0something0
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Posts posted by 0something0
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Automation =! Singleplayer
player interaction and automation aren't mutually exclusive. For example, parts could have a "maintenance" where parts wear down or break randomly. Or have it so say I want to make a automated factory that makes a ship from scratch. So, I need to set up machines to mine the ores, refine the ore, shape the ore into parts, and assemble the ship. All these process would require different people with different expertise to make it work.
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11 hours ago, GunDeva said:
LOL is this still going on even after NQ has stated it will be very limited on what drones and AI can do in the game they even have LORE / STORY on why its not used, and then they stated they want a player interactive and immerse mmo game. It seems like some people don't want to be craftsmen and do the work themselves they would rather have a drone or AI pump out thousands or more units like there own personal factory or mine tones of ore while they sleep which seems more like a solo game to me and not very players interactive or immerse.
If you had a near terminator experience would you still use AI's ? =) Reminds me of the guy that wanted to piolet and be able to fire all the weapons of the death star by himself at one time but see nothing wrong with that ? =)
"Near terminator experience"
If you read the lore carefully you will see that it was the PEOPLE, not the ROBOTS who rebeled. #AiDidNothingWrong and the game is set a couple generations after the whole thing happened. Its mostly the social stigma against ai, not the threat of ai themselves that are preventing the use of them.
As for the whole "dont want to he ctaftsmen", you people dont appreciate the art of making the whole thing work. Security is also a concern and its very difficult to program automated turrets. Besides, there can be limits so one person cant build large structures or machines in reasonable amounts of time, or so they emit large amounts of heat which require vulnerable facilities to get rid of. Besides, this kind of "factory" automation only requires that robots can craft and interact with inventory constructs.
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I disagree with the whole notion of
"Its a big universe"
Because while the universe is big, most of it is empty space you can't do much with. I also learned that its a good assumption that someone WILL find you from Minecraft factions because sooner or later, I would find my base wrecked. I also don't think relying on cities for protection is a good idea as they would be hot targets for people looking to get quick loot.
I also disagree with the notiom that war NEEDS to be an essential part of the economy as there are other sources of demand for constructs like habitation and civilisn transportation.
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"Luckily"? I will confess that I believe in a fully automated economy IRL so hopefully you guys will understand where I am coming from. But there are diffrences in DU and in real life that I will have to recognize - notably the fact that people just appear without an established place in society, and that we are building up a society without *any* centralized control, differently from a real life space colony or in general.
What if instead of limiting the software we limited the hardware? So we got limited processing power, storage, RAM, etc as well as large amounts of power draw and heat for the in-game computers? Basically limit the game to vaccum tubes and very early transistor technology.
On the original subject though, we are going to need methods of interacting with different voxels and functional elements(i,.e. storage containers). I think NQ has said they don't plan to add in drill elements, automated or not (i.e. no drilling ships).
The lack of advanced automation will probably encourage more multiboxxing as programs can be written using xdotool and a VM with windows and GPU passthrough to turn yourself into a scripted robot.
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So, Aerospikes would be the best for having less nosiey rockets?
I don't think being able to customize engine sound would be very immersive - the engine creates noise because of its processes, not because it has a speaker. What we should be able to do is costume-design engines which changes the sound as a byproduct of the change in engine shape, structure, etc. Yes, player-made engines in a player-made universe.
protip: replace "realistic" with "immersive" to get more support for your realism-based ideas. Also, try to connect that with the concept of "player-run universe".
Maybe something like this but perhaps less daunting. Or, all these things could be running in the background but you have to click "Advanced Mode" for this kinds of things to show up. Game is Children of a Dead Earth FYI.
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I don't like the argument of "Planets are really big". There will be areas of ore with useful deposits which will be limited. Assuming a density of 100 ppm as "viable ore concentrations", which is generous for copper according to University of Arizona
as they labeled areas with above 200 ppm copper as ore deposits.
Since according to Wolfram Mathematica(attribution at bottom)
the average copper concentration in Earth's crust is 0.0068%, or 68 ppm, and we will assume that the same applies for Alioth. Since they have stated that there will be a max dig limit, lets just say 5 km deep, since that is also Earth's crust thickness under the oceans. So, the volume of the crust will be around 245,571 km^3 and there would be approx. 16.7 km^3 of copper. But here is the problem. We are only considering "viable ore concentrations" as useful for obvious reasons. Presumably, areas with lower ore concentrations will have areas of higher ppm in it, so lets just assume that the average viable ore deposite's concentration is 200 ppm, and half of the ore is in said viable deposits. Then, only around 8.5 km^3 of copper will be in economic access, but since the ore only has a concentration of 200 ppm, 0.02%, or 5000:1 dirt/rock to copper ratio. So, multiplying 8.5 km^3 by 5000, we get 42,500 km^3 of ore that will have to be dug through.
The conclusion is that at realistic ore concentrations, don't even try. Why did I even waste my time on this? You can plug in different ore concentrations with this.
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5 hours ago, Lethys said:
Yeah then ask 1000randoms to play a game where they can't do anything sophisticated if they don't have friends who can code or Code themselves. Mhm, very fun. For everyone /shrug
You can do more in DU than ever before in a game and can already do cool stuff with those limits (which are needed) and still complain? Oooooook
Please, don't ever design a game. If you do, Tell me which so i don't buy it accidently
Or, buy the automation-produced products with their starting funds(I don't like the idea of the Novark market - I think the starting funds is a better way to go since it keeps the GDP per capita of the entire playerbase at a even level). The players with the brains should succeed, not the players with the most RL money or the most game time(and therefore most trained skills). Automation will allow new players to compete with the veterans and give power to the individual and enable more freedom.
As for the limits, I think there should be very little. It is currently known that we can make stuff move and control things like lights and doors, but the exact extent of the limits are not known( well, for me at least. ) The big limitation to doing stuff like automated factories is the lack of modules that allow machines to modify voxels(nanoformers for robots).
There are still ways to make automation multiplayer-balanced, for example, making them easily hackable without proper player-made security, EMP weaponry to cripple automated systems, and massive power draw on such automated systems.
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10 hours ago, Lethys said:
What you want is an unfun and plain boring game for everyone.
Instead NQ gives players a FUN part to do If they wish to do it (lua) but you don't HAVE to.
It's a game after all.
"unfun and plain boring"
WRONG. Your interests may differ from mine, but personally, I am into coding and that kinda stuff. I would like for coding, logic circuits, robotics, etc to be a large part of the game.
"If they wish to do it (lua)"
which is purposely severely limited
"It's a game after all"
Which should appeal to a wide playerbase. The game just shouldn't appeal to EVE players alone. Besides, I could make a game supposedly set in the present day but trebuchets and spears as the main weapons and say "its a game". The point is that immersion is a thing and it would be weird if there was no player-made automation but there was firmware-based automation.
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6 hours ago, Felonu said:
Fully automated building could actually hurt the economy, and JC said they would put limits on how you automate your factories. I don’t think there are any details yet released.
Well experts in real life are not sure what automation would do to the economy(I , for one, support fully automated luxury space post-scarcity economy) so lets just add automation and see what happens and make our predictions off that! (though to be fair for that to be valid there needs to be an economy with a lot of manual labor and see how automation will affect it so automation need to be added after launch to more accuratly simulate the effects of it to the economy.)
4 hours ago, Omfgreenhair said:That might be a little discouraging. It wouldn't make much sense in a SciFi esque game to do a lot of manual labor. Automation in the refining process would have a logical place in the order of things. It could be immersion breaking to not to.
One thing I find hypocritical is that there will be no doubt a lot of automation in the devices that we use like fly-by-wire in cockpits, automatic rod controls in nuclear reactors, automatic engine controlls, higher level languages, etc. If NQ wanted to truely elimnate automation, all those processes should be done by people. Then we got Dune Online. Without the Spice. But I digress. The thing is that automation is heavily looked down around here, espacially by a certain motor.
- Atmosph3rik and Whalekit
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Just now, Zamarus said:
Smelling some NDA here.
Right now (and it might change in the future): 200 Km/h in atmosphere at sea level (meaning more at high altitude) and 20,000 Km/h in space
— Dual Universe (@dualuniverse) June 9, 2017
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My org is all about doing crazy things in DU. One of the projects I have in mind is to go as fast as possible, or if the 20,000 km/h limit stays, to create a ship that will reach that limit in the shortest amount of time.
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The answer probably is "until floating-point errors become so bad the game crashes." It depends on how the server files are stored really. A quick google search for "ntfs max partition size" shows
QuoteFor example, using 64 KB clusters, the maximum size Windows XP NTFS volume is 256 TB minus 64 KB. Using the default cluster size of 4 KB, the maximum NTFS volume size is 16 TB minus 4 KB.
-WikipediaThe servers will probably use some form of Linux, which often use ext4 nowadays. A quick google search for "ext4 max partition size" shows similar results.
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Thx for telling me.
Press F to pay respects:
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
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A couple month ago, I remember seeing a banner setting in my profile to add pictures and/or text under all of my posts, but I can't find it now. I probably just can't find it, considering it was hard to find the last time around.
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Author's Note: This short story is by no means complete, and probably is riddled with plot holes and errors that I originally intended to fix. But alas, the submission date has passed and I have chosen to release this story to the world. I thought NQ’s lore was geocentric and I wanted to explore the possibility of what happens offworld, to extraterrestrial peoples. In my version of the lore, the colonists manage to win their freedom and the right to robotics/AI from the UEF, creating a civilization around the outer planets and possibly creating a “fusion torch”(See Isaac Arthur’s “Colonizing Jupiter” for more information) to actually push Jupiter/Saturn to another planet. This is actually possible within a reasonable amount of time with automation! However, Earth degenerates into a backwaters ****hole at the same time. In the lore,a “technological renaissance” is described at the early 23rd century which allowed humanity to finally build the ark ships. However, due to the reactionary UEF and the independent organizations that was actually administering over the arkships(much like the public-private partnerships of today) thanks to the lack of large-scale political structure other then the aforementioned reactionaries, a particularly radical libertarian and conservative group was controlling the Novark and what to put in the Novark database. This act of revisionist history allowed for such a geocentric history in the archives and the lack of advanced Arkship technologies. But I digress. Coming back to the people living offworld, they gave the UEF the technologies needed for the arkships and the Novark group covered it up, wanting to preserve their ideologies. Their libertarian ideology also explains such an illogical way of colonizing another solar system, instead of mining asteroids to obtain the resources needed to establish a functioning civilization(see Isaac Arthur’s Early Interstellar Colonies for details, and yes, I do like his Youtube channel). Overall, the reason my “headcanon” so to speak is so different from the official canon is because of Novark’s revisionist history.
One final (unrelated) note: The Novark Safe Zone force field could have acted as a whipple shield, assuming the Novark was in a traditional rocket configuration(There is no way the Novark alone made the journey: there has to be external fuel tanks to get enough delta-V to accelerate to 0.995c and decelerate. But it is a different story if it was in a configuration like the ISV Venture Star or the Valkyrie, which makes sense since it takes more mass for the same material to withstand compressive stress(being pushed) then tensile stress(being pulled).
-0something0
"Standing inside the transparent dome and looking out at the red dust of the great deserts of Mars. I took in the sky and the pale blue dot we call “Earth”. I was nervous: I had a speech to give to the Trans-Ares Assembly, the organization created to handle things between colonies and to give a stronger voice for the colonies. Abruptly, my phone rang, notifying me of a text message stating: “Mr. Cerman, the assembly begins in 10 minutes”. I hastily walked out the dome..."
The partial story here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BbWH45pNfJiM-hXtrOqg1B_0dCBxYAVTDkK8w8HHf8Q/edit?usp=sharing
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oh gosh, appreantly, Capt.TwerkMotor is one of those He3 truthers. Well, here goes nothing...
Why not have both He3 and D-T/D-D fusion? Freedom of choice right? Besides, all the big research projects are focusing on D-T fusion nowadays.
LENR could be an interesting thing to see in-game. But so are EMdrives. There also is that Lockheed Martin project to create a truck-sized fusion reactor. But they also had projects resaulting in a crappy and overpriced fighter jet and a *nonexistant* and overpriced rocket. Reminds me of a certain man's lie....
I hear that cosmic rays colliding with the atmostphere creates antimatter which is then captured by magnetic fields around Earth, Jupiter, and Saturn. We could potentially harvest antimatter with that.
Of course, the big problem with all this is the fact that there literally is a continous nuclear explosion at the back of the rocket which can be used as a WMD and NQ did say that there will not be any WMDs in the game.
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Perhaps trees could serve as an exception to the whole "not falling voxels" thing? But theen I can see someone using trees to lag out the server, basically a form of DoS.
What if trees were a type of player? They would basically be nonmoving players with a tree model and an inventory full of wood. Trees are living things like players after all.
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4 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:
You missed the point of performance.
Ahhh. Antimatter probably will still have its place in warfare and combat, even if rather niche.
Back to the main point, its just cooler and more sci-fi if you know that you are handling real substances with real properties with real names. DU also could be used as a learning tool too, and I'm totally not advocating for more realism to get myself the upper hand over people who don't know how this stuff works.
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10 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:
Actually, you hit a peak ratio of performance at Hellium-3.
Antimatter?
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Of course, there are reaction wheels which a certain motor can explain better...
Hopefully there are wheel saturation in game?
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NQ said that the game will have lots of types of fuels, so why not have fuels that are in real life?
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You can use voxels to create a "case" for the engines.
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The thing about heat is that it is not a niche feature. Reentry heat asaide, there are various places where heat would come into play such as radiators in space and thermal laser damage.
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10 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:
If what you mean is "I want to control a construct from the other side of the galaxy", NQ has stated they may allow for it, but at a delayed clock, i.e. updating the construct to act with how the in-game updates work on partitino to partition basis. That's more or less, the in-game equivalent of "Spped of Light" Lag. The updates 10 AUs away, are delayed updates.
Yes, this is what I meant.
Quote4. Encryption today is why you can't just "point your antenna" to the sky and receiving free Satellite TV. What you proposed - at best - would jam the receiver, effectivelly rendering it impossible to function, like a primitive DoS attack.
5. I am intrigued by your insistence on making drone armies happen.You ser, are a baller.Players should build their cybersecurity like they build most other things. What if I got my fully automated luxury space drone army unleashed to rampage across the system but it happened to have a bunch of security flaws like not being encrypted cuz I'm a bad programmer so other people hack into it to kill me?
*whispers* mind you I only said 1 active vessel at a time
This kind of stuff promotes emergent gameplay (probably) and cyberwarfare could add a whole new dimension to the game, especially when combined with more physical forms of warfare like economic (crypto stealing), espionage (stealing encryption keys), or just plain old attacking relays and other comms infastrucfure.
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RL industries have fared just fine even when much of their market is civilian. There will be demend for products without war thanks to civlian companies looking to expand their assets and people crashing their ships and such. This is especially true if machines have a limited lifespan.