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Political/Economical Management


MasteredRed
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Hello whoever may be reading this!(Hopefully developers)

 

I'll get to the point I suppose. When looking at some of the promises that were given, you mentioned that players would be the political and economical structures. Now, if you don't have any plans or would like to take some ideas, I've got some right here.

 

* First off, if we are to reflect off of the real world, political and economical structures have stability depending on the actions, resources or whatever is put into them. Therefor, if for instance you have a bad setup for a government, it might be able to fall. I know it sounds difficult to imagine, but if you were to put that risk of your government falling if you didn't manage it enough, it could add an exciting or dangerous element to the game. Another way to put it is guilds or as such. They are simply groups of people, not bound by a faction or otherwise higher overarching theme. This is an uninteresting way to manage civilizations, where the risks are much smaller. However, in a political environment, if things weren't managed correctly, things might begin to fail. I don't have any idea's behind what would cause the system or trigger it to fail, but it might be something to consider.

 

* Secondly, let's think about political and economics as being tied. If you have a government, you need a stable economy. I'm simply pointing out a co-entanglement of these two very important systems. As well, if you have a stable and prosperous economy, it might be possible to improve your political reign, expand your civilization or as such because of it.

 

*Third off, is the system of banks. Now, I'm pretty sure that banks are going to be needed if you are to expand your government. Now, a large discussion should be how they are used. If banks are used improperly or are not set up well, it may be impossible for a government to survive and a player to prosper, so this should be taken into account or have a default system for banking. If not, there are plenty of other creative options as well.

 

*Finally, there is the discussion of currency. Now, I'm sure you've thought of this well and true but I'd just like to point out some thoughts. A global currency is probably one of the easiest options to make, but if you are to have an economics system, then it might be a good idea to think about this. If each government has it's own economic system, then the global currency is really easy to use and not at all interesting in my opinion. So, I have constructed this idea. If it were possible to create a number of base currencies, and allow governments to "lend" or "barrow" off them. Then, if it becomes possible, allow them to create their own in the future, with a possible way to convert currencies.

 

That's just some idea's I've come up with. Again, I can't say what you are going to do but there are some really good ideas. Maybe I helped you out, maybe I created a new game mechanic. I can't really say but I can't wait to see the final product! For the players who also take a look at this because I know you will, please think about these aspects of the game so that it might have more to it than build, explore and stuff.

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Lets not make our space sim, like Real life systems... - I am sure the developers have taken their detailed looks at this and in their blog say they have templates from that you can build systems as above state... That is my current idea of it.

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Welcome to the forums, nice long post for your first post :)

 

However, I don't see a point in the post, it feels to me as a description of what the real world works like and not a method of applying that to the DU universe. Unless you mean adding in methods to manage different sections of politics and economy above what is described which would be in an effort to match what the real world is?.

 

I just feel that your post is requesting limitations to the proposed system of DU's emergent game play.

 

Currently if i want to set up any kind of politics and laws in a region i simply have to dictate that that is the way i want this region to work, and if you decide to go against the laws then i will offer you punishment in return.

 

That in essence offers enough freedom to run any kind of political agenda that you want. If you want all ships to be green, then police it and force people to make them green.

If you want everyone to pay for items in Stone Blocks, then make it so in your area.

 

I feel that putting in a way to manage any political system or economic system in the game would restrict it to what the devs decide to put in and not allow people to create there own methods and systems. Yes you could still do it, but why do it different that what is already decided by the game itself ? Why would i try to follow 'Route B' when 'Route A' is already paved ?

 

I don't know if i might have understood your post correctly, but that is my two cents. If i've misinterpreted anything, just let me know and i'll adjust my response :)

 

Other than that, welcome to DU, i hope you enjoy your stay here.

 

nora,

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The Rights and Duty Management System in this game, along with the power of tags. Allows players to delegate their powers downward. Combining this effect with a thing called Legates allows players to forge just about any political system they can imagine.

 

The element of needing to be careful while designing a organisation already exists. To say, if you make an organisation (corp / guild) and its democratic by nature.

 

You may in fact be the legate who owns the whole thing. However you have it set to automatically delegate your power's to make changes to the organisation to whomever is elected Prime Minister.

The players of your' organisation decide that another player would make a better Prime Minister than you, and you lose effective control over the organisation.

 

You might set it up so that control over your Legate shares is transferred to the new Prime Minister, or that you retain them but are unable to use any powers or stop the new Prime Minister from transferring their control.

 

 

The aspects of politics and economics is something that will for sure be very intertwined. For only a organisation with a strong economy and income will be able to afford to reimburse players for lost ships.

Any organisation that wants to become a major player will need to think about forging the economy within their territory so that it provides their players with opportunities to buy and sell their goods for profit. Unless of course by some chance players make a functional communist state.

 

 

Even if there are not hard coded mechanics, with tags and scripting I am hoping to experiment with the creation of various financial tools for players to toy with, in Cinderfall. Commodities, Stocks, Daily Options, or anything similar we can make work, however its hard to tell what will and won't be possible at this point. The whole community is surviving on a few drops of information.

 

Welcome to the forums MasteredRed and Linxie

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I appreciate all your comments. I was more or less concerned with the ideas and fundamentals of how something such as a high ranking political government, possibly controlling a trade or military planet would be able to form. I was sure that the devs had put thought into this but without further information on this matter, I was wondering what might happen. However, I do think this was a good first post, introducing my main concerns and getting information. Thank you all and I hope to see you on the forums and later in game when that does eventually happen.

 

Also Saffi. I've seen you on around the forums and am eager to see what you will come up with as well. I read your topic relating to gameplay mechanics such as gathering. I found it interesting.

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Hello MasteredRed, welcome to the forums!  You bring up some very interesting points here.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by having governments collapse.  Any governments that arise in game will made up of real players.  They can organise themselves however they wish, they can create roles within it, and people can be assigned to those roles however the players decide, but every single aspect will be made up of real players.  If there's a president, that person will be a real player, if there's an election, real players will be the voters.  So can a government collapse?  Absolutely!  For any number of reasons and in any number of ways.  No mechanics are needed for collapse because the players themselves will be the ones toppling the government.  Here's a link to the devblog on the topic https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/03/20/organizations-build-your-corporation-faction-nation-or-empire/

 

Your second point about government and economy being linked is absolutely true.  But again, there aren't any mechanics required to implement it.  The system of government is devised and evolved and consists of real players, and the economy is entirely player driven.  Devblog on the economy here: https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/12/04/from-barter-to-market-economy/

 

In the real world, the primary role that people perceive banks to have is storage of money.  In the game this won't be necessary (thankfully) because all currency will just be stored on the server as a number assigned to an entity (i.e. a player or an organisation).  However, banks might still have a role.  An entity with a well defended base might create a vault where others can store their valuables for a fee.  Or an entity that is good at profiting by investing in the market might offer an interest rate in exchange for liquid currency.  What makes these investments safe is the tagging system which you can read about here https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/05/21/rights-duties-management-system/#more-458 Note that any "banks" that arise will be created, defined and run entirely by real players.

 

This game is the story of a civilisation rebuilding itself, and virtually every aspect you can think of will be defined by real players cooperating and competng with one another.  Except one: the monetary system, which will be predefined.  There will be one global currency and the supply of that currency will be controlled by game mechanics (sources and sinks) defined by the devs.

 

A while back I asked NQ whether they'd considered allowing players to create their own currencies.  The response was that they needed to ensure that the monetary system was a firm grounding on which to build a player led economy.  The other concern was that it's not clear whether defining a monetary system would be fun in an MMO.  Which is a fair concern to have.  Most people take our monetary system as given... in fact most people don't even know how it works and don't want to know!  You can find the conversation on this thread https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/21-devblog-from-barter-to-market-economy/

 

I wrote the above in bits and pieces when I had time during the day.  I realise others have responded now, but thought I'd go ahead and post anyway.  Hopefully it has some value.

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Hello MasteredRed, welcome to the forums!  You bring up some very interesting points here.
 
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by having governments collapse.  Any governments that arise in game will made up of real players.  They can organise themselves however they wish, they can create roles within it, and people can be assigned to those roles however the players decide, but every single aspect will be made up of real players.  If there's a president, that person will be a real player, if there's an election, real players will be the voters.  So can a government collapse?  Absolutely!  For any number of reasons and in any number of ways.  No mechanics are needed for collapse because the players themselves will be the ones toppling the government.  Here's a link to the devblog on the topic https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/03/20/organizations-build-your-corporation-faction-nation-or-empire/
 
Your second point about government and economy being linked is absolutely true.  But again, there aren't any mechanics required to given it.  The system of government is devised, evolved and consisted of real players, and economy is entirely player driven.  Devblog on the economy here: https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/12/04/from-barter-to-market-economy/
 
In the real world, the primary role that people perceive banks to have is storage of money.  In the game this won't be necessary (thankfully) because all currency will just be stored on the server as a number assigned to an entity (i.e. a player or an organisation).  However, banks might still have a role.  An entity with a well defended base might create a vault where others can store their valuables for a fee.  Or an entity that is good at profiting by investing in the market might offer an interest rate in exchange for liquid currency.  What makes these investments safe is the tagging system which you can read about here   Note that any "banks" that arise will be created, defined and run entirely by real players.
 
This game is the story of a civilisation rebuilding itself, and virtually every aspect you can think of will be defined by real players cooperating and competng with one another.  Except one: the monetary system, which will be predefined.  There will be one global currency and the supply of that currency will be controlled by game mechanics (sources and sinks) defined by the devs.
 
A while back I asked the whether they'd considered allowing players to create their own currencies.  The response was that they needed to ensure that the monetary system was a firm grounding on which to build a player led economy.  The other concern was that it's not clear whether defining a monetary system would be fun in an MMO.  Which is a fair concern to have.  Most people take our monetary system as given... in fact most people don't even know how it works and don't want to know!  You can find the conversation on this thread https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/21-devblog-from-barter-to-market-economy/
 
I wrote the above in bits and pieces when I had time during the day.  I realise others have responded now, but thought I'd go ahead and post anyway.  Hopefully it has some value.

 

Thank you for this Satori. I am eager to read up on the information you have provided me. This has given me a good starting point so that I can hopefully make more accurate and useful assumptions in the future.

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Thank you for this Satori. I am eager to read up on the information you have provided me. This has given me a good starting point so that I can hopefully make more accurate and useful assumptions in the future.

 

No problem.  I'm really excited by the potential this game has and have really high hopes.  Now that the first trailer is out it's great to see others like yourself joining in with ideas :)

 

BTW I accidentally missed out a link, but I've edited it in now.  Convenience link https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2015/05/21/rights-duties-management-system/#more-458.  Enjoy!

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