plmkoi

Well if that is the case, sounds like it would be better to just have a rail system implemented into the game. The videos already makes gas very expensive.

Well this doesn't look like it is out of context (in bold first quote), as the entire thread is about "finite currency".  So the part I underlined (2nd quote) is either completely irrelevant to the thread or you really don't know how eve economics work. Your previous 2 posts made me think you did, but then you quoted me saying "players can earn other ways". The money has to come from a source and that would be a faucet, which as of right now,  even with the recent podcasts, mainly ore buy orders and possibly npc missions. This sounds like an environment that people who plays the market in Eve can abuse in the deflationary environment to the detriment of the player base and I concur with you abusing it, as I will too. This is what I was referring to with the "fear of finite currency over infinite" as the only people that makes this argument comes from theme park mmo's (which I think you would agree). So I think you might have misunderstood my initial reply out of context when you were quoting me. As I think the the only source of injecting cash into the game via ore buy orders is ludicrous if not retarded to put it bluntly. 
 
Also you were responding to me and yes they said only ore buy orders at the time for a faucet. People aren't going to trade currency if it is hard to come by and the same people on this thread that are complaining about infinite currency, are also going to be the same people complaining about having to mine a freighters worth of gold for 10 Quanta bucks. The previous owner of those 10 Quanta bucks is also going to be the trader that is just flipping all the goods and making that currency easy, if not just use the Nova bucks to buy it.
 
As for the guy you referenced and depending on the time frame, it came from either mission runners or bounties. Him getting isk for plex/gtc's is just transferring isk from one player to another and you are correct, it was abuse-able until CCP cocked it up by making everything plex. So now you can see everything in a chart and easily tell if there was/is price manipulation. But with that mothership he can make more in comparison to other activities if he wasn't retarded. It was until the Oct or Nov that the bounty faucet was axed by CCP.
 
 
No, it would never be good on paper as you want inflation so people keeps spending money, as DeviseDevine said it leads to hoarding. The point of currency is that it is a fiat a medium for the exchange of goods/services and if it rarer then the gold or copper, then what is the point of having the currency. In my opinion, I think what everyone misunderstands, is that theme park mmo's it really is irrelevant if you have run away inflation. Every real economy has inflation, but they keep it capped at a certain % and I am sure someone who is much better at economics can explain that as I am no market guru. I am just now finally mastering market pvp, which sadly this game is already snuffing out.   
I don't think a lot of the points are worth merit, as it looks like one person before I first posted actually has an idea of how insane it is that the studio is solely relying on "npc buy orders". I believe that in game economics is semi complex as the real economy does require a lot of learning in my opinion.  If you know how to read the Eve Economic report you can actually get a detailed blue print on top of the Eve wiki of how they jump started their economy post launch. 
 
I don't think they are going to stick to closely to lore unless they want to have their "civ building game" to fail.  As for lore items, I would think that it would provide old tech or cool trinkets that one can sell on the market. It would create n new occupation called "Archaeological theft".
Giving players free quanta is not going to be game breaking, as the game requires a sub and I honestly believe if you are going to spend money, it is going to be with their "Nova bucks". As for exploits/abuse it is always going to happen, but the difference is that they aren't taking the "alpha clone" route. Coming back to Eve now it is almost day/night how things are both positive and negative (more on the latter imo). 
 
As for making quanta more difficult I can guarantee you that players won't try and game the system, it is going to happen even if Quanta took only 30 secs of effort. It will only kill the game like other pvp sand box mmo's as people won't be able to replace their losses. If you make the game more difficult to get Quanta, then those same people are going to have to grind more to get the currency to purchase whatever goods/services they want. The chances of them getting that quanta gets closer to impossible when people would rarely spend it as they expect the money to appreciate in value. Why would I spend 1 quanta for 100 ore blocks when I can get maybe 150 if I wait a little longer? Well it is going to suck for that person who can't afford "nova bucks" when it takes 1 hour to mine 20 units of ore.
 
I am going to add this video link so everyone at least gets on the same page before adding to this thread. 

Well if you are talking about tools they have in Eve, like Titans and Super Carriers, they can add them in and it won't break the game possibly ever. How so? Or am I daft? Well my assumption is the requirement of actual bodies for ship modules, since you need actual ships to man the turrets and crew to do repairs or put out fire etc. The balancing factor is efficiency. Using this as a reference, if you are running a large organization, of lets say 10k players, is it smarter to use your limited resources for 1 titan measuring +13k meters or say 1 super carrier for +5k meters/30 battleships at 1600 meters/few squad of bombers? Or just 60 1600m  battleships? If a battle occurs, is it wise to send your only combat asset of a titan measuring +13k meters and hope the turrets kill all 60 battleships moving at the same time before they are destroyed?  Or a super carrier with a few squadrons of bombers + 30 battleships?  
 
Another factor that you have to consider is the actual resources required and to build it in secret without info being leaked out. In this example here and here, these are instances of where info of one in the oven led to a formation of multiple people to siege a system and  latter the result of sinking your alliance resources into one ship and losing it. Keep in mind that a titan can be completed by a few individuals in Eve compared to Dual Universe, where you have get multiple people to participate. The most powerful ship in our world is a carrier and it has something called a "carrier strike group" and it is undisputed that it only take a lone submarine to sink a $13 billion investment. 
 
The last major point, even if they put in a ship as big as a titan (13k meters) in alpha 3, it is unlikely we will see even capital fight with ships the size of 5k meters for a hot minute. From my view it has to do with automation of industry. In Eve online it is easy to mass produce ships as as your only bottleneck was the human assets (F1 monkey) & ore with some logistical issues. DU on the other hand, not only do you have to hand create the ship (blueprint), mine the ore by hand, build infrastructure that can support the ship, build said ship by hand, have the necessary fuel/ammo + logistical backbone to support said ship, and also have enough resources to actually support & defend the ship (destroyers, cruisers, frigs, and etc). We haven't even gotten into the insane world of espionage that can have major detrimental impact in construction in DU. 
 
I would be surprised if there was a capital ship in pvp within the first year or two, barring any changes in later expansions that help alleviate the critical issues in automation & construction. Military strategy has make the option viable compared to the alternatives and I don't see it in the release state of the game. I also caution people against making one for the foreseeable future unless an expansion makes them viable. Bigger doesn't necessarily translate to something that is better.
 

Well in my view, I think ramming isn't something to fret about over the studio deciding that by some e-honor or chivalry they are going to stick to a strict schedule and not give this title more time. This game is a bit more complex then Eve and they haven't put out a lot of info that seems relevant to the fundamental building blocks that can sustain anything bigger then a small organization. With the current info in industry I suspect that it is just going to be similar to Rust with small clans running around or just massive blobs that will put treaties in place to not attack each other. The latter killing the hope that you can get free marketing of large events like CCP has.
 
Well if you ever get a chance to play Eve (shameless plug check my profile) try out the industry side of things. You will see that mining "was"/is easy. Once you have done it, you can easily see how one can just start 10 accounts and mine enough to get a fleet of 30  battleships. Everything in Eve is automated when it comes to industry, but this studio is strict on the manual mining (which is questionable imo). In "Eve" industry you only need one person to have the blue print, resources, and the station to manufacture stuff on. The equation can change a little depending on the goods where it is simple (T1 modules & ships) to challenging (combat boosters, T2, T3, Rigs, and now multi plasmids). If an alliance needs miners for lets say  the size of 1k-2k people, 50 people even if that needs to be care bears, the rest being the foot soldiers. In Eve you don't really need even that as you can go through contractors that can sell you stuff on agreed on price from high sec. 
 
While I don't mind mining, I understand that it  isn't everyone's cup of tea and I am experiencing this disgust with trading in Eve. I don't find it fun .01 isking people to death as it is a grind due to my time zone limitations, the need to ensure that my orders will beat theirs by at least 30 min after they changed it is tiring. The only rare times the "market pvp" is a little rewarding is when the industrialists say "fuck it" and cash out of the market or just stop updating their orders for the remainder of the 90 days. "Traders" on the other hand will do it regularly and will not be deterred and will chug along.
 
They would have to in my opinion create tools that allowed it to be easier for people to mine resources at an "industrial scale" which I believe is the term I should have emphasized. It seems to me that the mining aspect for DU is akin to a cottage industry.
 
"This point, I concede to you fairly easily because you reminded me of experiences that completely confirm this." 
I prefer not "concede" but more of "valid point" or some other term. I don't like forum pvp and it does sound from my limited perception to be similar. I look at forums as place of discussion to refine the understanding of view points and ideas. I look at it as a place where people can throw out a point and it can be analyzed, like I go to a major city and decide ass less chaps is the way to go and people can tell me why this is bad idea vs saying it is great idea and I get yelled at for right to stay silent with my face in the dirty street. So I would learn more and also get more experience as everyone has something valuable to say, just maybe not all the time. As someone told me "sometimes one can't smell their own brand and that is why you ask other people". It was a ref to body odor, but I believe it applies to ideas as well. 
 
I do agree that it would make sense for miners trying to get small resources they could get a small mining barge, but doesn't this sound more akin to a cottage industry? I can't say I know the resource costs of ships and the repairs for it in pvp for DU, but ask yourself if this is sustainable for a large organization. Now hopefully DU has "nicer" people that come into the game, but if there is "Eve" like players, instead then you have Code that targets miners in high security space. As for player controlled space, you see this on a daily basis with Rorqual capital industrial ships, where people lose a few every day. To put this into perspective, the avg price is what 5 billion isk? Well if you converted that it with plex, you get roughly $40.00 ships people lose everyday to do industrial level mining to feed those forges. These losses are sustainable only because of the industrial level mining. Here are other examples people post online of  killing mining fleets: Bomber Bar, GS locust fleet, and finally GS again (prob NSFW). This is just a handful and the "locust fleet" is what Goons call their Rorqual mining fleets, they strip all resources in a system, not sure how long as I am not affiliated with any of the null blocks. That locust fleet dread bomb costed them probably $143k in losses if that even mattered. Now knowing that alliances lose these expensive ships will hopefully put into perspective the cost of large organizations just in term of resources if you just surf the losses from alliances.
 
As for battleships & carriers, are you saying that it is economically feasible to make a hybrid industrial combat ship over one that specializes in one or the other? Some factors one has to consider if location on the map, players we have, type of organizations, what we have to get from the main markets, and what is the attrition rate between convoy ops? I am not on DU and so I am unable to give a better answer then this as I don't know the costs of ships and how skill trees will take place, let alone the map. Just remember that if I wanted to attack an organizations "center of gravity" the biggest marks are the resource generation and logistics as this game is fundamentally a attrition based game. 
 
I only know little of the Eve side of logistics as I always try to learn from other people. The only thing I know for sure, is that it burns a lot of people out traveling back and fourth with goods. The activity can take up hours of your time to get to alliance territory and so if you don't enjoy traveling in a ship it can be boring. Larger the organization the more supply runs a person is going to have to make and if the ships are not industrial focused, it can take even more possibly. I will find out later this year once I can fly a freighter around and hauling goods myself. 
 
1) You are correct, alliances aren't going to give up on markets and you can see that in the Delve and Drone region markets in Eve. I don't because I am not allowed access to said region and would be killed on site as I am not affiliated with either organizations. So I can either be a spy or someone that can awox their fleets. The difference is that the alliances themselves usually don't stock the market and relies on enterprising individuals that transports the goods from secured space and sell it for the max margin allowed by alliance policies. People in the alliance benefits from easier access to goods, make passive income for transporting said goods, and the entity from taxes. 
 
Like I said in another thread, people has this weird idea that it is easy to implement a NRDS policy. The entities that are foolish enough to adopt it are also going to be the ones that suffer the dread bombing of the locust fleet video. That day 1 old character just sitting  there, is the person just afking? Or is it basically a security cam of what is going on in the area? I see it more rational to just be wary of insider threats over the additional baggage of dealing with randoms that can feed intel to your enemies. I can assure you that the alliances makes their money not from the markets in null, but the markets in empire. 
 
2) Yea they could, but the bigger reason is more likely because of risk aversion. 
 
The only thing I can say for certain in regards to markets is that it is hard to build up one. Molden Heath, Bleak lands, Black Rise, Placid, Great Wildlands, and etc takes a lot of work and that is hauling said items in bulk and all the pieces. All pieces being, if I sell amarr ships I need to not only sell the gun modules that go for said ship, but also propulsion, armor, capacitor modules and this also includes the ammo. Or why would a person bother buying said ship in that region to begin with? These regions are dangerous and so I do it solo, but lets say an organization is what I am under. Are people willing to escort me 8 times a week +25 jumps, every week for free? If I were to get an escort it would have to be 5-10 at least as anything less is pointless as people in those region go in groups at the bare minimum of 3 and usually with combat battle cruisers if not T2/faction ships.
 
Yes, I could pay them, but in most cases, profit margins are <80%. I could just run npc missions and make more money for the effort as I have to compete with other traders. These markets are under npc control aka empire high/low sec or null in some cases not under player control. Exception being of course the Great Wildlands as you still have to deal with the power brokers in that region of npc space. I am sure people played escort missions in mmo's, I wonder how fun it would be if people had to ferry ships back and forth those long distances that 50% of the time nothing happens. How likely is a player going to want to stick with the organization much less the game if your limited 3-5 hours 75% of that was spent watching a freighter move from point a to b. 
 
I prefer the distances as yes it may suck, but it caps the entities in my opinion to some degree. CCP has removed a lot of the caps that prevented large power blocs from running rampant with industry and logistics. Which is why there is still a lot of people whining on reddit and sometimes the forums.
 
 Yes, meta will play a key role, but I think this discussion has ballooned past ramming to the crux of what I see as major problems that the studio has to somehow address. I think my piece in nothing about ramming at this point, but how is DU going to be a "civilization building mmo" they are advertising themselves to be? As a large organization these are some enormous hurdles just like it is for the smaller ones. I don't see how one is going to open a market for everyone when a small entity of 50 people can take advantage of this weakness and possibly make a devastating attack. In eve it is irrelevant short an insider threat that removes sov or more strategic assets. But here in DU it seems things that are considered tactical assets in Eve with the expectations it will  be lost is at the strategic level in DU. 
 
Everyone here is talking about stuff you hear on Eve of large markets, capital ship battles, large organizations that you hear about in Eve. Well how does this game give the fundamental features to achieve that before the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th expansion? I am skeptical it will be in the base game before final launch, which is next year?
You have a cottage mining industry trying to feed a massive production industry. So you can achieve producing a lot of ships if you can overcome the major bottle neck of resource collection.  Large logistical hurdles because you are not only trying to supply your organization, but also a free market. Have fun telling players that they are pulling security or hauling stuff in a video game that might feel akin to work with no pay.  Like I said before in other threads. A lot of the stuff DU is trying to do, Eve has already done and each expansion they made a lot of mistakes and some good choices. The only difference between the features DU is advertising short of voxels/ship design etc you can already do it in Eve to some degree. 
 
 
 

Well there is a game that had a password to utilize the jump after you have the password to access the star base and so if they don't do something similar it would be surprising. 
The same jump bridges also required fuel per jump activation and had to be powered by a star base structure in itself also had to be fueled which was expended by the hour.