted at some tiles having T4+ ores. On the moons of that planet I found that it had only one T1 ore, the same one on all tiles scanned (300 L/h). On another moon I found the same T2 ore on every tile (90-200 L/h), with the same T1 ore (110-240 L/h) with ~300 L/h total per tile. Also keep in mind that Alioth has almost 260.000 tiles, it's moons (outside of sanctuary) another 29.000 tiles. Madis/Thades with their moons, another 83.000 tiles. The outer planets another almost 440.000 tiles. Over 800.000 tiles total. If every player wanted to auto mine with max skills and daily attendance, the current setup can support almost 25.000 accounts. But not everyone is going to mine with max skills or optimally, so way more then 25k players can be supported. On PTS the safezones around the planets were intact, just the space between them is pvp space. Moving ore from one planet to the other can be safely done via warping, just imagine what the warpcell cost would be for 1.920.000 L Hematite... Slow-boating it between planets takes Time=Quanta and you risk pirates attacking you. Selling your T1 ore on outer planets when you have to cover your warpcell costs is not going to be profitable, especially when the competition is going to slow-boat it... BUT NQ has stated from the beginning (KS and Beta) that those safe zones will eventually be gone, I'm just not seeing that happening anytime soon. I have no magic window into developer minds, I'm still working at pulling NQ personnel through Internet lines... ? But I suspect that from a game design perspective the chosen changes will not live in a vacuum, they'll have consequences. What those consequences will be might be very different from what they and we imagine they'll be. Partly because NQ might not have shared all plans, changes, partly because they can't accurately predict their players reactions ingame to those changes. From my perspective, I see only Sanctuary as a truly persistent safe place for your resources. Any other place will eventually be either in a pvp zone (in a greater or lesser extent) or will be taxed (I doubt space stations will always be exempt, even if NQ currently assures us that they won't be taxed). I don't know if you're familiar with EVE, but everything there is pretty much a consumable. Your ships are just ammunition, you'll loose them eventually, so don't fly what you can't afford to loose. I see DU winding up there eventually, after many, many years of further development. That doesn't mean that until then we can't use/exploit those planets/moons. We can build a city there, I suspect that it'll be safe for years. And when that changes, I expect we'll have a warning way before hand and we would be able to pull back the resources we absolutely don't want to loose. But why worry about what might happen in years?

And they weren't before? Of course they were, you're just used to it! If you think that solo players and casual builders are no longer possible or severely restricted, that speaks more about you, than actual limitations in gameplay. It must be so compfy in your box, that looking outside of it is just not an option... Ore selling to other players is not a Quanta source, a Quanta source is your daily reward, the Quanta you get from running missions, and the items you sell to NPC buy orders). So that Quanta is only moving around in the DU economy, not entering it or exiting it. The problem now is inflation, due to way more Quanta entering the game then leaving it, the same happened on a smaller scale with the NPC buy orders (specifically for components). That is part of why schematics were introduced, the first Quanta sink and a limit on how flexible you are with massive, massive (automated) factories without spending a TON of Quanta. Taxes are a way to drain the Quanta entering from missioning. What I'm noticing that the biggest loudmouths screaming their heads off are also the most unimaginative, inflexible lot that's playing DU. Want to build? Build something small, people want, and sell it. Build something bigger and sell it, etc. Or just find a patron that pays you to build for them with their mats. Want to mine? Join a group of space miners and go asteroid mining. Want to pvp? Join a pirate group. Want to do your own thing without any other player interaction? Go play Minecraft or Space Engineers! This is an MMO. Do you play 'casually'? I don't think you mined a million liters of ore an evening... So why expect that now that you can't planet mine anymore? And yeah, there are different gradations of 'casual' and some only have a few evenings a week to play. They can still play the game, they'll just won't have more then a 5 tiles +1 on sanctuary. If that's not enough, are you really a casual player? I am not happy with all the changes. But I can adapt. I'm not even as bothered by most changes, what I'm extremely worried about is the unreliable statements coming out of NQ, players giving them money for it and basing long term ingame decisions on those unreliable statements. What people also don't seem to get is that the Organizations structure in DU isn't the same one as in other MMOs such as Guilds and Corps. You can be a member of up to five, for a plethora of reasons, what you can do within the org is governed by RDMS, the same goes for org owned tiles, vehicles and structures. Use that! But what I'm mostly hearing "I want to keep my own sandbox!" (aka. tile), "I don't want to share my sandbox with others!", "Owning my own sandbox is too expensive!", "Can't play anymore like I want!". Most of us growing up didn't actually have their own sandbox, we used the one in the communal area or the one at school. If one wanted to dig, one dug. If the other wanted to make a sandcastle, they made a sandcastle. If kids were friendly towards each other, the one digging would fill up the buckets for the one building the sandcastle. The benefit for the one digging was that his hole wouldn't fill in due to their pile of sand getting to big next to the hole they're digging. Maybe look at DU as that same sandbox, you can actually play together in the same sandbox (tile) as others. Don't trust others, fine, find ones you do trust. Don't trust anybody? You're limiting your own play experience and maybe shouldn't be playing a MMO... Edited: apparently there are still NPC buy orders *facepalm!*

With the Demeter changes I suspect that building a player build 'city' might actually be a good idea from a player perspective, as it's not yet possible to run a player owned market (we can sell, but not buy), a close market is a necessity. But I need to plan the 'city', it's either going to be city blocks or one big arse arcology, covering a 7 tile cluster, early estimates would be 1500(+) L cores and hundreds of smaller core static constructs (owned by many, many players). How far from a market would it need to be located for it to not impact market traffic (as in when do those assets stop being loaded into sessions of folks landing at a market)? This also becomes important for spacing other dense structures (space between cities?). Then the question becomes, how much stuff can we build in a relatively concentrated space before it starts crashing clients? Demeter should bring performance increases, how far can we stretch that? What are the plans to increase that for the near future? How bad would a ~1500m tall skyscraper be, consisting of 108 L cores and 150.000+ Glass Panel L, for performance after Demeter is launched? (have to set some goals for myself ? )

Maybe you should speak less and think more... You're making assumptions (mother of all F-ups) based on limited information, you often haven't checked yourself, you misunderstand or just don't understand all the implications of. Then there's the fact that we're basing a lot on the info on PTS, that might be different on release (better, worse, or just different). Based on what I personally checked on PTS: Within Alioth/Madis/Thadis and their moons, you'll have primarily T1 ores, if you're very lucky, maybe some higher tier ores. If you operate there, and only there, you'll have primarily access to T1 ores. But if you go to the outer planets, suddenly T2 and T3 become more abundant. Now if I'm on planet X in pvp space I see access to only three of the T1 ores on that planet and on it's moons. But why would I want to mine T1 ores if I can mine T2 or T3 at a similar rate? Sure I might need 50% more tiles to do that, but those costs are easily outweighed by the gains. So if someone is mining T1 on or around planet X, they aren't exactly working optimally, by a large margin! But I still need those T1 ores, I might get some as byproducts from T2/T3, but that's a very limited supply. On the Alioth/Madis/Thadis planets/moons the T1 is more abundant then compared to the outer planets (more ore can be mined per tile, thus needing less tiles). So folks stuck there (by choice or necessity) will produce the T1 ore for the whole system. And that might be a LOT, but it needs to be exported to the outer planets and most T2+ ores imported from the outer planets. As most people want to optimize their mining, they move to the outer planets to mine T2/T3 ores, so less people mining T1. Also all the infrastructure for moving all those ores between inner and outer planets consumes a TON of resources (fuel/warpcells/repair, ships, containers, etc.). Moving millions of Liters of ore will be expensive, either in time/risk or warpcells. Those resources>ores are consumed, so there will be a demand for them. It all depends on how quickly players adapt (I suspect months, if ever), what their choices are, if they are flexible enough to adapt to the new situation, will there be enough population, will there be enough new players, what will Demeter be actually able to support, etc. A new balance in pricing, ore production, tile ownership, etc. will be established eventually, but that might take a LONG time, because if the people posting in here, discord, reddit, etc. are any indication, people are stubborn as mules and are willing to 'follow the leader' into a bad idea as lemmings (with the 'leader' being the ones that screams the loudest, most often)... There are four major resources in DU: Quanta, ores, time and value added services/products. Quanta is entered into the game through daily login rewards, NPC mission rewards, and NPC buy orders (with the last one no longer being around at the moment). Quanta leaves the game by buying from NPC sell orders, schematics, and now taxes. Ores enter the game through mining, on asteroids or via automining. Ores leave the game by selling them to NPC buy orders, consumption (fuel/warpcores/repair), complete destruction through pvp, and just deleting them from inventory. Time, everything takes time, it's a resource you can only spend once. Earning quanta takes time, mining ores takes time, selling your services/products takes time. Time=Quanta! Value added services/products range from refing ores, making products, upgrading ships/factories with max skills, making designs, making scripts, etc. These take Time, Time=Quanta! I'm seeing so much opportunities with the Demeter launch, it's not funny! Those who adopt early will have way more opportunities then those that wait. Am I willing to share, heck yes! With everybody? Heck no! The loudmouths ruin it for everybody! ?

I made Screenshots form PTS, I uploaded them onto the Discord of Markee Dragon: https://discord.com/channels/103989522454298624/751748638476206161/911327679490453535 There are rumours that what was shown will not be what will be on Demter release. So you might not want to spend tons of quanta on it (yet). I've personally setup a factory line for 5x Uncommon Mining Unit L, I only need to slot in Schematics for the end product and the lines will start production rights away. Worst case scenario I have to change my manufacturing line a little bit, best case, this line can now make Advanced Mining Units L ?