Deacon Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I believe SWG had, and the EMU's now have tab targeting. You press tab to cycle to the next target .. you can only shoot if you have a target, and its in range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I believe SWG had, and the EMU's now have tab targeting. You press tab to cycle to the next target .. you can only shoot if you have a target, and its in range. Again, the tab refers to a stat based combat and a "dice roll". The tab-cycling came later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwingz Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 You can have it both ways, in both Defiance and Tabula Rasa... Man I loved Tabula Rasa. Didnt care too much for Defiance but you make a good point. If the combat in DU resembles something like we had in TR I would be so friggin happy. Its still a TAB based system but it felt a lot more interactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Man I loved Tabula Rasa. Didnt care too much for Defiance but you make a good point. If the combat in DU resembles something like we had in TR I would be so friggin happy. Its still a TAB based system but it felt a lot more interactive. Well, yes, that's actually Active Lock-On Tab-targeting in Tabula Rasa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwingz Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Well, yes, that's actually Active Lock-On Tab-targeting in Tabula Rasa. Indeed it is. When I think about the game being in first person, the idea of the "traditional" WoW like tab target combat doesnt seem to fit. Standing still waiting on cast bars in first person is perhaps not the most engaging. Speculation FTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Indeed it is. When I think about the game being in first person, the idea of the "traditional" WoW like tab target combat doesnt seem to fit. Standing still waiting on cast bars in first person is perhaps not the most engaging. Speculation FTW. Well, you don't need to stand still to cast anymore in WoW. That was a very old coding issue with relaying information on the server regarding locations / orientation and preparing for damage calculations. The reason many skills in WoW have a casting time, is simply due to the meta-game and how melee classes work by this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwingz Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Well, you don't need to stand still to cast anymore in WoW. That was a very old coding issue with relaying information on the server regarding locations / orientation and preparing for damage calculations. The reason many skills in WoW have a casting time, is simply due to the meta-game and how melee classes work by this point. Oh I see. You learn something new every day. I confess to never having played WoW.???? I was playing Anarchy Online in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flockh Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 They have been pretty clear about it in their AMA: "It's too soon to give a lot of details, but here are the basics: what we can say is that it will be much more about tactics than reflexes, in part due to the fact that targets will have to be locked and then fired upon. This won't change as it is a technical constraint to make large-scale battles possible." https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/841-ask-us-anything-event/ It's disappointing but understandable. They are going for the constraints of WoW and the likes to enable larger scale battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beodrick Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Interested to see how this turns out. I will be cool with whatever the devs decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Again, the tab refers to a stat based combat and a "dice roll". The tab-cycling came later. (Again - definitions drift. Tab-targeting is now what you call tab-cycling. Doesn't matter what the meaning might have been in the 80s. The devs consistently say "lock and fire".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danvain Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I personally hope there is never anything remotely FPS in this game. I just don't have the quick twitch skills to compete in that style of fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornflakes Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 For instance, in NMS, there seems to be a lock assist. I don't have to be precise about my aim to lock onto a target, but I do have to move the reticle reasonably close by. With tab-target, the enemy could be behind me. I don't have to aim at all. I just hit the tab key and cycle through whatever is near me. Just because you have to select targets to engage them doesnt mean that all your weapons have a full 4pi firing angle. It just means that you dont have to manually point your mouse at the right spot to hit. Decoupling controlling weapons and controlling your ship as a whole. Making the game about positioning yourself smartly instead of the mechanical action of pointing your weapon at the right pixel. Weapons will likely still have limited arcs in which they can engage. Dygz_Briarthorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 @Cornflakes Yep. I agree with what you wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttley Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I personally hope there is never anything remotely FPS in this game. I just don't have the quick twitch skills to compete in that style of fighting. Being on the wrong side of 30 I've noticed that my reactions have slowed. I'm pretty much cannon fodder these days and I used to be good, very good at FPS like Wolfenstein:ET. So in a sense, I don't want this game to focus too heavily on reaction times because I know it will lead to frustration for me as I'm thumped again and again by kids a 1/3 my age. Yet if I'm looking at the bigger picture, I think that it would be a massive opportunity lost if all battles are all ultimately determined by stats - which is my experience of MMORPGS. Now maybe I'm oversimplifying and not doing justice to the skill level that goes into this type combat but in a game that promotes limitless gameplay (erroneously as it happens but we can let that marketing speak slide) I think anything but FPS dynamics is an unwelcome limitation on gameplay. But If it's not possible to implement FPS dynamics or just prohibitively difficult to solve then I guess I'll have to suck it up. But hopefully captaintwerkmotor is correct and for smaller battles, we still have a more traditional FPS dynamic, even if the cost is watching my old, bullet-riddled corpse being repeatedly teabagged by kids with better reflexes but less class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizardoftrash Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I'm interested to see how tab targetting affects custom ships, and if we see voxel deformation as a product of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Well, I found the action combat of Neverwinter Online to be a lot of fun. Action combat but not at the level of an FPS. It's somewhere in the middle. Dual Universe is an RPG that has a skill tree. There's no point in having an RPG skill tree if character combat skills are trumped by player twitch skills. Dual Universe isn't an FPS. Anaximander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Well, I found the action combat of Neverwinter Online to be a lot of fun. Action combat but not at the level of an FPS. It's somewhere in the middle. Dual Universe is an RPG that has a skill tree. There's no point in having an RPG skill tree if character combat skills are trumped by player twitch skills. Dual Universe isn't an FPS. True, but the problem is people don't want slugfests of people standing still. They want to have to take cover or outmaneuver an enemy. Height and length from an enemy can be factors for the game's combat, to which I would have no problem with if the game had NO VEHICLES or voxels at all. In order for a player to be able to shoot at voxels, the game needs a "scan, lock, fire" mechanism, similar to how the "dig tool" works on the gameplay videos. THAT combat gameplay, would be what is called an ACTIVE lock-on. You have to click the left mouse button every time to fire the gun, each time you "scan, lock, fire". It's not FPS, but it's not a point and click adventure like WoW either And no, given the tab-targeting nature of the lock-on system, it still relies on stats for everything from hit-chance to armor-penetration, all of which can be altered with skills training and / or ammo types. So, we also get that sweet sweet sensation of elitism for collecting all the nice clothes. If Neverwinter is like TERA Online, then you get the idea of what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwingz Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Being on the wrong side of 30 I've noticed that my reactions have slowed... Thats just life Muttley. Their time will come too. But I just wanted to say I'm happy we didnt loose you. That must be an awesome meditation cave. Muttley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I'm not concerned about the underlying mechanics of how damage is calculated I just want engaging game play. If I'm playing in first person and I'm using a ranged weapon I just want to point and shoot, the game should handle the targeting and all that stuff for me same as if I was flying a fighter it should just target whatever is in front of me so when I shoot it intuitively shoots the thing I expect it too. If I have to make some kind of selection by tabbing through available enemies that's super lame and frustrating. I don't want to play counterstrike, I just don't want to think to much about the game mechanics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttley Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Well, I found the action combat of Neverwinter Online to be a lot of fun. Action combat but not at the level of an FPS. It's somewhere in the middle. Dual Universe is an RPG that has a skill tree. There's no point in having an RPG skill tree if character combat skills are trumped by player twitch skills. Dual Universe isn't an FPS. For sure it's not an FPS. But my hope was that it wasn't going to be a traditional anything. Rather, that it could pick and choose between genres and smush them together. For example, you see this in tower defence games that have a FPS element on top of your more traditional tower defence game. A more pointed example would be the forthcoming Bannerlord game. Like it's predecessors it incorporates many different game types including MMOFPS (first person slasher). So technical considerations aside, I think that it can be done and done successfully. I will say that if it doesn't happen then I guess that Star Citizen and Squadron 42 will scratch that FPS itch. Incidentally, I think that the Warband community (at least those in-game) is amongst the most toxic and unpleasant gaming community that I've had the misfortune of playing alongside. One good thing about DU is that NQ will be in complete control of the server and they get to keep their own house in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendlytyrant03 Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I wish I could have hand held weapons in DU so that I can start mass sh- I mean help defend my country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaximander Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I wish I could have hand held weapons in DU so that I can start mass sh- I mean help defend my country There will be Avatar VS Avatar combat, with handheld weaponry. :V We can fu-- I mean, protect the people, together! friendlytyrant03 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 An MMORPG is different than an MMOFPS. "Traditional" isn't necessarily a factor. But, the primary difference between an RPG and an FPS is that an RPG focuses on the skills of the character while an FPS focuses on the skills of the player. In an RPG, my character skills can compensate for my lack or precise aiming in an FPS. That could be via more skills that rely on AoEs or skills that provide Stealth or Roots or Snares, etc. In No Man's Sky, I think Phase Cannon upgrades provide soft-locks that aren't available without the upgrades. I like the various upgrades I can add to my multi-tool for greater combat efficiency with the Mining Beam and especially the variety of ways I can alter the speed or impact or field of damage with the Bolt Caster. Dual Universe will have a "lock and fire" system. I haven't heard the devs discuss how we will aim to achieve that lock. They haven't mentioned tabbing through nearby enemies to lock a target. These days, many people prefer action combat aiming like that in NWO or even Wildstar over tab-targeting. Violet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwingz Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 an RPG focuses on the skills of the character while an FPS focuses on the skills of the player. In an RPG, my character skills can compensate for my lack or precise aiming in an FPS.. Not to nit-pick but its not that your skills compensate. Usually in an RPG its the character stats that dictate how effective you and your skills are. Who knows how exactly combat will work in DU but JC said he wants a tactical element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dygz_Briarthorn Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 That's still saying that character skills compensate for player skills. I as a player may suck at hiding or detecting players who are hiding. But, character skills in an RPG can compensate for that. My Bounty Hunter character in an RPG should have Stealth skills and Detection skills. Same thing for aiming. If my character's role is to be a Sniper, my character should have the skills that make my character excel at Sniping, even if I as a player don't have those skills. As a player, I may suck at deciphering languages, but in an RPG a Scholar/Wizard/Linguist/Diplomat should have skills for Decipher Language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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