blazemonger

This is really not surprising nor out of the ordinary. Actually it's pretty standard. And the forums are really not all that active as far as number of active users. There is a fairly small amount of active users with the vast majority either lurking of not visiting on a regular basis.

Yes, it is. Holding up completing and releasing a game to accommodate a small group of potential players who will not be able to generate the revenue to cover the cost is bad business however. I doubt anyone here can make you understand your wish, no matter how understandable, is both unreasonable and not a viable business decision to make for NQ for the very simple reason that the user base simply is not there.. I have nothing more to add so I'll be moving away from the thread..

It is yes (as I mentioned a number of time), but supporting Linux (or Mac) it's not as easy as flipping a switch, specifically with DX12 or Vulkan.

Mac market is even smaller as the game will require dedicated GFX and most macs use the built in gfx.. BTW, I watched the clips you posted. I knew the Linustech one already and it's actually pretty good while it really works against your argument since it explains very well how using Vulkan (and DX12) requires more work/attention = development time for game developers (with better end results yes). The argument here is really the same as before as switching would seriously delay game development and require a lot of work for (again) what really is an insignificant gain in potential users from the Linux (and Mac) side of the world. The German clip was rather ehrm.. interesting and sorry, I can't take this guy serious. And yes, I am fluent in German so I get what is is saying perfectly fine and it's mostly a nonsense and biased rant from a nerd with his tool clips hung around his waste doing a presentation.

What you seem to consistently ignore or not understand is that there is no potential revenue from the Linux user base as for NQ to support those users they will have to invest more than they will recoup. So supporting Linux will be at a loss. As I mentioned previously, once the game is released and NQ could free resources to work on, maintain and support a Linux cient, sure. Adding resources or moving them is not a viable option as it will impact far more backers than it would draw in and cost more than it can bring in to say the least.

Let me just be very clear, I am not against a Linux client but feel that it's just not a viable option prior to full release. If after the game is out and running NQ finds the time and resources to develop a Linux client then why not. The point raised earlier that NQ should not set expectations for this before they can commit to it is spot on IMO.

I am talking about the cost to NQ for adding devs for a Linux client plus supporting it. I'd also like to know what 3 staff game you are trying to compare to DU as far as development requirements.. And no, a Linux support pack can never come at the same cost as a Windows supporter pack unless you again are saying that you get your support and the Windows supporters should pay for it. Linux support is excessively more expensive as it is a lot of investment for a extremely small target audience which will never be recouped through these users.

So you still get an envelope with your salary in cash from your employer instead of having it electronically transferred to your bankaccount? The idea that Quanta and/or DAC would need to be carried on your person is just silly.

You would have to find thousands of players to work for you..

Add to that support staff and you are looking at around a conservative 200K/yr for what will not exceed 4% of the user base (very optimistic number). The Linux userbase simply is not there to cover those cost and I'm not even including their share of servercost. So realisticly, unless you are expecting me to fund your desire to game on Linux it's not viable.

What do you think/expect is needed for development of an end user client and then support/maintain it? Do you have any ideas on this?

Love how the objective of OP went from 'let me put my money where my mouth is' to NQ should start work on supporting Linux now, and if that means they stay in Alpha/Beta longer I'd prefer that. Bottom line is you expect those who have no interest in a niche OS being supported to both wait longer and basically pay for it.

Not talking about he cost of the fundraiser, the cost of porting, maintaining and supporting a Linux client would not be covered by the amount of revenue Linux users will bring in, thus it would be a loss and require to be carried/covered by those who do not need it. You can feel however/believe whatever you want about Linux, you can't realistically expect others who have no interest in Linux as a desktop/gaming platform to carry the cost of supporting it for you. And no, some devs using Linux at the workplace does not mean it's easy or 'cheap' to develop an end user Linux client, maintain it and support it. I use Linux every day, it manager and controls just about everything that goes on on my home network except for my router solution. I prefer it over Windows server for its simplicity and yes, it helps it comes free. I use Bash shell as integrated in Windows 10 daily for a number of jobs I need done because it is the best tool for the job. Outside of some scripting and programming jobs I would not consider using Linux for any productivity jobs I do or to play games. I find it interesting you seem to have signed up to the forum only to (immediately and fairly aggressively) evangelise and advocate a Linux client more than have a genuine interest in the game. The sense you seem to have a built in dislike for Windows which seems based on old, outdated and likely misplaced distrust is amusing to me as is the sense your home situation would be more secure by choosing Linux with a main argument it's open source. But this argument is both pointless and irrelevant so let's agree to disagree and move on.

offtopic and irrelevant to this thread

lol Sorry, that's just too funny. Some of the most harmful general security flaws of the past years, impacting many millions of users originated from 'open source' code. That you want to argue for Linux is fine and if direct support for Linux happened, great for the Linux users out there. But don't drag these nonsense arguments into these conversations. The one thing that triggers me is the seemingly never ending drive from Linux users to start by defending and evangelising their OS and the need for it to be supported.

So now you are suggesting NQ should actually develop on Linux and then port to Windows? I'm sorry, but you really have no idea what impact your suggesting has as far as resources and cost on a project like this. I find it 'interesting' that you come in and immediately start (as in with the intent to) evangelizing and advocating Linux. Then, when you encounter an argument go into the usual 'lace the general and overall uninformed if not incorrect/outdated/debunked arguments with some personal jabs for good measure'. While I understand your eagerness to get support for your choice of desktop OS/platform it is a fact of life that by making your choice you have placed yourself in a very small usergroup. Linux has no viable user base for a relative niche project like this where the development platform and method was decided years ago. Coming in with a call for NQ to provide a crowdfunding to support Linux is at best pretentious. Go HERE and contact the people in the thread on how to work on getting the game running in WINE. There is a few people there who have actual access to the game so they may be able to help/support once you come on board, provided you intend to do so.

Not going to go into a bash fest as it's not needed but this is really incorrect and hopelessly outdated. I boot from a USB drive and install Windows in one go, no need to enter a license code, no need get extra drivers and available updates are pulled in as we go (i7 7700, 1080ti, USB audio). But to the issue at hand.. and to wrap my comments on this. As long as linux support does not in any way delay or draw resources from main development I should and could not care less. I know the engine supports Linux and I know devs use it so sometime in the future, when the game has been released, sure why not. The reason why I would expect this to wait until then is simple, despite being often loud the installed base as far as consumer desktop based Linux systems is extremely small and on top of that wildly fragmented and diverse in distros and configurations. There is not 'one Linux', there are way more than a handful most of which will require specific and direct support for how they would work with and handle the code. Support for Linux is very costly and time consuming, I would not want to see NQ pull resources to provide an very unbalanced amount of support for a very tiny segment of potential users. Again, if you as a community can make it work then great. If eventually NQ can spend time to support you without compromising main stream Windows support, then fine.

I know all this and as said, if the Linux Community can make the game work at a reasonable performance level then great. NQ has made it very clear there are no plans to support Linux directly and sure, this may change in the future once the game is released, has matured somewhat and the resources can be freed up to do so. Asking for NQ to set up a crowdfunding to provide a Linux port is IMO just silly and shows a lack of understanding what that would really entail and cost. I basically put my comments in because frankly I had a good laugh reading the propaganda links that were posted..

If the Linux community can make DU run while maintaining performance then great, good for those who choose to go that route. NQ should IMO stay far away from Linux as it is really not worthwhile for them to pursue and no, the Linux community would not be able to fund this (and NQ probably would not let them either), not even close. I think you vastly underestimate the cost of what you are asking. I think you overestimate the marketshare for linux users gaming on Wine. It would not be needed to go Vulkan though as the existing engine support openGL/Linux just fine. Valve tried to push Linux as a gaming platform, it's just not going to work. NQ has been very clear DU is Windows only with no plans to support other platforms and seeing how minute these other platforms are as far as user base goes (and probably even smaller where gaming is concerned) that is the right call. Since you linked it and this brought it up; The linked post of 'linux statistics' is an interesting read, especially how the author tries to spin number to make it appear they indicate that Linux and Mac user are more likely to buy/play games and how he eventually comes to a 50-25-25 pie chart (for a fairly low number of sales on Humble indie bundles where many people just buy it for very little because they can) is an amazing example of data manipulation and clever placement of unrelated and meaningless pie charts where the desired outcome determines the way the path to it is set up and 'explained'. The article is in fact an infomercial from a game developer leading into the announcement of their next release. Clever but obviously not objective nor truthful as it is quite possibly a paid for piece. As this is published on Kotaku that's not really surprising though. While I personally fail to see the point in putting this much effort into getting games to run while all you need to do is install/dual boot Windows is just silly, if the Linux community is up for it and make this happen then good for you. A simple one time investment in a copy of Windows would be cheaper, more effective and way easier than having to fund a port and guess what, your next desired game is all ready to go once you have this set up.

We'll see.. meanwhile this is going way off topic so let's leave it and allow the thread to get back on..

I find it hard to believe any one person would be able to crash markets in EVE, you can impact prices and drive demand sure, but crash? not happening. IMO NQ has been really strong on the player driven aspect of the game. They have said and should initially help the economy along and will do so by starting of using NPC traders but these should eventually fade out and leave only actual players. I doubt that NQ will directly change or interfere on the markets, that would go against the very vision they are trying to create.

While there is similarities, there are more differences really. Basically in EVE lore you could compare DU as the moment humans came through the EVE gate and it collapsed behind them .. So now what... There is no knowledge of star systems, you are in the one you entered in. There is no map, no factions, no developed ships or infrastructure. You start literally from scratch, building your community and world around you as you go. DU has the potential of EVE but will go much. much deeper as there is no preset/predefined ships, stations and structures. Players design and build it all themselves. In EVE you 'play' a specific type of person, a capsuleer, you never see the people living and working on the planets. in DU you are the people on the planets and you can go wherever you want do whatever yo need to.

The whole point here is that you should not have to transport DAC to store or use it. It is an account bound commodity which only becomes an in game one once you bring it in to the game. As long as I do not it should be untouchable by anyone but me and I should have the ability to add DAC I buy in game to this stack to safeguard it as well.

I do not need to travel to my bank to make payments or invest money, I can do so online. Why should I need to fly my money or bonds to a distant system in a space game? It would be silly and nonsense only intended to provide more pointless incentive for ganking and eeleet peeveepee. This game is not about that so I expect this will be handled properly by NQ.

DAC will certainly become a goto item to 'store' excess cash in game. I fully intend to use it as a savings mechanism (like I do in EVE with PLEX) and sell one or more off when needed. IF NQ were to allow full loot of your DAC stack even when it's not in your (local) inventory that would be bad. If there is no way for me to store DAC in a way it can't be accessed directly ingame (and thus not be looted by destroying a construct) that would be another bad design choice.